Replies

1. 
   _mj_ | Oct 23, 2019 10:56am | #1

   Router is a good idea, I don't think you need to go 2+ HP though. With a slot cutting bit and a jig it can double as a biscuit joiner. Get something that wiil accept 1/2" shank bits.

   Guide track for your circ saw will get you through what sound like mostly plywood projects. Kreg makes a nice one for about $150. You can save the cash and make your own zero-clearance guide out of plywood:
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIeIZdrbz-Y

   Get the compressor and nailers before the sale ends.

   I have a cheap-ass dowel jig that works fine enough for the light use it gets.

   If you have cash left over a drill press will make you happy. Used is great if you can find one, do some garage sailing.

   Good hearing protection is a must, and the determination to use it all the time. (Yes, I have tinnitus and it sucks.)

2. 
   dadthemetal | Oct 23, 2019 06:30pm | #2

   In my opinion, it depends on what you will be doing. I work almost exclusively with hardwood so the table saw was the very first thing I bought, quickly followed by a jointer and a planer. It sounds like this is what you are going to be doing (coffee tables, pic frames, etc) so, table saw, jointer, planer, miter saw, router, in that order. And I'll agree with _MJ_ 100% on protective gear (eyes and lungs too!), they are not optional. At this early stage get yourself a shop vac but always use a good quality mask too.

3. 
   user-6001446 | Oct 23, 2019 10:25pm | #3

   Hi New Woodworker,
   I second the opinion on it depends on what you will be building. Given your budget you are going to want to buy tools only as you need them. Based on what you have conveyed, here are some thoughts based on my experience:
   - Do you know someone who has a table saw, perhaps? If you do and they will let you use it occasionally, I might suggest you hold off on purchasing one and save for a saw more suitable for woodworking. Maybe keep an eye out for a used one. For what you want to build, except mitered picture frames, you might be able to do most of it with your circular saw and a jig saw. I would recommend you buy perhaps a couple of very good blades for your circular saw - a combination blade (a finishing blade, not a framing blade) and maybe a blade for sheet goods depending on whether that material plays into your project designs. As MJ says above, you can make your own guide(s). However, the easiest, most accurate way to make a guide is to know someone who has a (well aligned, accurate) table saw or a track saw and cut at least the guide fence piece on that so your guide is true.
   - For the jig saw, you can get a very good corded one for much less than $130, but understand you are trying to leverage your batteries. You may really want to consider comparing corded models capability/price. I would recommend a jig saw stay on your list. Look for jig saw blade sets on sale in the upcoming holiday season that include "fine or extra fine" wood cutting blades in the pack.
   - If the air compressor w/nailer is going to help do double duty with home improvement/maintenance than its a good purchase. But, for what you list as near future projects, you could get by without it in terms of thinking purely your wood shop
   - I think your router pick is a good one, e.g. the plunge base will give you a lot of capability. Keep in mind you are going to need to budget for bits. I have a slot cutter bit set for three different biscuit sizes, I think it was maybe $30+ on sale. You will need straight bit(s) for rabbets/dados and tenons. You'll probably want a round over bit, and perhaps a flush cutting bit. You will want an upcut spiral bit for mortises. Other than a few very basic bits, I would recommend you buy bits only as you need them for a project.
   - I have a Kreg jig as I've used it to build closet boxes w/drawers and cabinets. Its not my favorite joint either, but it does have some advantages at times and it is easy. If you can borrow your buddy's, keep doing that when you need it, maybe buy him a new bit if you use it often. Keep in mind, you could get their small clamp on, single hole model jig for about $20 and have the capability - it just takes longer. If you build a bunch of cabinets the larger table jigs make faster work of it. One alternative joinery method is a biscuit joiner. As I mentioned, you can use a slot cutter router bit, but the biscuit joiner tool has some advantages in certain situations.
   - You don't mention if you have a shop vac. You are probably going to want one when you start making sawdust.
   - You mention you have basic home improvement tools and mention squares and chisels. Again, depending on what level of craftsmanship you want to achieve, you might need to upgrade to a more accurate combination square....many combination squares from big box stores are again OK for carpentry, but not for furniture building. Even with dados/rabbets cut with a router, you might need to clean up a joint or square off a stopped dado with a chisel. You are going to want your chisels sharp, so you are going to need a sharpening system - you might want to just start with sandpaper. I would recommend a honing guide - you could start with a basic one ( I think its called the "Eclipse" model, about $12).
   - Also on the hand tool front, again depending on what your projects entail, you might want to consider a block plane at some point - I would start with a low angle model or even an "apron" model and would urge you to get a high quality tool here, not one from a box store. A very handy, versatile tool for sure if you keep it sharp.

4. 
   chelor | Oct 23, 2019 11:06pm | #4

   I would just add that a compressor and nail or brad guns would not be high on my list. I'd spend the money elsewhere. You can always drive a nail with a hammer and nail set. A bandsaw would be high on my list, you can cut joinery, rip boards, cut curves.

5. 
   rob_ss | Oct 24, 2019 06:30am | #5

   Yay - that is just how I got started.
   Be careful, it's addictive...

   I started like you, buying a lot of tools and I made a few mistakes.

   Best thing to do is NOT spend your money until you need to. There's always a sale on somewhere. Buy only what you need for the project you are doing today. That way you will always have needed the tool.

   Given the work you intend to do, you already have all the tools you need to make that with square edges, so here's my two-pennorth as to how you might go about improving.

   Make sure you buy a good continuous diamond sharpening stone and a honing guide for planes and chisels first. Without that the hobby is no fun.
   $115 for the stone (double sided 300 and 1000 grit) and $13 for the guide (will do until you can afford Veritas' excellent offering) Make do with wet and dry paper on glass if you can't afford the stone, but it's so worth it. Yes, finer is better, but for now, start with something you will never not need. You can use this stone to keep your finer whetstone flat when you buy one later. BUY THE STONE.

   Adding curves to your work will need a jigsaw. Whilst cordless is nice, it will not see much work. Stick to a cheap one - $32 buys a black and decker corded item which will do what you need. Blades are not free so don't neglect a good multipack of blades - $11 - will let you work out which works best for you. Unless you are a pro, or need to cut curves a long way from power you will not likely see enough use from a cordless jigsaw to justify the cost. Buy an extension cord and put the rest to a bandsaw.

   The router is a great start so I'll spend $190 on that, but you'll need some bits - I suggest a kit of bits. They are usually poor quality, but you quickly work out which ones you use often and can buy better then. I get great results from cheapo bits for most work. $35 for the bits in a set. A 15 bit set will usually have most bits you will need to get started and you can expand from there. You will also use ALL of theose 15 bits at some point. None will be left longing to be used. You also need a slot cutter for biscuits - it's a great way to join MDF to wood $17 You will also need ear defenders and goggles, and preferably a dust mask if you don't already have them.

   So:

   $ 128 for the sharpening gear
   $ 43 for the jigsaw and blades
   $ 242 for the router and bits

   That will allow you $87 left over to buy clamps, glue, biscuits and something nice for your wife. Or an old vacuum cleaner to pick up the mess you made with the router!

   As for pocket holes, you can drill them freehand if you don't mind them being a bit different. I don't use them, preferring floating tenons in routed slots (can't face the price of a Domino), biscuits (so easy) or traditional joinery.

   I'd also buy a 14" bandsaw before I bought a tablesaw. You'll end up wanting both, but the bandsaw is more versatile.
   Tablesaw or bandsaw first is always a conundrum. Bandsaw is good for curves and veneers. Also top pick for dimensioning stock but you'll need to be able to plane it after. There is NOTHING wrong with a cheap power planer, but nothing more satisfying than gliding a smoothing plane to get fine shavings with some nice music in the background...

   A compressor and guns is of little use for most basic work - nice to have but perhaps down the line. Get the attachment for bikes and car tyres too. Nice. Mine sees very little use in proper work, but is very handy for tacking jigs together. Unless you have a really big framing job coming up, I'd spend the money on something else.

6. 
   Deleted | Oct 24, 2019 10:48am | #6

   “[Deleted]”

7. 
   user-4002380 | Oct 24, 2019 10:58am | #7

   Thank you for the responses!

   I have rethought a few things based on them.

   I'm going to skip the compressor for now as it's not an immediate need.

   I found a used PC 690 1.75hp router on FB Marketplace for $50 that I'm going to pick up to get me started and will build a table for it.

   I'm going to go with a more budget friendly corded jigsaw instead.

   And the biggest change; I'm back to looking at table saws. It will be a need long term and just makes sense to get now.

   I found a Hitachi C10RJ on FB for $350. Looks like I can get a new one from Amazon or Lowes (price matched) for $399 with a 2 year warranty. Big Sky Tools has a reconditioned (grade A) model currently on sale for $169 ($254 shipped) with a 1 year manufacturer warranty.

   Does anyone have any experience with the Hitachi? I really like the looks of it especially compared to the Dewalt DWE7491RS which is very similar but is $599 new.

   Big Sky seems legit from what I can tell but that deal is almost too good to be true... Does anyone have experience buying reconditioned from them?

8. 
   user-6822566 | Oct 25, 2019 04:03am | #8

   Three years ago I was in the same fix. I had a good corded circular saw and put a carbide Diablo on it, and had a pancake compressor and brad nailer that I picked up at a Sears store liquidation. That was enough to get me started cutting and nailing 3/4" T&G ash boards to panel the walls of4 a future shop room. From there I moved forward on two parallel courses. I began buying power tools. Also, I began learning about hand tools from excellent You Tube teachers. That led to buying hand tools, mostly 80-100 year old Stanley planes on EBay and elsewhere. I learned that the most important wood shop skill is sharpening. Whether using a Dewalt thickness planer or a Stanley Bedrock #4 hand plane, super sharpness is essential. You can watch videos about how to use power jointers or a Stanley #8 jointer hand plane or Sheffield steel chisels, but you'll quit trying to build stuff if you are frustrated by tools that aren't super sharp (that is, won't shave the hair off your arm). So, my advice would be to fast track your sharpening skills with diamond stones. As you move along, a DeWalt corded jobsite table saw will suit your needs for a long time and can be adjusted to perfect blade perpendicularity with a little patience. Milwaukee and DeWalt compete at the top of the cordless tool market. Pick one brand and stick with that brand's tools and batteries. Check out on-line sellers of reconditioned tools such as CPO and even Home Depot. For large corded tools such as band saw, jointer, cabinet table saw, compare the major brands and don't forget the excellent machines by Grizzly. Rig up a dust collection system with a shop vac, and always wear a dust mask with power equipment. You can grow into as many tools as space and budget allow. But remember that a dull tool is dangerous and worse than no tool at all.

9. 
   user-6956435 | Oct 25, 2019 04:23pm | #9

   Just realize that no matter what you do or how hard you work at it, the tools you will end up buying if you get deep into this hobby will cost far more than the retail price of everything you end up making from them.

   Just saying...

10. 
    _mj_ | Oct 25, 2019 10:29pm | #10

    I can only speak for myself, but the things I make are not available "retail". The ability to create what I envision and not settle for what can be found is priceless. Once your family comes to that realization you will find yourself quite busy.

11. 
    jake_w | Oct 26, 2019 07:55am | #11

    You have received some great advice here. I also started with a limited budget and limited tools and now have a well outfitted shop. If I did this again, I would focus on building stuff and buying tools as I need them. If you will only use a tool once, rent it (think texturing drywall), otherwise buy it. Beyond drill bits, I don't buy sets of anything. It is likely you will not use most of the set.

    Buy decent quality tools, you will use them forever. You will likely never upgrade until they break or wear out.

    I have an air compressor and 4 different nailers and staplers. I hate it. Absolutely hate it. Cordless nailers would be so much better for me. I use them infrequently and it is a pain to lug everything around to put in 2 dozen nails.

    Lastly, I have saved well over $100,000 building stuff myself. When we build our house, I built all the cabinets, stairs, railings, doors (interior and exterior), and I am continuing to build furniture. When we finished the build we were $140,000 under budget. I don't count my time because this is what I do to relax and unwind, so you can save money doing it yourself.

12. 
    user-395011 | Oct 27, 2019 02:01am | #12

    After approx. 20 years of woodworking I have progressed to making fine veneered boxes with stringing and marquetry inlays to a solid walnut cutlery chest with hand cut dovetailed drawers, jewelry boxes and veneered music boxes etc. I started small in my unheated garage with a craftsman 10" table saw, a craftsman band saw and your basic hand tools.

    My advise to you is to first decide what type of woodworking you would like to do, second, decide what next project you would like to make and third decide what special tools you will need to make it and fourth, buy the best quality tools you can afford keeping in mind that there are good used tools available. Don't forget estate auctions of woodworkers.

    Buy only those tools you will need for your next projects. You may never use the tools you buy on spec.. In this way you will have no dust collectors that you will seldom if ever use.

    Woodworking is a very rewarding hobby and an enjoyable hobby is what everyone needs to their mind active to live a long life. Keep in mind that you can usually buy what you plan to make for much less cost than building it if you put a value on your time and the tools you will need BUT yours will probably be of a better quality. And how can you be proud of something you buy not to mention the hours of enjoyment you had in building it yourself.
    To me there is no question of "should I buy or make"

    As has been mentioned before, it is very important to control the dust as there are woods that are very toxic to the body and it is very important to have a good sharpening system to keep your tools very sharp at all times. This is a must to making woodworking a very enjoyable hobby.

13. 
    mmichalofsky | Oct 27, 2019 06:11am | #13

    MJ you mean you don’t like ikea quality. Just kidding
    My advice is to watch what goes for sale on Craigslist - tools category
    And be patient
    Lots of good stuff at reasonable bargainable prices
    Also do not skip on cheap tools. They are the most expensive!

14. 
    razorsharp | Oct 31, 2019 09:49pm | #14

    Coming late, but my two cents:

    => I agree with buying tools only as you need them for a particular project. My experience was that I saved enough money doing each project myself that it paid for the tool I needed.

    => Buy only good quality tools. Not only will they not frustrate you, but they will have a resale value. Junk will not have a resale value.

    => Nothing wrong with corded tools in a workshop. I got a corded Milwaukee drill (made out of METAL not plastic) for about $10 at a yard sale. I love it.

15. 
    chelor | Nov 01, 2019 06:35am | #15

    Woodworking is only my hobby, but through the years I've sold enough furniture and other items I've built to more than pay for all of the hand and power tools I've acquired over the years. A quick estimate is that I've sold about $18,000 worth. I'm not putting a monetary value on my labor, but it's an enjoyable way to spend time, even if you are building something to be sold to someone else. If a person develops some skill (I'm not talking about selling small ticket items at craft fairs) he or she can make things to sell if money is an issue. Also, there are a lot worse hobbies when you look at the cost. If you buy any of the typical outdoor toys (boat, trailer, ATVs, snowmoobiles, and a big truck to drag them around) you are spending a lot more with no way to earn it back.

16. 
    user-6825719 | Nov 02, 2019 10:57am | #16

    I just got started myself. I work in the garage, and everything has to be put away to get the cars in.

    I bought tools as I needed them for what I was building. First project was built-in garage cabinets. Bosch plunge router and small table, kreg jig. I borrowed a buddies circular saw. I already had a larger compressor for painting guitars, so brad nailer was easy. Picked up a random orbit sander. Friend gave me an old dewalt chop/mitre saw, which I put a forrest blade on and made some zero clearance fences.

    Next tools were Makita track saw and Domino joiner.

    Veneer bag and bicycle pump engineered to pull - always wanted to do veneer casework.

    Just recently bought Dewalt 7491 table saw and a 24" woodpecker square. I should have spent the $125 on the square day 1, as it makes it very easy to square up sheet goods on the track saw. Built a vanity and needed table saw for the drawers...easy square and repeatability for parts. The dewalt has a great fence and aftermarket zero clearance throat plates. I also bought a Forrest blade for it.

    Overall not cheap, but certainly on a budget. The quality blades and Domino make doing professional level work a lot easier.

    I agree that if you are building cabinets or your own furniture that justifies the tool price.

17. 
    srmmmm | Nov 02, 2019 11:35am | #17

    Not true. I've built and sold three of these custom ATM enclosures to bank corporate offices that easily cover my power tool (jointer, planer, sliding miter saw, band saw, drill press, four routers, two router tables and scroll saw) investments.

    
18. 
    chipsawdust | Nov 06, 2019 10:56am | #18

    Ah so many choices. You've gettin excellent advise here. I really liked the fence on my DeWalt job site saw, but the direct drive motor and table size eventually showed its limitations. Great saw for portability but my saw sits on the floor all the time. A Ridgid, by the way, which I feel was an excellent value for the $550 I spent on it.

    People have mentioned a band saw, and I have to agree. It's a versatile tool that gives you so many options. I use a circular saw for sheet goods. Get a decent one with an electric brake. Or did you say you already have one? Well use that then :)

    I'll never regret the money I spent on Lie Nielson hand planes. They are expensive but they are also like driving a Cadillac when you're used to old Datsuns :) Total satisfaction.

    Sharpening is important. Get a good setup that won't frustrate you. I can't recommend the Veritas setup any higher; it's well worth the money vs. frustration I had with cheaper honing guides.

19. 
    mikaol | Nov 09, 2019 11:54am | #19

    Hi,
    If I may, get lots of pencils, a pencil sharpener and erasers. I prefer pink erasers. Graph paper will come in handy, as will an artist's sketch pad, compass and protractor. You can find everything in school supply section of any store that sells them.
    There are good refurb tools at CPOoutlet and HarborFreight.com.
    Hope I helped.
    Mikaol

20. 
    user-4002380 | Nov 11, 2019 01:31pm | #20

    Just wanted to say thank you again for all of the advice given! I wanted to give an update on what I decided to do.

    I picked up the used PC 690 router with fixed base and a basic set of bits to get me started. I will pick up nicer individual bits as I figure out what I will need/use often.

    I bought a Bosch corded jigsaw and a pack of fine blades.

    I got a DMT diamond sharpening stone (I think it's 600 and 1200 grit) and will start by getting my chisels nice and sharp. Also have some chefs knives in need of a tune up.

    And last but not least I got a Hitachi C10RJ jobsite table saw. Lowe's put them on clearance and one of my local stores had 1 in stock. Went into the store and found that it compared nicely to the top-of-the-line Dewalt jobsite saw. 35" rip capacity, soft start, brake, rack and pinion fence. I was able to get them to knock another 10% off because the box was a little damaged and then got 5% off for my Lowes card. Came out to just over $250 which I think is great to get me started. Picked up a Diablo blade for it as well.

    Other than that I got glue, a couple bar clamps, and an assortment of F clamps. I already had eye/ear pro, masks, and shop vac so should be good to go there. I did get one of those small cyclone dust separates you attach to a 5 gallon bucket which I think is awesome.

    I built a mobile workbench/outfeed table and plan to make a simple router table next.

    My first non-shop project I'm going to try is some end grain cutting boards; I would also like to get into making frames and eventually nice boxes.

21. 
    joeleonetti | Nov 11, 2019 03:33pm | #21

    I was completely set to go the power tool route. What stopped me was I spent the money on a garage remodel so I needed to save up for the machine tools. Then, I discovered Paul Sellers and am doing a hand tool approach. Start with his free stuff (both YouTube and his website). Then you can decided if it's right for you. Personally, the wall clock video is what did me in. I've now built 5 of them with just hand tools.

    For a $500 budget, you can easily get all that you need. Rather than tell you what it would be, watch Paul Sellers videos and it will be easy to figure it out.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/PaulSellersWoodwork

    https://youtu.be/NWwltcYSHc0

22. 
    user-4002380 | Nov 11, 2019 04:44pm | #22

    I've actually watched a lot of Paul Sellers videos and I enjoy them. I am interested in being a hybrid woodworker who uses both power and hand tools. Even after watching several videos I'm still at a loss at what hand tools would be the best to start with.

23. 
    joeleonetti | Nov 11, 2019 07:19pm | #23

    In terms of hand tools to start with, below is a list. When in doubt, Hyperkitten.com is a great website to buy used handtools. Josh gives honest evaluations of the tools you can get and if you aren't happy you send them back.

    Handplane - if I had to pick one I'd get a Number 5 though a number 4 would work just as well. Likely run $35 to $50 on Hyperkitten.

    Get a 3/4", 1/2", 1/4" bevel edge chisels. If you want to get one more get a 1". These do 99% of the job for me.

    An engineer's square - a 12" size does it all. Probably get on Hyperkitten for $30 to $60

    Get the Thor woodworking mallet Paul Sellers recommends - it's like $25.

    Marking knife - get the one Paul Sellers recommends from Stanley. It runs like $7. I prefer it strongly over ones I've spent $50+ or more on.

    A flat sole spokeshave. I quite like the Stanley metal 151 spokeshave. It works quite well. Per Paul Sellers, the new ones from them still seem to work properly (not all brands that mimic these do). Runs $25 or so.

    For the saws I'd go new so you get one that should work well. Below is all you need.
    Paul Sellers recommends a Spear and Jackson rip saw - runs about $25 and is resharpenable. Should be able to find on Amazon. If you already own a big box store saw, that will be more than adequate for your needs.

    Dovetail saw - if being budget friendly I'd go with the Veritas dovetail saw and it runs around $60. If you want to splurge a bit, go with the LieNielsen dovetail saw for about twice that. You do NOT need a tennon saw. The dovetail saw crosscuts tennons just fine and I did that for three years before I bought a tennon saw and I was then underwhelmed with the difference between the two.

    Coping saw. Get whatever brand Paul Sellers recommends. It runs $25.

    As for a ruler, I just got a 12 foot one at Walmart for $10 and it is fine. If you already have one, you are good to go. For 12" and smaller, you have one on the engineering square.

    For a marking gauge, there are a lot to choose from. If I had to pick just one, I'd go with the Veritas dual marking gauge with the little circular wheels. I think they run $60. I like that you can use it as a single marker or for doing mortise and tennons and dual mark.

    Two last tools ….
    A router. I like the one I purchased from LieNielsen but I hear good things about the Veritas one (runs $160). I used mine a lot early on but you can get buy for a while without if you are sorting out what tools to get.

    The small plough plane from Veritas along with a 3/8" blade for grooves. $250. Not needed initially. If you already have a powertool router, the small plough plane can wait.

    For sharpening, welcome to religion. I went the Paul Sellers diamond stone route (I trust his advice more than anyone elses) and have been quite happy. You could get buy with a dual sided diamond stone just fine as well. Say something with 400 grit and 1000 grit.

24. 
    rroselavy | Nov 11, 2019 07:35pm | #24

    I am a hybrid ww, with a bias toward hand tools.

    My preference is to use machines for dimensioning, and hand tools for everything else. I cannot tolerate noise and dust for very long. If I could only have one power tool, it would definitely be the bandsaw.

    If I were to start over, putting together a very basic hand tool kit, it would look like this list:

    Combination Square - Do not skimp here. Precision joints all begin with the square. I recommend a Starrett 12”.
    Marking Knife - I use a vintage Hyde knife because I can grind/sharpen it to any profile I want. Any comfortable carbon steel knife with the right blade shape and length that is easily sharpened will do. Nothing fancy.
    Bevelled Edge Chisel Set - Put some good money here. You want the chisels very flat, and the steel needs to hold a keen edge. Buy 3-5 common sizes. I am happy with my vintage Marples boxwood chisels, but I might consider Narex on the low end or Veritas O1 chisels on the high end if I were to buy again.
    Marking/Mortise Gauges - I have a few vintage wooden Stanley and Marples gauges. The Stanley 65 gauge is most comfortable in my xlarge hand, and my vintage Marples Mortise gauge works a treat. I prefer pins over wheel gauges. YMMV
    Chisel Hammer - Rubber/plastic tipped mallet. Nothing Fancy.
    Smoothing Plane - Nothing too heavy. Needs to be well built so it maintains adjustment. Vintage Stanley #4 is a good start. I would chose bevel-down over bevel-up for first plane.
    Measuring Tape - Modern 12’ Starett or Stanley Powerlock steel tape measure. Used for rough measurement. Nothing Fancy
    Dovetail Saw - Veritas saws are a good value here. Precision without a premium price tag. A larger 14” carcase saw may also be good down the road.
    Sliding Bevel - I have several vintage Stanley/Sargent bevels, all of the same basic design. As long as it holds tight, its good.
    Hand Router - optional, but useful for fine tuning the bottom of dados or tenon cheeks.

    Other tools, like Mortise chisels, hand saws, and jack/jointer/shoulder/rabbet/plough planes can wait until you get addicted to hand tool woodworking.

    Hope that helps. Enjoy the ride. -RR