Replies

1. 
   mikeddd | Aug 14, 2009 05:33pm | #1

      Welcome to knots. I think building that workbench would be a very good project to build, you will get lots of use out of the bench down the road and you will most likely learn different things from building the bench. I read somewhere that the average woodworker has five workbenches through there life, so after you build this one and use it for awhile you can decide what you like about it and what you don't, then if you decide to build a monster maple workbench you will have a better idea of what you want on it to suit the work that your doing, then again maybe this bench will be all you need. Knots is a great resource for woodworking questions and topics. Good luck on the project, have fun and work safe.

   Mike

2. 
   RalphBarker | Aug 14, 2009 07:35pm | #2

   Welcome to the wonderful world of woodworking.

   While there are many lessons to be learned, one of the best (IMHO) to grapple with early on is the difference between "functional" and "desirable". Functional now is often better than desirable later. ;-)

   Used machines can often be found at good prices via your local Craig's List. The trick is to know what to look for in terms of wear, abuse, etc., so you don't buy someone else's "lemon". A bit of research, thinking through the mechanics of the tool, and asking questions here will usually provide the info needed to make wise purchases.

3. 
   James R. | Aug 14, 2009 07:56pm | #3

   JD:

   My suggestion for a first purchase would be a table saw. Buy as good as you can afford whether new or used. The TS will be the foundation for your shop and make building that workbench a lot easier. After that you'll learn what your needs are by the things you wish to build and go from there.

   Knots is a great site for info, so use it. I've received more help here than I could afford to pay for.

   Good luck,

   Jim

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/14/2009 1:00 pm ET by James R.

4. 
   THintz | Aug 14, 2009 08:06pm | #4

   Everybody starts and progresses through woodworking at their own rate. We all havae varying amounts of time and money available as well as different ideas about what we want to build and the tools we want to use to build those projects. My whole site started around new woodworkers but I quickly found that having over 30 years in this hobby does not mean yo are done learning by any means!

   Take your time, ask questions and be safe first. This is a hobby afterall and should be fun!

   Tom Hintz

   Because there is always more to learn!

5. 
   WillGeorge | Aug 14, 2009 08:26pm | #5

   I would say if on a very tight budget..

   Find a old 'flat' solid wood door and put it on some saw horses! And cut a hunk of 3/4 inch MDF to fit on top of it.. A few screws driven deep so the MDF can be replaced if necessary. Keep water off of the MDF top! Away you go go..

   You can never have enough clamps!

    

    

6. 
   Carya | Aug 15, 2009 01:53am | #6

   I built two useful workbenches with 2x6 framing lumber for the frame and several sheets of plywood for the top. Leave room for vices, etc. It does not have to be pretty to be functional.

   You should decide if you want to go the handtool route (planes, scrapers) or power tools (jointer, planer, etc). Having a combination of both, I can tell you good ones are both expensive. That is why I suggest you choose one route for now and you can expand later. To build furniture faster than molasses (for a beginner) and have useful tools for renos, you may want to have power cutting tools first.

   The most versatile power tool is the table saw. Unless you like fooling with machines, I suggest buy new. Check the reviews and ask others' opinions. You probably want to find an upper end contractors or good hybrid saw with cast iron table as a minimum.

   Whatever you get for milling and cutting, don't forget to budget for the smaller but important tools like those for marking, measuring, squaring, etc. The typical hardware store cheapies don't always do the same job.

   You do not need everything at once. Your new habbit, er, hobby will force you to expand your collection over time. ;)

   Andy

7. 
   JDBraddy | Aug 15, 2009 05:04am | #7

   Thanks for the welcome guys. I went looking at a new tablesaws after work today, and really had to question my commitment. Of course the first place I went, Otto-Dukes, had the high end stuff, Delta Unisaw and Saw-Stop Pro, both $3-5K, which is way....way....beyond my budget for now. I asked for advice and they where trying to sell me either the Shop-Fox 3HP LT cabnet saw with 52" table extention for $1450, or the Shop-Fox 2HP LT Hybred for $1200. Both of these are over my budget also, but not quite as farr, and I could concievably do it if I where to sell some stuff first, and was really prepared to kiss-up to the boss lady for a while. The only thing that I was willing to consider that actually was within my budget was at Home Depot, their Rigid R4511 1.5HP granite top 3/4 cabinet Hybred for $600. I'm trying to weigh the urge to hold out for something nice, with the practical reality of I'm just doing this for fun, not to impress anybody or earn a living, and there's a lot of other stuff I'm still going to want.

1. 
   mikeddd | Aug 15, 2009 07:25am | #8

    I built three beds for the house and allot of other furniture with my Rigid 3650, sold it to a friend who has made some very nice projects with it since. If the newer R4511 1.5HP granite top is anything like the older contractor version I had it will be a good saw.

   Mike

2. 
   RalphBarker | Aug 16, 2009 06:35pm | #9

   Sounds like you're well on your way toward understanding the functional vs. desirable thing. ;-)

8. 
   xirebos | Aug 16, 2009 07:36pm | #10

   As far as workbenches go, I built this one https://www.finewoodworking.com/ProjectsAndDesign/ProjectsAndDesignArticle.aspx?id=29507 and have been pleased with the functionality and stability thus far.

   And, while it may not be the prettiest pig at the auction, I was able to build it without a tablesaw using a circular saw and a straight edge.

   Curiousity and ingenuity are your friends!

1. 
   JDBraddy | Aug 17, 2009 03:43am | #11

   That's a nice one, I hadn't thought of laminating plywood and then trimming it up that way and just leaving spaces in it rather than trying to cut mortices, to make 4X4 stock. Then just trimming up the edges. I had been looking at the pre-laminated maple bench tops available also, they seemed expensive but when I tought about it, I doubt I could buy the maple stock needed to make one, for what they cost. There's really a lot more options out there, than I had thought.

   I went to look at a bandsaw for sale locally yesterday. It was a 14" and the brand was Buffalo, evedently made in Taiwan back in the 80's. At first bulsh it looked like a good deal for $100, but the first thing that gave me pause was it didn't use standard size blades. 92" instead of 93.5" blades. Then when I started it up, I began to smell rubber burning. I shut it down and the tires where trying to come off the wheel. I looked into replacing the tires but they wheren't a standard size either. Finally I noticed there was no vent to attach a dust collector hose. When I started adding up what it would cost to get this thing up and running, I was approaching the price of what I could buy a new 14" Rigid saw for that took standard sized everything. I passed on the deal.

   Since a nice new cabinet saw seems like such a huge and intimidating investment right now, I was thinking for about the same price, I could get a nice Bandsaw, a sliding miter saw, a drill press, and a router table. With a few shop made jigs I would have even more funtional ability than a table saw alone could provide, and get along nicely for a while, while I saved up for whatever table saw I might eventually want. I don't have to get them all at once either, and each is a much more managable investment alone. I think it would be a lot easier to get by the boss lady if I chose a series of prodjects, ones that each required one of these new tools to complete. Then perhapse it wouldn't seem like such a huge intital cash outlay, and would at the same time put me in a much stronger bargaining position. By the time I  had completed this series of prodjects, I'd have much more of a repetwar to point to, and argue that this is a serious hobby for me, not just some kick I'm on, and BTW look at all the nice stuff and all the home improvments you're getting out of the deal!

   Edited 8/16/2009 8:57 pm ET by JDBraddy

   Edited 8/16/2009 9:01 pm ET by JDBraddy

1. 
   zolton | Aug 19, 2009 05:22pm | #23

   JD,

   You were right to walk away from that 1980's el-cheapo bandsaw. I had one like it, though the brand was different - I had a Startrite or something like that. Sounds like it came from the same factory though - odd-sized blade requirement and all.

   The blade size, by itself, wouldn't be enough to disqualify the saw from contention. You can get blades made up to any size you need.

   But the saw was so crudely built it was impossible to make run right. When I could get the blade to stay on the wheels, it would wander in the cut (brand new blades, too). It seemed as though the frame wasn't sturdy enough to overcome the blade's tension, so it racked a bit when I tightened it down.

   Plus the table would move when I tried to tighten the hand-killing knobs that secured it at various angles.

   In other words, it was a constant fight to get anything good out of it. I avoided using it because it was such a pain in the neck, and probably dangerous besides.

   There are a lot of good, older, used bandsaws out there on the market. Lots of old Deltas, for example. You'll get to know a quality tool in time. It helps shorten the learning curve if you can take someone along with you who knows about this stuff to look at something you're contemplating buying. But stay away from that 1980's Taiwanese stuff. It's really bad. You've just dodged your first bullet...

   ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon

9. 
   Thorvald | Aug 17, 2009 04:18am | #12

   Hi JD, welcome to woodworking.

   Looks like you've had plenty of good advice, so I'll try to avoid the duplication and give you just a couple of tips from my experience. 

   First, with regard to expensive machinery, by all means buy the best you can aford but bare in mind that you have to aford material as well.  You'll have to learn the balancing act between buying tools and buying wood.  If you spend all your money on tools, you'll be using really good tools to work with material that isn't adequate for fence posts.  On the other hand, if you skimp too much on tools, it won't matter how great your wood is, you'll be making a mess.  When I started out, I equiped my shop with all the basic machines from Craftsman expecting that, by the time I wore them out, I'd have a good idea of what to replace them with.  I never did wear them out--a significant point--but now I can afford to equip my new shop with what I know to be good equipment because of the experience.

   Second, with regard to machines versus hand tools, don't go one way or the other!  You have to learn to use both.  If you throw your life savings at machines, you'll never produce really good work because fine work requires things you do by hand.  If you spend it all on hand tools, you'll likely become frustrated because the work you want to do takes soooo long.  Search for the happy in-between.  Learn to eliminate the drudgery with machines and accomplish the artistry by hand.

   Happy Chip Making,

   Verne

   Verne

   If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Aug 17, 2009 05:44am | #13

   Verne,

   Learn to eliminate the drudgery with machines and accomplish the artistry by hand.

   Big 10-4 on that.

   JD - My first stationary power tool was a Sears radial arm saw back in the early 70s.  Wouldn't you know it I needed to rip pieces too, was too skairt to rip with the RAS.  May have been a reason I'm still kickin today.  Didn't have a workbench either.

   Had to have a table saw!  Bought a Delta 10" contractors saw in '75.  I've since (less than 2 years ago) upgraded to a Unisaw (70s vintage -guess I like old stuff).  Still no workbench, but had sawhorses!

   Seems like a lot of verbage to say something pretty simple; take your time and get tools as you need them but get the very best you can afford.  Like most things you get what you pay for.

   Working with wood is a constant leaning process, thank God!

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   JDBraddy | Aug 18, 2009 05:27am | #14

   My evil plan has stared without me, I didn't even have to bring the subject up! The boss lady told me today, that she wants to take down all the curtains, because she wants to frame all the windows with decorative molding, and replace the curtains with wooden blinds.

   Of course I chimed in with..... I'd need a compound miter saw to make the fancy cuts on all that molding. She didn't even blink. Then I planted another seed, and told her she'd have to come with me, to pick out the moulding she wanted me to use,  and if they didn't have one she liked, I could even try to make a custom molding using my router, although I'd probably have to mount it on some sort of jig or router table for that. I'm not sure how to go about the wooden blinds, but I wouldn't think they'd be too difficult to make either.

   Edited 8/17/2009 10:33 pm ET by JDBraddy

1. 
   Thorvald | Aug 18, 2009 06:40am | #15

   JD, I'd say you're a natural.  It takes most of us years to develop the ability to respond that way without hesitation but without seeming too eager.  The best part comes later when your wife is so anxious to have you producing work around the house that the mere suggestion that you need something produces a "what are you waiting for!" response from her. 

    Verne

   If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->

2. 
   mikeddd | Aug 18, 2009 06:46am | #16

    

   "My evil plan has stared without me, I didn't even have to bring the subject up! The boss lady told me today, that she wants to take down all the curtains, because she wants to frame all the windows with decorative molding, and replace the curtains with wooden blinds."

    

      Yes JD it sounds as if you are at the threshold of a whole new and interesting hobby, good luck have fun and by the way the list seems to grow faster than you can finish the projects, unless you can build things faster than the "boss lady" can think up new projects.

   Mike

3. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Aug 18, 2009 01:31pm | #17

   Oh I see.  Mike and Verne have aptly described good courses of action.  I might further caution against too much creativity if jig/fixture building as it can negate your pursuits of new tools for your woodshop. 

   But then there's always the old stand by, "Whattaya mean new tool, I've had that for years"!  Gettin over the woodshop with lots of tools hump is the real challenge.  Hint:  Cover 'em with lots of sawdust right after opening the box.  The antithesis to this however is that you must cut some wood.

   :-)

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Aug 18, 2009 01:41pm | #18

   OH just thought of something else. 

   If ye kin steer her towards rosettes adorning the top corners of the winder stiles that should get you in the ballpark for at least a new drill press, cutters.  You'll still need the miter saw.  Don't be thinking sleds for the tablesaw now.  See what I mean about jigs/fixtures?

   Might need some carving chisels, nothing but the best mind.  Files, rasps, scrapers, router bits.

   You certainly sound like you're a natural for this self fulfilling hobby.  Congtatulations!  Have you any thoughts as to a new word for newby?   Not sure I like that label - dupe doesn't sound right either.

   HI, I'm a duper.  I used to be a newby till I found nirvana.  Geeeesh, it just doesn't seem to have that ring to it, eh?

   Regards, Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   JDBraddy | Aug 18, 2009 03:28pm | #19

   Congtatulations!  Have you any thoughts as to a new word for newby?   Not sure I like that label - dupe doesn't sound right either.

   Novice - somebody who is learning an activity and has acquired little skill in it.

   Beginner - somebody who is beginning or learning something.

   Trainee - somebody being trained by a skilled professional in an art, craft, or trade

   apprentice - a novice or amateur.

   Journeyman - an artisan who has completed an apprenticeship and is fully trained or qualified, but must still work for another.

   Pleeb - a first year student.

   It going to be tough to match witts with one who quotes the wisdom of Willie Wonka on his profile.

3. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Aug 19, 2009 03:40am | #20

   I know, I don't care for newby either, but can't think of a good replacement though.

   It just sounded from your posts that you are well aware of the boss but am determined to get into woodworking.  My wife is the CFO here.  Nuff said about that, eh.

   Keep us informed about your progress.  We're all newbies at some things - haven't done it all and prolly won't.  To me that's part of the enjoyment of the journey.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

4. 
   Thorvald | Aug 19, 2009 05:26am | #21

   You're forgetting one ploy that's worked pretty well for me a time or two--I think Pat McManus describes using it for a pretty little 16ga shotgun in one of his stories.  You can always buy the tool for her!  I acquired my--make that "our"-- first cordless drill/driver that way.  Worked well for a wheelbarrow too.  Granted, it has limited application, but for some tools, it works great.

    Verne

   If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->

5. 
   zolton | Aug 19, 2009 05:12pm | #22

   You brought up Pat McManus! A guy who has provided me plenty of laughs over the years. Do you recognize, "You can't eat sign?"

   Zolton

    If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon