Hi,
I’m going to an antique tool swap meet tomorrow. I’m in the market for a couple errr maybe one Bedrock plane 604 1/2, 604, 605, 605 1/2, 606. I know the 1/2 sizes get premiums and don’t figure to get a deal on one of those.
My budget is $200.
I’m figuring prices based upon Lie-Nielsen. I figure I’d have to save at least $50 off a LN to make it worth it…maybe $75 as the blades on the LNs are pretty nice and a great warranty.
So do you think I can find a 604 1/2 for $200….?
While I’m at it perhaps I should solicit some further advice. I have a planer…but not a jointer. Should my first plane purchase be a jointer plane or the smoothing plane I mention or perhaps an in betweener a 605 of some sort? I like to make pretty square styled cabinetry.
Thanks,
Bro. Luke
Replies
I cannot comment on the price you should pay for a #60X, but should point out that a Stanley Bedrock will never equal a LN in quality or performance no matter how much tuning you do. That is not to say that a Bedrock cannot perform well - it just depends on what you consider to be well enough. You will not get a cheap LN by buying and tuning a Bedrock - you will get a tuned Bedrock.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thanks,I've owned a couple Bedrocks in the past, I have no idea why I sold them, they worked ok. Perhaps it's time I treat myself to a LN.Bro.LukeBro.Luke
"a Stanley Bedrock will never equal a LN in quality or performance"THat's a bold statement to make. My bedrocks are carefully machined, have wonderfully sculpted brazilian rosewood handles, and crisp lever caps with the "bedrock"logo cast in. They required no fettling what so ever, except one which needed a little flattening. I did put in thicker irons. When I trained we learned to always approach the cut by feeding the iron so now it's automatic and if there is backlash in any of the planes I have never noticed it. On quality I'd say it's a wash.
On performance Bedrock are lighter - so if you use one all day you appreciate that. And the shavings are just as nice and the wood is just as tearout free. So perofrmance is a wash also.
The trick is I bought them from dealers long before ebay. (the one that require flattening had been screwed up by a dealer) I didn't try to get a project plane. I payed top dollar and got my moneys worth. - Still a lot less than a new plane would cost.LN makes a great plane - so did Stanley. A new LN costs about the same as a new stanley did in 1920 dollars. And when you put in a nice thick iron they work about the same too. Just one is currently new and the other may or may not be in working shape after 80 years.
Let's see ...
Other than your Bedrocks being
... carefully machined
... needing no fettling whatsoever
... replacing with thicker irons
... bought them from dealers before eBay (not project planes)
... paid top dollar and got (your) moneys worth
then they'd be the same as a Bedrock off eBay today? And as good a quality as a new LN?
<Grin>
Regards from Perth
Derek
Yip -
if you want to say a LN plane is better than a 50 buck project plane off of ebay sure - but a brand new chevy is also a bit better than a 80 year old ford that was left rusting in a yard.But comparing Apples to Apples their ain't much of a difference except the long gracefull handles on the 1920's bedrock are prettier than anything Stanley or anyone else made before or since for a cast plane.
I tend to agree with you Derek. Myself, I wouldn't buy off eBay unless the seller was very reputable- there are too many "hybrids" being offered for sale, lots of sharks.I buy my planes locally from a dealer, or at flea markets where I can inspect the flesh. The Bedrock is a fine plane, but unfortunately, their collectability has pushed up prices. Baileys are a much better bargain, IMHO. For a #5 jack (ca 1888), I paid $35 for a plane in very good condition. I was looking for a #7 at the time, and came across a 607 that was ~1920. It was just under $300- in good, but not very good condition. A LN #7 was $350. It's hard to justify (at least on woodworking basis) the Bedrock at that price.I own Baileys, LN, LV and a Craftsman or two. For most work, the Bailey frog works fine for me. For a finisher, I like the LN 4 1/2 with the York pitch. If I come across a 607 in very good condition at an attractive price, I'd buy it.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Well the buy them locally is a good idea I guess but how do you find them locally? This is part of my reason for why so many peaple just buy V/LV or LN it is because while I may not know a good plane from a bad I trust those folks to only sell me good stuff.
I would love to pick up an old Bedrock but I dont know enough to get one off Ebay unless they are so cheep that I can risk the money. And I have no idea where to find them locally. I think this is an issue with a lot of peaple.
Doug Meyer
Depends on where you live. In New England, NY/NJ and PA, dealers are common. There are many flea markets also. If you go to a flea market or two, you'll probably find some. If not, ask. If all you see are quilts and baseball cards ask some of the vendors if they know of any fleas that do tools... it won't take long. Posting the question on Knots or the Creek will get some local responses. Also, check Craig's list for your area. You will often find ads for woodworking tools of all types, and planes will be mixed in. Respond and ask the seller to let you see before you buy. If you haven't done so, get Hack's "The Handplane Book".When you do check out a plane, bring a straight edge. Take the plane apart. Look for cracks near the mouth, assess for flatness of the sole, make sure the mechanism for depth and position is working correctly. Do all the parts match and fit- otherwise the cap iron or chip breaker or even the frog might be from a different model. If the seller won't let you disassemble the plane, walk.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Derek
Thought I would throw this out there. A little off topic, but what the hey. I've got a 605 1/2 that I screwed up and cracked the corner off of the frog. Can you believe I was trying to pien the adjuster to be tighter, and hit it too hard!?!? I can be such a dumass! Anyway, do you know of a source for a possible purchase of a frog for an old round sided 605 1/2? I have been checking ebay weekly for over a year now with no success.
Sorry for the intrusion. By the way, just to make this back on topic, I have a near complete set of Bedrocks. I'm missing the 602 (worthless for woodworkers, imho, and the 605 1/4 (too danged much money for toooooo little plane). They're all fettled and tuned, with hock blades in each. They work great! However, I also have a complete set of LN's, and I can definately tell the difference between the two. Even with all the extra tuning, the Bedrock is still not as nice a plane. That being said, Bedrock's are still very good planes, and get the job done satisfactorily, as they have for over a hundred years now.
Jeff
A complete set of Bedrocks and a complete set of LNs???You don't need another plane, you need a support group!(LOL)Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I make my living with my tools. The Bedrock's were acquired over time, and I was using them daily. When I got my first LN, a LA block plane to replace the Stanley that I had to tune every other day, (so it seemed) I was quite impressed. I went and bought a bronze #4, and the rest is history. Now, I look at the Bedrocks, and work with the LN's. They've all paid for themselves many times over, so I do feel guilty at all.
You should see my chisels! Ha Ha Ha!
Jeff :>)
Derek, where would you put a Clifton #4 1/2 in this equation? Paddy
Where would I put the Clifton? Somewhere on my bench, I believe I would
They are excellent performers. And I like their looks - that round top Bedrock style - best of them all. But they come in third after the LN and LV for finish and construction. I place the LN and LV about equal. The Clifton is the odd one out in using grey cast iron, and not ductile iron, so is as fragile as any Stanley.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Well I live in the Metro Detroit area, and as far as I know we do not have any local tool dealers that handle the older stuff. And if this was found in an antique dealer well I don't want to think about the cost. Is their some way to try and locate a dealer? I mean if I have to deal with them over the internet is this any better then Ebay? I guess maybe if they come recommended buy a few people but otherwise it is still a gamble.
I do have to agree with the post about anyone that has a full set of Bedrocks and a full set of LN needing a support group, so being as I am so nice and being as if you have both, you are most likely poor (well you are after buying all of them) I am willing to help you out. Most support groups say you have to recognize that you have a problem. Then you have to confront your problem, then you have to take drastic actions to correct your problem. So I suggest the following steps.
Go into the garage and line up all you hand planes together in one space starting with the LN on the left and ending with the BR on the right. Now look at how many you have and say to yourself that you have a problem. Congrats you have recognized the problem and confronted it. So now to take action to fix the problem. Start on one side or the other (take your pick) and pack half of your planes in a box, make it a nice strong box with lots of packing. Now to help you resist back sliding you need to put these someplace you will not be tempted to get them back from. So take this box to the local shipping store and send it to "D Meyer, 22596, Lazy K Dr South Lyon MI". You can even send it COD, being as I am such a nice person and only want to help you with your "Problem" I am willing to pay out of my own pocket for the shipping cost. Heck I can even toss in a hundred or so for your time and gas. :)
And as a side question do you all prefer the round or flat top Bedrocks? I like the look of the flat tops.
Doug Meyer
PS I promise to give them a nice home and treat them kindly. They will only have the best of woods to work with!
Doug
I did as you requested to see if it would help. Left to right, LN to Bedrock. Didn't even phase me. I guess I'll keep em'.
Cheers,
Jeff
Well you have made that brave first step, now all you need to do is pack them up and i am sure we can have you curred if this illness soon. If you don't have the strenght to take this big a step on your own I can alwas swing buy and help you with this (once again because I am SUCH a big harted person) Where did you say you live again? :)
All joking aside that is a heck of a collection of planes. Where in the world do you keep them all?
Doug Meyer
They are presently residing on 3 shelves in my shop. I had a very nice cherry cabinet that I made for the Bedrocks, since I don't use them much anymore(occasionally the 604 and 606), but I sold it to a customer who turned it into a Curio Cabinet. He saw it when he was at the shop picking out mouldings for a cabinet job, and HAD to have it. I'm presently building a wall hanging tool cabinet to put all my hand tools in.
Jeff
Well thier you go, because I am SO nice I am willing to help you with this also. I will take all these extra planes off your hands so that you can build a smaller storage case for the remainder.
Nice aint I?
Doug Meyer
Derek, thanks as usual for the info. When I wanted a #5 1/2 I chose LN as it had a little more weight and was available with a York pitch frog, I hate fussing with irons and angles. The grey iron is no problem as I never take them out on the "pitch", it's strictly handel with care where the Cliftons and Bed Rocks are concerned. Pat.
At tool meets everyone expects to negotiate prices. Don't hesitate to make an offer, at worst it will bring a counter offer.
I don't think you'll find a 604-1/2 for $200.00, unless it has an improper lever cap or is missing parts. The 604-1/2's seem to be very close to the Lie-Nielsons in price.
Therefore, if I was in the market for a 604-1/2, I would buy a Lie-Nielsen with the high-angle frog. Not because it's necessarily a better plane, Derek, but because for the same amount of money I would be getting an improved product.
In your case,though, I would look for a jointer plane before I bought a smooth plane.A Stanley #7 or #8 would be my choice.
Rick W
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