Replies

1. 
   thumbnailed | Oct 07, 2008 11:19pm | #1

   If its value to you is as an antique, leave the patina. If its value is as a tool, tune it up. Rust is a patina, but you wouldn't leave it on your table saw. As to the dogholes, I think square ones are layed up during the bench assembly, so the best way to re-do them might be to rip out the old ones and relaminate the top with a little new wood. If someone has a better idea, I defer to them.

2. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 08, 2008 03:24am | #2

   Post a picture or two so we can see. Maybe some better answers.

3. 
   alanplanesaw | Oct 08, 2008 04:28am | #3

   I agree with the others that you have to decide (you probably already have) if you are going to keep it as an antique or if you are going to use it.

   I bought a small one and immediately took it completely apart and put it back together so that it was in top notch shape to use.  Cleaned and flattened the top.  Took that "patina" (couple small nails driven in, paint, gunk, and who knows what else.) right off and now it looks great and is highly useful.

   Had a good woodworker been using it all along, the top wouldn't have had that "patina."  It would be smooth and flat and in use.

   Enjoy,

   Alan - planesaw

4. 
   MikeHennessy | Oct 08, 2008 02:13pm | #4

   I think flat benchtops are overrated. (Tongue only slightly in cheek.)

   Seriously, I can't remember ever thinking "Gee, if only my bench were flatter!" And my bench is old, and used hard, so it ain't all that flat.

   I suggest you try it out for a while and only flatten it if you find it is restricting your work. Unless it's as swaybacked as Grandpa's Old Mule, I'm guessing you won't need to flatten it at all.

   I learned woodworking on old benches like that -- wooden-screw vices and all. I would not have dreamed of resurfacing any of them.

   The main reason you need a truely flat surface in the shop is for glue-ups, and I rarely do those on the bench. (IMHO, glue slop on the bench is far more annoying than a less-than-flat top.)

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh, PA

1. 
   JeffHeath | Oct 11, 2008 06:26am | #17

   Mike

   Without starting a dust-up, I'd point out that a flat bench is essential IF and only IF you use it to hand plane stock.  If you do, (and I do), and there is a dip in the bench, 3/4" stock will be pressed into the 'dip' when I work it.

   If the bench is for assembly, or just chopping out joinery, etc....then you are right.  It can have a few rollercoaster-like whoop-de-doo's in it with little or no consequence.

   Lee Grindinger turns out some of the most beautiful hand carved furniture I've ever seen on a bench made out of about $10 worth of 3/4" horsecrap plywood and 2 x 4's.  I almost passed out when I saw it for the first time, but bit my lip hard, as I have seen his work in person.  Wow!!  And, in carrying out the story a little further.....when the dovetailing guru who used to work for LN (I forget his name) tried to flatten some boards by hand before he started his little rant on hand cutting dovetails for the crowd, he gave Lee quite the smirk, and stated, something to the effect (I'm not quoting) 'What the heck kind of a bench is this????'

   Jeff

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Oct 13, 2008 02:00pm | #20

   "Without starting a dust-up, I'd point out that a flat bench is essential IF and only IF you use it to hand plane stock."

   Agreed, provided the stock you are planing is long enough, and the plane you are using is long enough, to make the dip material to the operation. A 1/4" dip in the middle of an 8' bench won't have any effect on a block plane. Maybe a it would a jointer, tho'. Even so, a judiciously placed shim or two can make the problem go away. I can think of other non-planing tasks where I wanted to be sure the surface was flat -- usually marking or assembly. In those cases, I throw a sheet of ply over the table saw and use that.

   Now, don't think I'm arguing for making benches that look like suspension bridges -- I'm not. I'm just saying that, if I had acquired a nice old bench with plenty of mojo, I'd run with it a while to see just how much any lack of flatness really affected my work, if at all.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

5. 
   joinerswork | Oct 08, 2008 03:15pm | #5

   gettes,

   Have you already cleaned the gunk off?  I'd be inclined to give the bench a good going-over, cleaning and tightening, but wait to re-flatten the top til you can use it a bit and decide then if it is needed.  In other words, don't plane off the patina unless the top is really bowed or twisted.

   If the dog holes are wallowed out so far as to be unusable, you could/ought to patch them.  But there again if the damage is purely cosmetic, I don't know that I'd erase part of the piece's history just to make it pristine in appearance. Does the bench have its original dogs? My old bench's dog holes are recessed to accomodate the metal dog's heads, allowing them to be pushed down flush with the top.  There is also a shop made wooden dog that came with my bench, that by itself,  makes the dog holes appear to be oversize. 

   Ray

1. 
   gettes | Oct 08, 2008 10:12pm | #6

   Thanks for the input.  I'm going to take some pix of it right now so that I also have a before and after.  As I was taking it apart last night I noticed that some of the dog holes had already been patched by driving wedges in, I thing I'll just follow suit on the couple that are really blown out.  It's pretty flat except for the front edge where all the work was done it dives down considerably, about a 1/2" on the tail vise end from back to front.  I'll try working with it as is (good suggestion) because that's an lot of flattening.  I will definitely be removing the gunk, there is a lot more gunk than patina, but there will be plenty of character left in the top.  I have one metal dog that came with it which could be original, looks as if the ridges on the face were hand stamped. 

   It also is a narrow bench, about 12", with one row of dogs so I was considering widening it if I find it to be a problem.

   Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

    

1. 
   joinerswork | Oct 09, 2008 12:01am | #7

   gettes,

   The top proper of my old bench is only about 13" wide.  This fairly heavy plank has heavy battens attached to its ends, that extend past the top and support a thinner board, held flush to the top's top surface, which makes the bench effectively about 24" wide.

   Ray

2. 
   dkellernc | Oct 09, 2008 11:23pm | #8

   Just a comment on refinishing old benches in general.  If the bench has an identified maker (such as E. W. Carpenter - several of these have sold at antique tool auctions in the last few years) or an identified history, such as the antiques at Old Salem, then they can be worth quite a bit of money, and it's best not to touch them to preserve the value.

   However, even if a bench is quite old, if it doesn't have an identified history or an association with a famous cabinet maker, they're just not all that valuable.  So sacrilegious or not, you're not out a large sum if you refinish it and use it.  And it's probably better than winding up holding up the buffet table at a Cracker Barrel.

1. 
   derekborne | Oct 09, 2008 11:46pm | #9

   Isn't the bench worth what the guy wants out of it. What is the fliping deal with having to preserve an "antique" so you can maintain it's top dollar? Let the guy use the bench, burn it, or what ever.
   DerekAlright, now I finished reading your post and it actually doesn't cheese me off at all. I am having one of those days. Derek

   Edited 10/9/2008 4:48 pm ET by derekborne

1. 
   dgreen | Oct 10, 2008 12:12am | #10

   Watching the stock market are you??  :) 

    

   ................................................

   Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot

2. 
   derekborne | Oct 10, 2008 12:18am | #11

   Not really,

   But I do work for a company in canada that manufacteurs windows and sells them to the US.  needless to say we are not doing to good.  400+ layoffs in the past months.

    

   Derek

3. 
   dgreen | Oct 10, 2008 01:38am | #12

   One of the cabinet companys I make parts for just laid off 50% of it's workforce. 

    

   ................................................

   Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot

4. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Oct 10, 2008 02:45pm | #13

   Derek,

   That wouldn't be Bonneville perchance? 

   They used to have a small manufacturing facility here in my very little hometown, just 10 miles from Quebec, and they closed the doors back during a previous economic downturn.

   Regards,

    Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

5. 
   derekborne | Oct 10, 2008 02:58pm | #15

   nope,Steinbach Manitoba, the company is loewen windows

6. 
   gettes | Oct 12, 2008 04:26pm | #18

   Thanks for all the input.  I decided to sand some of the gunk off the top, you couldn't even see any wood grain, and just clean it up a little and use it as is.  I haven't seen any maker's mark on the bench, I do some antique tool collecting which is why I was so apprehensive in doing anything to the bench.  I did want to use the bench for surface prep on wood which is why I was considering flattening the top but I can use my work countertop for that. 

   Again, thanks to everyone for the input. 

7. 
   Thorvald | Oct 13, 2008 05:33am | #19

   I have one more suggestion for you.  As long as the bench is functional as is and it's the sort of bench you want to work on, why not use it for as long as it takes to build a reproduction?  When you're done with the new one, you can put the old one in a corner of the shop and use it for something else -- you'd have your before and after at the same time.   

   One of the first serious projects I took on when I started was to build a bench.  It was a great experience, but I wish I'd had an venerable old bench like you have to work on!  Would have been so much better than the B&D Workmate I used.

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Oct 10, 2008 02:55pm | #14

   I agree with you. 

   If the bench, or any tool for that matter, is in any way collectible/valuable it should be left alone.  To me there is a distinction between what we want in terms of a tool to use and a tool that has significant historical value.  It's way easy to make a bench to fit our needs but is impossible to replace an heirloom.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   dkellernc | Oct 10, 2008 04:57pm | #16

   Yeah, that was sort of my point.  With respect to what Derek said, I find nothing wrong with restoring or using a tool, even if it has collector's value, so long as you know the consequences.  It's just that there are a number of cases that I see where someone heavily restores or refinishes a tool where they don't realize that they've lost a lot of money as a collector's item, and where they could've gotten an equivalent tool that will work just as well in the shop, and pocketed a good deal of extra cash.

   A good example of this is a Yankee plow plane made in the late 18th century.  If it's unmarked, it's worth about $300 - $800 depending on its condition.  On the other hand, one marked "Cesar Chelor" recently sold on e-bay for $8500.  I suspect most people would rather sell a Cesar Chelor, buy an unmarked Yankee plow for the shop, and pocket the extra $8000.

   I've not yet seen a mistake this bad, but sanding, refinishing and replacing the fence on that same Chelor plow would reduce its value to about $1500, and it might be extremely hard to sell in that condition.