My next “big” tool purchase will be my first jointer. I had all but decided on a 6″ Delta, but have read and heard some who say 6″ is insufficient (I’m only a hobbyist). So, for those of you with many moons of experience, and even those without, if you had to go out and buy your first jointer knowing what you do now, what would you buy and why?
I’m also not opposed to combo planer/jointer machines like the new Jet if any of you have experience with those. Power supply is a non-issue. I’d rather not spend a ton on just a jointer, but would feel more justified if I were getting a planer out of it too.
Curt
Replies
I had a 6" and upgraded to an 8" and upgraded again to a 12". Except for some exotics, almost all the rough sawn lumber that I ever bought was wider than 6". I'd definitely go with an 8.
You definitely have many options in front of you. I had a delta 6" that frustrated me for years to the point of using a LN #7. I saved for well over a year to get an upgrade. I considered old machines as well as new. I looked at dovetail design .vs. parallogram, and HSS .vs. carbide cutters. There are trade offs for all these. In the end, I went with the Grizzly G609 12" with HSS blades. I've really liked it so far. I have 220 so the bigger ones are not a problem. It was about 1800 total (if memory serves from December), but when they say get as wide a jointer as you can afford, do it! You will never say "boy I messed up by getting the bigger jointer." For me, Grizzly was the best buy and its a rock solid machine. I've got a bunch of other grizzly stuff so I figured it would be a good tool. I did look for an old machine, but the drawback was most are 3 phase (requires phase converter) and there is always the possibility of hidden issues that can drive up the cost. Now if your a fixit kind of guy, and like tinkering, that's good. I prefer to spend my time differently. You can get some good deals occasionally if the time is right. Anyway, I bought the grizz parallogram and would get it again in a heart beat, which is the best feedback I can give. Good luck with the quest!
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Hi Curt, I started with an old 4" and moved up to a 6" delta. I am now considering an 8" because of the volume of wood that I process (in building kitchen doors). I have been very pleased with the 6", as it has very decent power (with sharp blades), an is long enough to joint 7' boards. The only short coming is the width, but you can get around it by removing the gaurd and rotating the board on those extra wide boards. I would recommend you spend the extra $$ elsewhere and get the 12 1/2" delta planer. Add to that a 3HP cabinet saw and you are in business.... Somebody will want to buy the jointer when you are ready to move up to an 8". You've got to start somewhere.
Nathan
Curt,
may I suggest avoiding the Delta? I'vehad some really bad experiance with that brand and that caused me to try Grizzly..
Since I used Grizzly I've had near perfect equipment that came out of the crate that way and has worked flawlessly ever since..
My Grizzly was built right down the street from your Delta .
Now as to width. It's the old story buy a 6 inch you'll soon want larger but at some point the price gets too high.. A 6 inch Grizzly starts at $335 unless you want the bench top which is only $199. The 8 Inch Grizzly starts at $695 and the 10 inch goes for $1695 You can go all the way to 16Inch with the spiral head for $5395.
I wouldn't buy another Delta tool if they came with a gold brick.
I have had nothing but trouble with my brand new, lightly used Delta band saw. Their customer service sucks. They completly ignore email. If you can find a phone number it goes to a "call center" where people with bad attitudes tell you you have to contact your local "service center". The service center is open from 8 to 5 Monday thru Friday, (so much for a working guy getting there.)
When you do take some time off and go there the service manager will tell you to "bring it in" and he'll look at it. Right, I'm going to dismantle the saw, pack it in my SUV and haul it across town. Not likely.
If you are going to buy Delta my advise would be to make sure you have lots of files, hacksaw blades, emery paper, shims and time. You'll need them because you are buying a kit, not a tool. You might have good luck with Delta, I didn't.
North....... I must have gotten my Delta stuff that was made in the middle of the week! Only problem I've had was on the TS, & they came & fixed it post haste. Maybe the stuff you got was made on Friday or Monday??
James
I don't know, James, but I am FED UP with Delta. The trunions broke on my bandsaw. This is after it sat idle for 3 months. Apparantly the weight of the table is too much for the cheap, flimsy, chinese manufactured trunions to support. I don't even think the trunions are made of steel, they look like pot metal.
This is just the last in a long line of problems. I'm not saying all Delta tools are junk. But all of the junk tools I have are Deltas.
North..... I just looked it up. I bought my Delta BS 6-13-97. It was moved from Ohio to FL. It sits unused (6) months out of the year, (during summers).while I'm in MI. Not a problem one! Maybe I've just been lucky??
James
Go at least 8".
John
I second that. For years I had a 6 inch jointer. More often than not the extra 1-2 inches would have made a big difference in the projects.Now that I have an 8 inch machine, I really have not (so far) come across a need for anything bigger. Just my work flow is all.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
see what sizesz you run through there the most and there's your answer. I personally would say 8"
Ductape can fix EVERYTHING!!!
The Jet 12" Jointer/Planer is not a hobbyists tool. I have one in the store and consider it basically a stock prep machine. Taking rough lumber to roughly dimensioned boards. It would surly not be my choice for finish type work. And it runs about $2100.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Marti,
When considering the size of a jointer, think long and hard about the size of stock you plan to mill with it. You can't joint stock wider than 6" on a 6" jointer. You can, however, use your thickness planer, which will likely be atleast 12" wide. This does involve a sled and shims to fully support the board as you feed it through the planer, but if you only deal with boards wider your jointer can handle once in a blue moon, this may be the most practical. Don't just consider the maximum width of stock you mill, but also the length. You can straighten stock as long as the jointer. However, with properly set outfeed supports, you can joint longer boards. Have a look at the weight of different jointers. Benchtop models can weigh less than 75lbs and 12" jointers can weigh in excess of 1000 lbs.
I have never had a combo machine, but I like the idea of having both a 12" planer and a 12" jointer in the same compact footprint.
I bought Delta's 8" Jointer (DJ20) last summer. I had some problems with the beds so I called their customer service. They referred me to an autorized service technician who came to my shop and assessed the situation. I brought it back to the store I bought it from. However, they stopped carrying that model so I just got my money back. At the last woodworking show, the DJ20 was there, as was the tech. who inspected my machine. He understood what I had been through and sold the floor model for dirt cheap. With the included rebate and free gift card on top of the bargain, I probably got it for about cost, if not less. Bottom line: service has been everything I could expect. I live in Canada if that makes any difference.
Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Marti,
Depending on your long term objectives, there may be other alternatives to a jointer.
You pay as much for a straight board as you do a crooked one, so that is a good place to start. Pick your wood carefully.
Of all of the dimensioning machinery, the jointer is the most limited.
I am, like you a hobbiest. I had to have my jointer. I have an 8" X 73" 450lb machine that does its job very nicely. It is in the way a lot of the time.
If I had seen the FWW article on using a benchtop planer and a sled before I bought the jointer that is what I would have today.
Why:
1. One machine, 2 applications
2. One machine, one maintenance worry and expense
3. Floor Space. Even a 24" planer would take up less floor space.
3. Safety. The planer self feeds, no hands passing over the knives
4. Consistency. The planer feeds the work at a steady rate and pressure.
5. The sled allows you to support the work along its length so it will not shift as the one face is being surfaced.
Reference: Flatten Boards without a Jointer
A sled lets you use just your planer to mill lumber to any thickness
by Keith Rust FWW 175
I also have an 18" V drum sander which will deliver a surface that is sanded flat not cut. This unit takes up slightly more space than benchtop planer, but gets regular use. I still use the planer for thickness and a parallel opposite face.
Lots to consider Marti, but I am of the opinion that the jointer is a machine that has little use in the one man hobby shop.
Don
I'm also not opposed to combo planer/jointer machines..
I do NOT have one BUT Takes up much less shop space.. I have a Ridgid 6" and a so called crap 13" planer that cost 'little' and works great.. BIG BOX on from China..
If you can afford it AND still feed the children GET IT!
I'm really taking a hard look at the Grizzly G0586. Looks like a pretty good machine. Any of you guys have one?
I noticed some reviews (this website included) recommend the spiral cuttinghead, but that model runs an extra $400! Is it worth that much more on a $700 jointer? Why or why not?
I also ran into some confusion that maybe you guys can help with. The G0586 and the G0656 seem very similar (except for the motor size and a mobile base). The mobile base on the G0656 seems like a nice feature. There's not a lot of info on the G0656 since it's kind of new.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0656
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0586
What do you folks think?
I have a 22" jointer and couldn't be happier...
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52414&cat=1,41182,52515
Takes up very little room in the shop, isn't limited to a certain size of board and works like a champ...
I posted my tutorial on face planing and edge planing over at my blog.
If you aren't a commercial shop, it's an excellent option.
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
Dear Tom,
HEY! Those are great!............................ as doors stops...........................Just kidding................................................ well sort of...........................Cool Website!Best,John
Hardee har har... :DThey make better wall decorations...Tom Iovino
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
Amen.
It's a constant race: jointer vs. planer. If you get a 6" you'll want 8, get an 8 you'll want 12. You won't be happy until your jointer is the same width as your planer, but at that point you'll have spent $2k on a 12" jointer and $300 on a lunchbox planer and you'll be looking to increase the size of your planer. The chase never ends. The answer must be the combo, right? I personally would never consider getting a J/P combination if I didn't have another jointer in the shop. I go from one to the other way too much (maybe that's just me).
The answer for a hobbiest is obvious. Get a couple hand planes. The options are then limitless. You won't need to enter the race.
Right on, Brotha. Seriously, if you don't have to meet a production schedule, get yourself set up with some planes. That's the way to do it.If you do run a production shop, however, drop some dough on the heavy iron.Tom Iovino
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
MattinPA
Doesn't work for every hobbiest.. I have 50,000 bd.ft. of wood to turn into a house.. I could do it by hand plane but I'm already pushing 60.
Portable power planes cut that down to near reasonable work load but it's still nice to set one board in one end and walk around to pull another one out out of the planer..
Plus not everybody has the skill needed to plane stuff perfectly flat and even thickness.
I've seen some one inch thick boards turen into 5/8ths thick in vain attempts to make flat and even..
Power does have it's advantages.. sure some of you guys have the skill and laugh at those of us who lack that same skill. But we've replaced that skill with equipment and you can't keep us out of the hobby!
You really add a lot to these threads. Pretty soon you'll be talking at us about welfare again. I can't wait.
Obviously planers and jointers have their advantages...obviously. You won't believe it, but I have one of each (and use them). I used to want an 8" jointer. Then I realized that I was born with the skill to plane. Oh, wait...that took practice.
Just read the threads above, most of people that responded are in the race.
MattinPA
Thank you for making my point for me..
" Oh wait, that took practice"
So how much wood should a person chop up learning how to plane? Do all people learn at the same rate? Does everybody who wants to get into woodworking need to have your dedication to the process or can someone who is more interested in the goal be allow to work wood?
I'd assume that in addition to learning the proper procedure for planing you should also be required to learn how to sharpen your plane irons as well as flattening the sole of your plane, right?
But wait,, we need something to plane on, It's not very satisfactory trying to plane a piece of wood sitting on the garage floor so a work bench is called for.. a work bench with a vise perferably.. since we have no skill yet that is something that would have to be purchased.
So we have the price of a vise, a workbench, a plane, and the equipment to sharpen it and flatten the sole as well. Compare those costs to a jointer.. Seems like a person could just pay their money and take their choice doesn't it?
It really amounts to are you a process or goal type person.. Clearly you are of the process school while I am of the goal school.. no wonder we don't get along..
What point did I prove for you? you stated in your previous post that a plane wasn't a viable option for many because they lacked the skill required. It takes practice, of course. Nobody ever started with the skill required...ever. Be careful, you're starting to take what people say out of context again...
As for the rest of your post...I hope everybody on this forum knows how to sharpen a chisel or intends to learn. Thus, sharpening equipment is already owned.
A bench is desirable for so many more reasons than hand planing.
As for process vs. product type of person. I assure you that I'm more concerned about the pieces that come out of my shop than the equipment that goes in. I would get a larger jointer or planer if I could justify the expense. Making chairs, casework, tables, etc. as a hobby, to me, could not justify the purchase of a 12" jointer.
Planes should be considered in the context of this thread for the reasons I stated previously.
Excellent Tom,
With careful wood selection, the amount of surfacing required should be minimal.
This is a safer and healthier approach to flattening that first face.I don't use my planes as often as I should and I have been eying that Veritas beauty for some time.I would still use a mechanical planer to tweak the faces.If I can't sell my 8" jointer for a decent price, I can use it as a base for a workbench extension.Don
Oh, Don, I use a thickness planer for the grunt work... but I use the plane to get that first flat face. Works nice - not too Neanderthal, not too Norm...Tom Iovino
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
I get a lot of mileage out of my 8" General (not General International). I think the castings are equivalent to the pre-1980 Deltas. I really wish it would have come with a rack-and-pinion fence, but past that, it's a good, flat workhorse.
I think 8" is a good compromise size. It's probably big enough for most of the hardwood boards you're likely to joint (although I'm always pushing the edge...).
For the occasional 10" board, I remove (gasp!) the guard, joint 8" of the face and then hand plane the 2" strip flush. It's a good way to start a shop session - beats turning up the heat!
-t
Curt,
I would think that your choices as far as tools are concerned should be guided by the kind of work that you typically do and perhaps by the size of the wood that you typically work with. Every woodworker has different needs and as such what works for me might not work for you. Yeah, I'm a big help right?
No matter what size XYZ tool you get you will invariably end up in situations where you will say, "Oh crap, that board won't fit my XYZ. What do I do now?".
Some feel comfortable with grabbing their hand planes and resolving the problem whilst other will merrily dance off to the local cabinetmakers shop and pay them to surface that piece of wood.
If you typucally deal with boards that are 6" wide then if it were me I would most likely buy an 8" joiner. Also, I like the idea of separate machines as opposed to a joiner/planer as I feel it gives me more flexibility.
I guess my point is that there is no one size fits all. Take the experiences of others and couple what you can with your needs to arrive at your own decision. In reality that's what you'll end up doing in the long run anyway.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
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