Just wondering if anyone has any must haves or must do’s when building a router table. I got the plan from the New Yankee workshop and it looks like a good one, but what do I know? Also if you have built a router table from these same plans do you have any tips or ideas that are not expressed on the video or plan? In the plans it tells you exact dimensions I should cut all the pieces. But should I try and cut them all at once? I would not think so. So where do I start? The top, the cabinet?
Kenney66
Replies
I have made several router tables. For myself and friends.. I do not know about Norm's table but sure it is a good one..
I would suggest you decide on the router plate' lift..... whatever first...
Then you can modify the plans for your needs...
I would suggest that you make the table top as LARGE and as flat as possible..
If the top is not FLAT... nothing works!
I do not have one but I like the idea of Lee-Valleys metal plate
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=41793&cat=1,43053,43885
Edited 4/1/2005 12:06 pm ET by Will George
I have built a router table with cabinet from WoodSmith plans. I would agree with Will make the top as large as is comfortable given your space considerations and it has to be "Dead Flat"! By that I mean, no more than a few thousandths sag at the router bit or you will see it in any edge profiles and in any joint work that you do. One way to get a flat top is to make provision in the cabinet for some adjustment screws. Here is what I mean:
My cabinet had air slots between the 4 corners at the top edge so the top was only supported and attached at the corners. With a double thickness of Kitchen counter top (back to back) you would think this would be fine but no, the weight of the top and the router caused it to sag in the center. So I added a threaded insert in the top edge of each of two cabinet sides (on the infeed and outfeed cabinet sides). Into those inserts I screwed a 1/4" flat head bolt. The head of the bolt was adjusted up to apply pressure on the underside of the top to remove the sag. This worked.
Maybe Norm's plans support the top around the entire periphery. In any case, check your top flatness before mounting to the cabinet and then again after final mounting to make sure that it is still flat. If you don't have a good (accurate) straight edge and an auto feeler gage to do this, then buy them, you will use them again and again.
Made one.
I built Norm's table with some minor modifications. His plans called for the top to be a piece of 1/2 mdf sandwiched with a 3/4 piece of mdf. I used two 3/4 pieces. I also changed from a toe-kick setup to putting it on casters. For the fence I went with the incra twin-linear. The glass front is an idea shared by another member of knots that I saw in the forum. The plans are good. I also got the video. For me it helped, but some people may be able to just look at the plans and go with it. The diminesions are accurate and I enjoyed building it. I use it regularly. There is plenty of storage. I got the casters and slides from woodcraft. I sold the plans and video after I built mine here in the classified for half the cost of new. Here is a link to my post of the final product.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=20473.1
Good luck and go for it.
Kenny... I built Norm's first router table some time ago now, modifying it to add castors; over the years it's proven itself time after time to be a damn good design...
re build sequence, I found that provided you mark each piece as you cut it, you can build in any sequence you want... I found it both an educational and enjoyable project...
With hindsight, the only improvement I'd make to it is to modify the top to make it compatible with Pat's fence; though Norm's fence is nice and robust, fine adjustment is a bear... something that Pat's fence can handle with ease...
Additionally, I'd ensure that the router compartment has provision for plenty of air-flow through it, not so much for chip extraction, but more for cooling the router. To date my only prob with my Freud was through overheating when in the table; adding a 4" port to hook it to my DC has solved that prob...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Yeah, I made an enclosed 4' x 4' x 8' rolling workbench and put the router in one end of it.
I store all my smaller lumber pieces below and have all my small tools distributed around 4 sides of the bench top, all plumbed to my DC. (small tools - bench top drill press, grinder, router, lathe, overhead drum sander, spindle sander)
I cut a circular 1/4" x 10" aluminum plate for the router plate and imbedded it into the table top. Have a 12" x 12" x 12" box below with the DC plumbing to it.
At night I roll it to the side so my wife's car can come in.
Handiest darn thing I ever made!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
First thing to consider is why a router table? If you're going to devote the space in your shop to a single-purpose object of that size, why not go all the way and get a shaper? If you don't have enough work to justify the shaper, then combining a drop-in plate into something else may be a better way to go.
What I did was put one of those blue aluminum plates from Rockler into the extension on my table saw. It's adequate for the small amount of work I need it for at the moment. I just grooved the edges of my casement sash for weatherstripping on it. The downside is that using either the saw or the router table ties up both machines, so you can't leave a setup on one and use the other. It depends on what and how much you're doing.
-- J.S.
John and Steve: Although they do the same general thing, a shaper does not simply replace a router table and obviate the need for one. This article at Benchmak.com is the best I've ever seen discussing the shaper vs. router table question. The second paragraph in the summary says it well, but read the rest of the article:
IIRC, Kenny didn't indicate any special requirements that would dictate the need for a shaper. Guiding him off in that direction before he has a router table is an unnecessary obfuscation (It's Saturday, Car Talk Day!). Ok, obfuscation isn't the right word. Confusication, how's that?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
OK, I'll open the can of worms. Why not just get a shaper? Add up the cost of all the router table parts and I bet the cost of the a shaper is not a lot different.
I understand what you are saying....but aren't shaper bits quite a bit more expensive than router bits. I would love to know. I am in the same camp router table vs. shaper.
thanksThank you,
The Great Marko
Not really marko. Most shapers these days come with a collet that allows you to use standard 1/2" and 1/4" shank router bits in your shaper. Actual shaper cutter are a little more expensive usually, but not much.
Steve
Dirt-
Do you use a shaper in your shop? What big advantages does a shaper have over a router table. I am trying to justify a shaper---but I just do not know much about them. I have heard that shapers are more unsafe than a router table--what do you think? Any and all info would be valuable.
If shapers are the better way to go--- why are router tables more popular?
Thanks for the info-
Thank you,
The Great Marko
marko,
I bought my shaper to replace a router table I had put into the outfeed table on my old TS.
My shaper is a 3hp. Delta, and with some extra table extensions and some other goodies, I paid $750 used. I've seen two sell for that price now, so I think it's a fair price.
It has a bunch of power, more then I've needed so far. It weighs probably 400 pounds, so it is nice and stable. The fence is simple and effective. The depth adjustments are very easy to use. Open the hood and you see a better motor then any router, massive amounts of cast iron, and a load bearing that looks like it could double for an axle bearing on a truck. It's all around a MUCH more robust piece of equipment then any router table will be. It'll sure handle my Bosch panel raising bit a lot easier then my old setup.
I don't think either a shaper or a router table is more dangerous then the other. They both have the potential to bite you pretty badly. In my experience though, accidents happen more often on a machine being pushed beyond its limits then on a machine well within its capibilities. Because a shaper has more capacity then a router table, I suppose a router table might be more dangerous if you use that assumption.
I think router tables are so popular becase we all seem to start with a router inset into a table, which we improve with a lift, then a while later we add a great fence, ect. Kind of a slippery slope. This however seems like a false economy to me, because if you add up the cost of an average router table, including lift, router, fence, materials ect, even assuming your time is free, the table can easily cost as much or even more then a decent shaper.
Before you shell out the bucks for either, try to find one of each to try out. The first time I tried my shaper out, I set it up to do a raised panel door. I switched it on and it sounded so nice and quiet. Just like a cabinet saw under no load. The first cut I made was the end of a stile, and it just floored me how much easier it worked then my old setup. I won't go back to a router table.
Best of luck, hope that helps.
Steve
Marko,
Safer? Hmmm, I've seen too many flimsey and awkward router tables to ever agree to that. Most are very awkward to turn on and off unless special measures are taken. Most have very crude and awkward means of adjusting them unless you spend so much for good quality lift table that you can easily buy a shaper..
As to why router lift tables are more popular? It's because wood workers tend to be penny wise and pound foolish. Most of us are so cheap we save our scraps! Ask us to invest in a new tool that the wife doesn't understand the need for and we get all sorts of clever at adapting.. Plus there is the psycology involved. A little lift table doesn't seem to be any great purchase but ask them to spend the same or less money on a stationary tool and they suddenly worry that their skills might not be worthy of such a commitment..
Marko, hope you took the time to read the article I linked to above.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Marko,
well sorta,, in that yes they are more expensive but they stay sharp much longer and it pays to resharpen them. You can also get an adapter that allows the use of router bits to add to your profile inventory at a modest cost.. Thus if you have thousands of dollars worth of router bits you can use a shaper and get all of it's benefits without splurging for a whole new inventory..
I just looked at the Grizzly catalog and the same set of router bits for a router and a shaper were the same price. if you want to tongue and grove panels with a router it's $49.95 and the shaper is $49.95 (green grade)
Grizzley also offers purple grade stuff @$79.95 and then their best micro grain stuff @ $199.95 the list of purple grade stuff is limited for a router and they don't offer the micro grade bits at all for a router..
In answer to your question re: shapers vs. router tables: If you're making a lot of rail/stile doors with raised panels, the shaper is a way better way to go. And yes, typically shaper bits are quite a lot more expensive than router bits. But if you get a shaper that can accept router bit collets, you get around this problem. I think routers are more popular than shapers mainly because of the versatility and portability. In an ideal world, you would have both a shaper and a router table. But if you only have the space or the budget for one, I would argue that a router table is the the better alternative. It will do a lot of things well, and the bit manufacturers have stetched the router's capability into the realm of the shaper -- such as stiles/rails and raised panels. But certainly, there is a loss of efficiency. However, to get into that shaper territory, you really need one of those big 3 hp routers -- which will set you back somewhere around $300. And that's the price point where you need to start asking yourself questions about buying a shaper instead.
nikkiwood,
I think if we are talking apples to apples then router bits are the same price that shaper bits are (look above for my examples) sure there are those bargin basement bits that you get when you own a router and you won't find those available for a shaper.
You probably have a point that routers are more common because they cost less to start with and once someone owns one he'll eventually need the use of a router table to do stuff. At that point he doesn't evan think about buying a shaper.. (failure to think outside the box)
I am courious, my old shaper had a 3/4 hp motor and yet I could use great big shaper cutters and it would sail right through the wood. Yet if I put anything close to that size on my big 3 HP router aside from the fear factor it had to be carefully babied or would stall out.. Too often I wound up burning the wood because I couldn't get the router to take a decent sized bite without stalling.
My question is, is a 3/4 hp 220 volt shaper more powerfull than the 110 volt 3 hp router? simply because of the better gearing the shaper has?
Yes. This is because routers (and shop vacs) are rated by peak horsepower, which is roughly the power it might develop if you clamped the bit in a vise, immediately before the router caught fire. Shapers, table saws and everything else are rated by the power they can actually sustain.
I would imagine it is the torque generated by an induction motor vs. a universal motor -- don't you think?
> is a 3/4 hp 220 volt shaper more powerfull than the 110 volt 3 hp router?
Yes, because the shaper is 3/4 real continuous hp, while the router is phony baloney advertising 3 peak instantaneous if you fudge enough hp. They seem to vary by a factor of about 10 to 20, so by phony advertising ratings, the shaper is maybe 7.5 to 15 hp.
Another way to look at it is to figure out how many amps things would have to draw. One horsepower equals 746 amps, so if the router motor were 100% efficient (it's not), it would draw 18.65 amps under full load. The starting surge from a real 3 hp motor on 120 volts would blow a 20 amp fuse or trip a breaker. If you could start it, given the efficiency is maybe 85%, it would also trip the breaker before you could load it all the way.
-- J.S.
You are on the right track. A year ago I built Norm's new and improved version of the router table. It is fantastic! Use it a good bit.
Now, the only change I made was a result of using Jessem's Mast R Fence (I also used Jessem's Mast R Lift). That meant I had to modify the NYW plans and make the cabinet and table top 2 inches less in width. No big deal. If you are going to make your own fence you won't need to modify the cabinet and top.
Also, if you are willing to pay extra and wait a little time, Jessem will make you a 4 foot version of their fence. I learned this later.
Either way you go, the NYW plans (Norm's) are rock solid, totally functional, and you wind up with tons of storage for bits and routers.
Alan - planesaw
I have just finished the router table that you were asking about. If you take your time, make sure the table is DEAD FLAT and follow the plans you will find that it is an outstanding design. I did make one modification to the design. I found that when I'm rousing a groove or dado the dust that escapes collection invariably ends up in the wrench drawer so I attached a thin cover to the under side of the slot for the fence bolts.
Also, I found that I could get remnant pieces of high pressure laminate from a local shop at $1.00 a square foot, a lot cheaper than an entire sheet at home depot and no large leftovers to store.
Rusty
Hi Kenney. You're not getting as many responses as I'd expected on this. People must be real busy this weekend. So, though I've not built that table, I'll pass along the fact that I've seen many, many posts from people over the years from people who have built Norm's table, and they seem to love it!
If you look at this Google Search, you'll see many comments from a variety of different forums. I picked up a couple things just glancing through the hits: (1) It seems there may be a new version and (2) Did you know there's a place called routerforums.com?? I didn't!
As far as the all-important "flat top" goes, I would encourage you to look at the Veritas Router Table Top, which is all-steel and has a universal router mounting place, eliminating the need for making a plate and then having to change it when (when not if) you decide to get a different router.
This top is not a plate (there's been some confusion on that in the past), it's a top. It sits on top of a frame, with the edges extending outside the frame. It could easily be incorporated into a cabinet-type design such as Norm's.
Here is a link to my original set-up of that table top, which is not a cabinet design. Since those pictures were taken, I've put cast iron wings and an overhead DC on my table saw (mini-gloat). Also, the links are outdated. To see the Veritas top at the Lee Valley site, click here and then click on the link for the top. If, in the end, you still want a traditional top, but like the universal mounting system, consider their plate, which is found here.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 4/2/2005 10:32 am ET by forestgirl
You might get some ideas from this link..http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=16020
Hi Woodhead, welcome to Knots!!! I'm sure your post was meant for Kenney66 -- you'll want to be sure you select the right person from the "To:" list so they see your post if the look for "Unread messages to Me." Actually, the quickest way to do this is to respond to a post from that person. For instance, you would have responded to Post #1 in this thread, from Kenney66.
Thanks for the link!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I am just finishing the same project,(provided it is the updated one). I purchased the hardware kit from Rockler along with the Aluminum router plate. My advice is to use the video as a step by step guide and pay attention to seemingly unimortant statements. For example the hardest part of the project was calculating the size of the template, and choosing the correct bushing and router bit for routing the indent for the router plate. Norm does mention this on the video so pay attention. It is a very satisfying project. With regards to cutting there are many ways of doing it. Since this is not a fine furniture project I ended up using odds and ends of cabinet plywood for the cabinet so I cut a few pieces at a time.
Good Luck,
Stewart
Let me echo FG's suggestion about the Veritas table top; she put me onto it about 6 months ago and I am happy as a clam with it. You can build anything around it and it gets you away from having to buy a router lift. There are plans that come with the top for either a stand or a table; you should give it a look.
"it gets you away from having to buy a router lift." I don't follow that comment, Alex. As you know, I'm happy that you're happy with the Veritas, as otherwise, you'd come over and steal my walnut or somethin', but I'm not understanding how that table top eases any hankering for a router life.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
It doesn't ease the "hankering" for a router lift (for those always "hankering") but with the tilt and open stand, it is very easy to reach in and make adjustments right on my router. Considering how I want to allot my "tool money", a router lift ends up near the bottom of the list.
" Considering how I want to allot my "tool money", a router lift ends up near the bottom of the list." Ditto!!
I tend to thing of the lifts as partially a matter of convenience, but primarily for being able to make very tiny adjustments to bit height. I really think that someday I'll but the new PC that has above-the-table adjustment built in, and drill the necessary hole in the Veritas table. Won't be tomorrow, though, LOL! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I am with you on the new PC router, it looks very nice. I have a Bosch that has a fine adjustment on the side and with the open stand, it is not a problem. Thanks again for your suggestion.
Sag is your enemy. If you can't pop the router out of the table at the end of the day, then support it from underneath. I keep a router jack under my old table; it's pre-insert. And it helps with height adjustment.
Joe
My router table is built into the right side of my table saw and features a flip top table and total dust collection.
Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
I agree with John sprung, why build a lift table when what you really want is a shaper?
Grizzley sells one for $265.00 that's similar to my first shaper.. did a lot of stuff on that untill the old BIGGER! wispered to me..
Using a router to act like a shaper is like kissing your sister. Not very satisfactory..
Kenney66,
I built the older NYW router station about 4 years ago. I found that the DC was excellent. As built, a shop vac does a good job. I found the make up holes a bit small for a 4" or bigger hookup so you may want to consider making them larger based on your DC and the hood(s) you plan on using.
I would also look at increasing the overhang of the table top. I find that I like to use clamps to hold stops or feather boards to the top and the small 1 or 2" lip isn't really large enough.
I think others already mentioned the mobility issue. The cabinet is quite heavy so if you need to move it around, you may want to consider some wheels.
As far as construction, don't cut everything at once. Do it in phases and cut the pieces as you need them. I would cut out the materials and build the carcass first. Then cut and fit the drawers. Then work on the table and then the fence. Just follow along in the same order as the video and you'll be fine.
All things considered, it is an excellent project.
--Rob
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