Anyone had Carpel Tunnel surgery?
Hey folks, i know this isn’t a medical site, but figured some of you may have been in my situation before.
I’ve been dealing with carpel tunnel in both hands for almost a year now, I work a 45+ hour a week job at a desk and four years of typing have taken their toll. I’ve been taking medication and sleeping with splints but they don’t seem to be making a huge difference. I’ve cut back almost completely on woodworking, just a few minutes here and there, and i rarely touch my guitars (i’ve played for 20 years, went to school for music performance, so that really hurts)
My doctor is just a general practitioner and isn’t an expert, but he has cautioned me about going for the surgery. He says it usually works, but there’s a decent chance that i could permanently lose feeling and strength in my hands, something a woodworking musician doesn’t want to hear. But right now, i can’t play at all, and it doesn’t seem to be getting better. I can’t even hold my kids for more then a minute or two.
ok, enough of my sob story, just thought i’d see if there were any people that had had the surgery, and what the long term results have been. If you’ve lost strenth, feeling, etc. Would you do it again?
thanks.
Replies
I had it done on my right hand about 20 years ago. I was off work about 6 weeks. My sister had both hands done 3 years ago & was back to work in less than 3 weeks. Hers was a completely different type of surgery. We would both would do the surgery again in a minute. Before I had my surgery done the Doctor told me I risked permanent nerve damage if I did not have it done.
My mom just completed her second surgery. Both had about a month recovery period. She has one segment of one finger with some lost feeling. She would do both hands again in a minute!
My brother-in-law is a chiropracter - his hands are his income. He had one hand done at a time, a year apart. Recovery on one was a little slow, but he wasn't behaving himself. He's fully functional now.
My wife had CT and so did a number of her associates - all computer programmers.
A number of them had really bad results from surgery; that was at least ten years ago, though. My wife decided that was a last resort, and tried acupuncture instead. It worked! While she was working, the CT would eventually recur and she would have to go in for more needling every few months. Now she's retired and the last treatments pretty much cured the problem - no pain or stiffness in her wrists at all for a few years now.
Don't know if that helps you make a decision or not. But I'd try acupuncture before going ahead with surgery. (I'd do almost anything before surgery!)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
mik-
Have you heard of the "bible thumping" cure for CT. If you haven't, this is going to sound wierd, a bit strange, far out, but it works. A couple of weeks ago I was talking with one of my daughters ,(lives out of town), and she was telling me about her bout with CT. A co-worker had the surgery and said he wouldn't have it done again. It was very painfull, left scars on his hand/wrist, and he lost time from work. She started looking for another alternative to surgery and found this old time cure for CT. She asked her doc if he had heard of it and he said he had,but couldn't say if it worked or not. She figured she didn't have much to lose by trying this cure ,so she went for it and it worked. The cure: all you have to do is strike the affected area a sharp blow from a heavy book. Hence the term "bible thumping". Most all old bible were big and heavy and they suited the purpose. She had a large gaglion (sp?) on her wrist and one sharp heavy blow from a large book ,she did it herself, was all it took. Almost imediately the swelling went down, the pain went away and she hasn't been bothered with it since. She said her first two tries didn't produce any results because she wasn't hitting it hard enough. So, she really wacked it on her third try and away went the CT. True story.
Something doesn't ring true here, Lost .....
Being a pipe smoker I tend to bang out my pipe on the palm of my hand. Once I hit the tendon at the base of my left ring finger, one that's consistently given me discomfort for the past year or so. Almost brought me to my knees. Couldn't curl my finger into a fist for several days.
Just where does one whack one's hand, wrist, forarm or whatever to make it quit hurting?
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
She wacked that swelling /ganglion (sp?) /protuberance or what ever you call it,that stuck out on her wrist, right dead on and within minutes the thing was gone and she hasn't had any problems since.Be not afraid of going slowly. Be afraid only of standing still. chinese proverb
Lostarrow,
You seem to be confusing carpal tunnel syndrome with ganglion condition. Carpal tunnel syndrome is caused by excess pressure on nerves where they exit the wrist into the hand.
I think the ganglion condition is caused by one of the small bones in the hand shifting out of position - and, yes, I am told the bible thumping treatment does work. But it would only aggrevate a true carpal tunnel condition.
Is there a doctor in the house?
Regards,
Dan
A ganglion cyst is caused by an out-pocketing of the membrane that contains synovial fluid and acts as a shock absorber/lubricant for joints. Like carpal tunnel syndrome, ganglion cysts are usually caused by some sort of repetitive motion. Me, I got mine in my right wrist from riding a motorcycle full time for several years (the right hand controls the accelerator with a twisting motion, for you non-bikers out there.
No bones are involved, although the cysts are very hard. They're usually harmless unless they inhibit range of motion of the joint (as mine did). Rupturing them, either by accident or on purpose typically results in a recurrence. Surgical removal is slightly more effective...mine had to be removed twice. Just so you use the right terminology, they're also called "Bible cysts" because of the holy book treatment approach.
Thanks. I wondered about them. My wife gets it from time to time.
Regards,
Dan
You're welcome. If you do a Google search on "ganglion cyst" (in quotes) you'll get far more than you ever wanted to know...plus pictures! Be sure to pour yourself a beer and tomato juice before you search, though, cause it's a wonderfully appropriate accompaniment.
I've suffered from carpal tunnel on and off for about 25 years. Lots of hammering , or anything that jars or vibrates the wrist (hammer drill) would have my hand numb in about an hour.
Check into Glucosamine Sulfate, it's a drug that attracts fluid to the joint and has kept me away from the knife. It's a non-presription drug and in my case has really worked!
Peter
BTW I pay a lot more attention to ergonomics in front of the computer at work since the surgery. I use the adjustible height and angle keyboard shelf and adjust the arm position to keep my arms properly supported. I also switched to trackball type mouse. They're hard to get used to but worth it. Plus they keep people off your computer and provide a little entertainment when the IT support people have to work the PC.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
I haven't read the rest of the responses here, so pardon if I'm redundant. I have had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands and would strongly recommend that you have the surgery if it's definitely what is wrong!!
When I had the surgery, it was done with an open incision. My understanding is that now they can do it through a scope and the trauma is much less and the recovery period much shorter.
The possibility of having something go seriously wrong is infinitesimal if you have a qualified hand surgeon do the operation. If you don't have the surgery, and you do have nerve compression in that hand, you are guaranteed to have permanent, irreversible nerve damage!
Get thee to a specialist (hand surgeon) and get all the appropriate evaluations done. If they recommend surgery, go for it. You will be pleased with the results (unless you've waiting too long and the damage is too severe). **Can't emphasize the "specialist" part enough.**
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 3/7/2004 2:52:01 PM ET by forestgirl
I saw you posts on this subject last September as well as now and I totally agree with your surgery comments. My surgeon on both hands was a neurosurgeon specialized in hands and brains. Did a great job.
Now the only problem I found is that surgery treats the symptom not the cause. The cause comes from the swelling of the tendon coverings that swell due to irritation caused by the tendons. In my case after about ten years this devoloped into a sort of cronic tendonitis in the wrists that no longer put pressure on the nerve but still hurt like hell.I tried all sorts of anti-inflamitory stuff including cortisone shots with little too no results. Then last year about when I saw your other posts I started a new therapy. I didn't make any comment at the time because I didn't have any results to comment on. Now I do. Bee Sting therapy, yeah honey bees, I did one sting per week locally on the bad wrist for one month, then one sting every two weeks for a month, then one a month for two months, after six months I have to do a booster. Bee poison contains one of the longest lasting, most powerful anti- inflamitories that exist, the stings also stimulate the immune system to repair existing damage.
Sounds weird but on me I went from 90% non use to 90% full use in just a few months. you can find a good bit of info on the net(at least I did in Italian) and I got a lot of good info from a friend of mine who is a bee keeper and has been doing this for years. It also works for other diseases where inflamation is involved.
I don't say do it but look at the alternatives and before you try it get tested for allergies to bee stings.
Philip
My surgeon on both hands was a neurosurgeon specialized in hands and brains. Did a great job.
Did he fix your Brain too! LMAO,sorry could not resist!If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh
HUH ??? You can't fix something that just ain't there to start with.
Philip
Ps. He did pull off a miracle on a soccer player for the Como team who got sever brain trauma in a locker room fight.
Here is another vote for acupuncture.
My wife had CT about 4 years ago, the local surgeon would offer no guarantees of success and actually suggested she consider the alternate/acupuncture cure. He said if it does not work come back and we will do the operation.
Three sessions with the needles, about a week apart, and she was cured. She will get some pain if she overdoes it but with a little consideration for ergonomics that seldom happens.
Yes,I made it. No,not hard. Yes, a long time.
Let me add my vote for accupuncture, at least as a start. I do not have CTS - for which I am most grateful - but have has some nasty bouts with tendonitus in my elbows and shoulder. My MD suggested heavy Motrin (3, 3 times a day, can;t imagine what that would do to liver etc.) and possibly surgery. Accupuncture was able to fix it.
Best of luck to you!
A woodworker going for surgery needs to make sure his surgeon gets his tools from Mr. Lee - yes, Leonard Lee of Lee Valley Tools. Mr. Lee has now retired from Lee Valley Tools leaving the business to be run by son Rob. However Mr. Lee is always busy and now has a company making surgical tools. The story I read indicated that the first tools developed by this company were in fact for hand surgery.
http://www.canica.com/who.htm
Also near the bottom of the page:
http://www.ontariocanada.com/ontcan/en/PDF_HTML/Priority-3/OBR-2001-Mar.htm
Just no stopping Canadians!
Edited 3/7/2004 6:48:57 PM ET by Corners
Edited 3/7/2004 6:52:10 PM ET by Corners
I've had both wrists done about three years ago and they were done a month apart from each other. For me, the pain from the surgery was equivelent to scuffing up my palms from a fall on asphalt. I know of another guy couln't even open a car door without screaming from the pain.
Since then, I have had mixed results about the procedure(s). The general practitioner that I went to does not really believe in the procedure and says it's a "new hype on a previously unheard of condition". I disagreed with him and found another doctor for treatment. What I have learned since then is that it is a case by case treatment that does not necessarily work, as in my case. It helped some, but not enough. Now I have less numbness, but I also have wrist pain that I didn't have too much of before. About a year ago, I was sent back to a neurologist for more EMG testing and they said the procedure should be redone and the previous surgeon's techinque was "probably done incorrectly". I have also been told that EMG testing is the best way to rule out injuries from other areas as in the elbow, forearm, shoulder, and neck. These other areas can send pain/numbness to the hands and this I know from first hand experience.
There are other things that can help prevent/postpone surgery. One is to wear wrist braces at night. Wear these things religously for 3 months and see where you stand. Another is to see a physical therapist who specializes in wrist and hand injury/rehab and have them teach you stretching/strengthening exercises.
If I had to do it all over again, I would still elect to have the surgery done. Just this time I would have it done by someone else.
Edited 3/7/2004 8:19:32 PM ET by migraine
Splints, anti-inflammatories, and physical therapy certainly can be combined to try and resolve CT without surgery. My personal take on physical therapy is that it can be tough in the United States to find a physical therapist who is skilled enough and knowledgeable enough to diagnose and treat any possible contributory problems that may spring, for instance, from upper back problems or thoracic outlet syndrome. You have to find someone who does way more than the traditional ultrasound/exercise approach.
I'm glad Migraine found another doctor! I observed my first surgery, as it was permformed, on an overhead monitor, and I could see the nerve compression with my own eyes. That combined with the fact that I hadn't been able to pick up a spoon for morning cereal for many months, and had persistent pain and numbness, are enough evidence for me that CT is real.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
OK, now. The Bible thing has nothing to do with carpal tunnel syndrome, so don't go bangin' yourself with holy books (that treatment is for ganglion cysts, and I prefer Gray's Anatomy as the instrument of choice).
Forest Girl is right...look to anti-inflammatories and splints at night. Ibuprofen is a good medication (Advil. Motrin, or generic). Don't take it for the pain but for the anti-inflammatory effect, which means taking as little as possible continuously. Like, one tablet every 6 hours. Religiously. If you drink excessively or have liver problems, even this amount of drug won't be a good idea, but you know your own situation.
But first, look to the reason you have the problem in the first place. Are you using a keyboard? Is it at desk height (~29-30")? If so, that's the problem. Your keyboard should be as low as possible so your wrists are absolutely straight when your elbows are at a greater than 90 degree angle. Lots of programmers put their keyboards on their laps...that's why! Same for the mouse...mousing from too high can cause ulnar neuropathy...much like tennis elbow (what is tennis, anyway?). Symptoms are a burnig sensation just below the elbow on the inside of your arm. Eventually, you lose sensation in your little and ring fingers.
Don't jump to surgery, friend, but make sure you've eliminated the cause of the problem and given your body time to heal first.
Lofton, I must correct an impression you may have made with "look to anti-inflammatories........."
I'm not tendering that advice specifically to the sufferer here (Mikkimel). If he were a close friend, and seeking my advice, I'd encourage him to get to a specialist now. I was just saying, earlier, that in general those 3 things could be combined to try and solve the problem in the early stages. Just my opinion, but a year of pain and dysfunction are enough already.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks for all the thoughts folks.
I've been dealing with CT for about a year now, it really hit me this summer and i had to take a week off of work cause i couldn't type, i couldn't control my hands. and the pain was horrible, i've done the splints at night, i've done the anti inflamitory's, i've done message, i was even stung by a bee a few months ago and it didn't seem to help ;o) My doctor is not one to push me into stuff, he's usually like "well, what do you WANT to do?" He basically said 8 months ago that we'd try the medication and splints, and if it doesn't bring you to a lifestyle that you can live with, we'll send you to a surgeon. Now, he knows my hobbies, and has said "you can't sit at a computer for ten hours, then go home and play guitar for two hours, then spend the rest of the night sanding in the garage, you need to cut down, try reading..."
But i can't live my life this way. I live for four things, God, my family, woodworking, and music. This week i played my guitar for a total of one hour, (i used to practice 10 hours a day in school without missing a beat) it was yesterday in church, today my hands hurt really bad. (so why are you typing you may be asking?")
I can only tinker in the garage for a few minutes, or i pay for it the next day or two. I can't even hold my 5 month old son for more then a few minutes. So, what kind of life is this? I love to read to, but on a nice spring day in nashville i want to be in the garage building something, not reading inside. I'm not wanting to be doing something with my hands every minute, but being able to relax with my guitar after work for a bit, or a few hours in the garage on weekend isn't too much to ask is it?
ok, enough with the sob story, the splints and meds don't really seem to be helping, if anything, they seem to make things worse. (although i have no scientific data to support this) I have the ergonomic keyboard at work, i have my desk set up to be as ergonomically correct as possible. The only thing i continue to do is smoke, which my doctor of course told me to quit, that aggrevates the condition, but i'm not having any luck with that right now.
Anyway, tomorrow i have an apt with my doctor to lay out the road ahead, i'm sure the EMG test is in my future, along with others. I'm not saying i'm sold on the surgery, but i'd at least like to start to move in that direction and see what it's all about.
anyhoo, thanks again for you input everyone! Keep discussing please!
Well, Sir, I honestly believe you're due some relief. Given all you've tried, surgery may be your best next option, and I hope you can locate a good surgeon for the job! I worry that whatever it is that caused the condition will bring about a recurrence after surgery, hence my earlier questions about repetitive motion at the keyboard. In other words, I hope you can not only fix the problem, but also identify the root cause of the problem. If nothing else, you ought to be able to hold yor little one for as long as you want. Best regards.
The surgery has come a long way in recent years. I used to work for a company that consulted with industry about workplace-related maladies and CTS was just coming to the forefront at the time. It wasn't invented by OSHA but did get incorrectly diagnosed quite a bit because of the Americans With Disabilities Act, which was developed by OSHA. The most common misdiagnosis was tendonitis, which has similar symptoms but wasn't considered a disability under the act. CTS was, and so certain less than ethical doctors, attorneys, and factory workers conspired to increase its popularity. Imagine having unnecessary surgery just to get out of work.
One thing that I didn't see mentioned in this thread, and it is a long thread so I may have overlooked something, is that while surgery corrects the problem, returning to the activity that caused the problem often causes the problem to return. Certain people, and smokers are included in this group, tend to have higher incidences of CTS, and my guess is that returning to your job at the keyboard will eventually result in a recurrence of the disorder. Just something to consider and to ask the specialist about.
I'll second the advice about seeking a hand/wrist specialist.
I'm not a physician, but if you are not a candidate for surgery I don't know who is.
I am an orthopedic surgeon who does hand surgery.
Here is my advice in a nutshell.
It is highly likely that you have CTS.
Skip your primary care physician and go see an orthopedic hand surgeon. He or she can probably make the diagnosis without any nerve tests, but if there is any question, he can get an EMG.
Waiting may result in permanent numbness. Surgery is extremely safe and successful (except for endoscopic techniqes which have a slight chance of nerve injury).
The current "cutting edge" technology is a "mini open" procedure which combines the faster healing of endoscopic techniques with the safety of open procedures.
Once you have a persistant attack of CTS, surgery is often the best option. Other treatment modalities have much lower success rates and often do not provide permanent resolution. I am a 37 year old surgeon (and more importantly, woodworker), and I would not hesitate to have the procedure if I had CTS.
Go have your wrist fixed... you will be happy that you did.
MRY
Hepaticus,
As a surgeon, have you heard of Tennessee Orthopedic Alliance?
If so have you heard anythign good?
I've been give the option of going there, or to Vanderbilt hospital both in nashville.
My CT was severe, but went away completely, without surgery, when I gave up what was causing it. Rode motorcycles for 30 years and worked as a carpenter for 25. I was wearing 3 braces at work and all night long (2 wrist, 1 elbow) and couldn't sleep that well because of pain, numbness and tingling.
Gave up motorcycling and that helped, but not enough. Switched to non-manual work and within a few months was symptom free. Don't miss either at this point (ten years later) and can use tools couple of hours a day with no reoccurance.
Glad I made the changes, as more creative doors opened for me. Good luck to you and all.
Pedro
"My personal take on physical therapy is that it can be tough in the United States to find a physical therapist who is skilled enough and knowledgeable enough to diagnose and treat any possible contributory problems that may spring, for instance, from upper back problems or thoracic outlet syndrome. You have to find someone who does way more than the traditional ultrasound/exercise approach." Here, here!- Brogan
Carpal tunnel syndrome(CTS) is very common in the population and probably affects upward of 25% of people. It involves both hands 50% of the time. It is not a difficult diagnosis to make. Alot of people get relief with neutral position wrist splints worn at night. Sometimes the condition is self-limited and will resolve on its own. Other times some activity provokes the symptoms(electric hedge trimmers, power sanders, jack hammers, etc). If the symptoms do not remit with splinting after a few monthes then definitive diagnosis is needed and surgical evaluation. Untreated progressive CTS will cause atrophy of thumb muscles, in addition to numbness involving a portion of the hand. End stage CTS can take many years but left untreated the condition will result in disability. Usually a neurosurgeon or an orthopedist skilled in hand surgery can easy perform this procedure.
I gotta jump in . First , if you ask a bulldozer operator to move something,,,,, you can bet there will be a bulldozer involved somehow. Same thing with surgeons . CT symptoms can often be resolved by other means. but as with all medical diagnosis. the answer you get is going to depend on the type of specialist that you are talking to. People are often routed towards surgery without even looking at alternatives. Mid life cellists, guitar players etc, often come up with similar symptoms and a a massage technique (Trager) has evolved to help people non surgically. If you think of how you wound up with these symptoms, you will see a pattern of activity that added tension a little at a time without ever releasing. There are other massage techniques as well that can get the wrists opened up again and able to function . An inquiry to your local symphony may be able to hook you up with a local practicioner. I went through this and took 20 years off my wrists, and resolved the ganglions as well. I've seen surgery go both ways, ( check the "no guarantee" guarantee....) and though I know that surgery can be unavoidable, it should always be a LAST resort. Acupunture works for some people. cleaning up your diet, clean water, and massage works for lots of other people. It may seem that you cannot wait another minute, but results after first visit can be very encouraging.
Good Luck!
Tai
"Mid life cellists, guitar players etc, often come up with similar symptoms and a a massage technique (Trager) has evolved to help people non surgically. If you think of how you wound up with these symptoms, you will see a pattern of activity that added tension a little at a time without ever releasing."
This gave me a good chuckle. In my case I had to lookback 25 years to see the root cause of my CTS. I didn't spend enough time at a computer and as an engineer wasn't really doing the sorts of things that bring it on when I started having trouble. After surgery my surgeon said I had the fattest tendons he had ever seen. We sat around and examined my history to come up with the cause for a about 15 minutes. I used to play a lot of racquetball but he said that probably wasn't it. Then I remembered my "minor" in college was Foosball. I played 2-4 hours a day and competitively in Foosball beer-bar tournaments twice a week besides. This went on for about 5 years starting in '74. I thought I was only killing the slow brain cells at the back of the pack and improving the herd. So if any of you know what a butterfly or pull-shot on a Hollow-rod DeutschMaster feels like, you better watch out. Oh yeah I almost forgot the foosballer drink - tomatobeer. Haven't had one of those for a long time either.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
O.K. I just have to ask, you got me, what's in tomato beer? nothing personal but it sounds to me like you would need to kill off the fast moving brain cells before drinking that, sort of the opposite of the buffalo theory. by the way did you also drink alot of absinth.
Philip
Beer and tomato juice: a great combination, believe it or not. Mix the 'em about half and half and you've got a great drink. Go for V8...it has more vitamins!
First a warning - it sounds gross, but is actually pretty good and also highly recommended for hangovers. 1 part tomato juice and 1 part beer. Never drank absinth. What is it?John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
My favorite hangover remedy, back in my college and early working daze, was an incredibly spicy pepperoni pizza at the local Italian restaurant. Usually consumed at Friday lunch, since Thursdays were a big night-out tradition at UC Davis. Oooops, there I go, hijacking again. Sorry!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
If you do have the surgery and, God forbid, you are left with residual numbness/weakness...Its not the end of the world. About two years ago I was diagnosed with MS and I have persistent numbness and weakness in the extremities. At first, it was depressing but after a while you adjust the way that you do things. One of the biggest beneifits has been my new found love of hand tools such as planes, dovetail saws, scrapers etc. It may take me longer to complete a project but I think that there is more heart and soul in the piece when completed. In the interset of personal safety I've ditched most of my power tools...I hope Norm doesn't read this.
Bill
A few years back there was an article in Woodshop News about Carpel Tunnel Syn. The writer claimed CTS was a malady invented by OSHA and only a small percentage of people diagnosed with CTS really had it and mostly people were sore from repetitive movement such as typing. or assembly line work.
Anybody else remember this article besides me?
Gods Peace
les
>> CTS was a malady invented by OSHA ...
>> ... only a small percentage of people diagnosed with CTS really had it ...
These two statements can't both be true (although they could both be false). If CTS was invented by OSHA, nobody really has it. If anybody really has it, it wasn't invented by OSHA, or anybody else.
Uncle Dunc
Please don't assume I'm anti OSHA by my post, I thought the article was interesting and neither do I belive it to be totally true or untrue. Sometimes OSHA has been overzealous in their efforts to clean up the workplace but I wish they would have been around 50 years ago. My hearing would probably be a lot better than it is today should they have.
We go to our doctors when we hurt or something is wrong and if enough of us go with the same pain they are going to give it a name in this case Carpel Tunnel Syn. We humans, being the lot we are, wanting our moneysworth are not satisfied to go home without some treatment. Pills, injections, topical ointments, or SURGERY. I realized a long time ago I was going to have some pain in my life and as long as I could do what I wanted to do that day I would stay clear of my doctors office. I go for checkups and take a couple of pills a day and try to live a healthy lifestyle.
Life is not a journey to the grave with intentions of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--- Wow---What a Ride
Gods Peace
les
Absolute proof that you can't believe everything you read. What a buch of cr*p. I will agree that there have probably been a number of misdiagnoses over the years, partly because not everyone gets the nerve conduction tests that are the most definitive (my understanding, anyway) and also because too many doctors are ignorant about biomechanics and their real-world effects, and how to diagose and treat problems associated with bad biomechanics. But I can guarantee you that carpal tunnel is a very real "malady."forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hey Jamie
You are totally right don't believe everything you read, my question was did anybody remember reading the article. The article said a very small percentage of people diagnosed with CTS actually had CTS and OSHA had engineered CTS. This was in the article not my observations.
When we go to a doctor the first thing we are asked is what is wrong with you. So many times we have already diagnosed our ailment and we want the doctors confirmation. Some folks hear of another person symptoms and will convince themselves they have the same ailment. I have known several people who have told me they had CTS, whether they had been diagnosed or not I don't know but they were convinced they had it.
I liked the post about whacking your wrist with a Bible. I have never tried this but if I was in pain it would have to be a real small Bible (preferably NIV) for me to try it.
Gods Peace
les
"...and OSHA had engineered CTS." A statement like this was irresponsible on their part, and I hate to see it perpetuated.
Take care.
Jforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I see that there have been a lot of responses, and have not read them all. So, forgive me if I cover any ground that has already been discussed. I have suffered personally from this insidious problem for almost 5 years now, and have finally taken steps to fix it once and for all. My particular problem was brought to light after spending 6 weeks straight, sanding drywall by hand while working for a friend in a commercial setting. It was not the sole cause of the CTS, but exacerbated it to a point where it became a chronic ailment, needing immediate attention. Many things lead up to the problem in most people, so one needs to be vigilant before it becomes severe. I rode motorcycles since childhood, often in unbearably cold weather, and usually without gloves. The cold air on the hands, accompanied by the constant manipulation of the hand controls, worked their evil on my tendons. I have also worked with hand tools since I was young. On top of that, were many years of New Jersey cold water scuba diving, usually requiring staged decompression stops before surfacing. This added up to many hours in the water, at temperatures sometimes approaching 40 degrees F, with the occasional unnoticed microscopic nitrogen bubbles forming in and around the joints. The point is, that all of it was bad news for joints in general, particularly the wrists and hands. It starts innocently enough, as what one would call simple arthritic pain or numbness, and ends with unbearable pain during the night, and then around the clock. I was not smart enough to get it taken care of early, so the result may not be as good as it could have been. I can assure you that it is a very real condition. It can be helped before the surgical option, by taking 100mgs of vitamin B-6, twice a day, 800 mgs of vitamin E, and 400 mcgs of folic acid, each once a day. You can also wear a good quality wrist splint during sleep, to immobilize the wrist and prevent additional damage caused when the wrist is flexed downward. Unnecessary use of hand tools, particularly screwdrivers, should be avoided. Of course, this is unreasonable for those who have woodworking as a hobby, as almost everything you do involves the use of hand tools. Perhaps the most damaging movement for the condition, is long hours of moving and clicking a computer mouse. The final solution will most likely be surgery to release the tightened carpal ligament band that holds your wrist together for the most part, and encloses the median nerve too tightly during periods of internal swelling and inflammation. There are several approaches to the surgical procedure, and some are better than others. The endoscopic approach using a small incision, is a partially blind technique, and can result in nerve or blood vessel damage if not undertaken by a skilled hand surgeon. The most successful approach has been found to be what is known as an "open release". This involves more recovery time, but allows the surgeon to visualize the entire anatomy involved, cut through the carpal ligament accurately, and clean up any scar tissue as well, preventing the need for repeat of the surgery. Almost as important as the procedure itself, is the physical therapy postoperatively. You MUST begin exercising your hand and wrist according to the physician's instructions, after the initial period of required immobilization, they will remain weak permanently. Before you undergo the procedure, you must have nerve conduction studies to confirm that the problem is limited to the wrist, rather than in the elbow or the thoracic outlet under the armpit. I would suggest reading the book called "Light at the End of the Carpal Tunnel", by Dr. Scott Friedman. It will tell you all you need to know about the subject, and help with your medical decisions, which should not be made lightly. The procedure is almost always successful, but can have complications that leave your hand slightly weaker than before. However, if you ignore the condition, you will lose not only strength in the hand, but feeling, and the ability to wield your woodworking tools with any degree of precision. I wish that I had done it sooner, as my hand is often numb enough to push a needle through the pad of my middle finger without much pain. That note was not as much to suggest bravado or masochism on my part, as it was to encourage those with the problem to do something about it. Read as much as you can about the subject, find a good surgeon who does them routinely, and get it taken care of before it's too late. That's my advice to all, for what it might be worth. Good luck all.
Well, back from the doctor.
He refered me to a neurologist who specializes in carpel tunnel and is founder of the Tennessee Neurological something something...don't have the brochure, but it sounded impressive. He comes highly recommended and will be doing the EMG testing, etc before anything else. That's in 10 days, then i'm assuming another two weeks before we get results.
I'll keep you posted,
thanks everyone!
Mikkimel,
See if your GP can get you a good PM&R specialist. Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation are MD's who have been cross trained in neuro and ortho but do not cut. The are the undisputed experts in issues that involve musculoskeletal / nerves symptons.
If you change the color of your post to black and divide it into a half dozen paragraphs it would be readable. You may be making a lot of good valid points in you posting but I'm not going to go blind trying to read it.
John W.
Edited 3/10/2004 7:36 pm ET by JohnW
GOOD TIP JOHN.
THANKS FOR THE INPUT.
I'M SORRY.
I ONLY HAD 5 MINUTES TO WRITE IT.
ONE WRIST IS SPLINTED.
OTHER IS IN BANDAGES.
WAS TOO SORE TO RE-TYPE.
You don't have to retype the posting, just go to the edit function at the bottom of your original post and you can make the changes simply. You can highlight the entire text and then use the color and font funtions to change everything at once. If the color or font won't change the first time, just repeat the attempt, usually a second try always works.
I didn't mean to give you a hard time in my first posting, but I just couldn't read your post and I really wanted to.
John W.
Edited 3/11/2004 12:12 pm ET by JohnW
Friends,
Another condition is there that goes by the name 'trigger finger'. That is basically a tendonitis at the fingers and it relates to cramps in the hands, and pains in using them.
Speaking of motorcycles, the tedons at the fingers work like motorcycle cables in a sheath. When the sheaths are stressed, impacted, rubbed, or over used, the tendons rub inside and swell. The pain is felt at the base of the finger where in joins the hand palm.
A few years ago used a center-wheel mouse extenssively, as it seemed to be better than the earlier ones, which were causing wrist problems. However, the center wheel use caused the right-hand middle finger to stiffen.
So then moved to a pen-tablet (digital pad) which is much more ergonomic.
Have used computers extensively since the late 70's, before mouses and after mouses. Keyboards did lead to tendonitis, but mouses seem to be even less friendly for the wrists and fingers. The mouse ought to have been like a pen, but electronics were not as small when it was conceived.
There are lots of advise relating to hand and arm pains that have followed and some discovered. These are some verified here:
1. Keyboards about waist level close to body, avoid wrist or arm support.
2. Mouse slightly below elbow level, not too far from body, support most of arm, and avoid total support by wrist. Let mouse go from hand as much as possible, retreat hand to lap, ...
3. But digitizer pen perfered, at the equivalent best level for writting with a pencil or pen, and support for most of arm but not for elbow. Hand support is by little finger curled in and outside of palm (not wrist) just as in writting with a pencil. Let pen go from hand as much as possible. Retreat hand to lap or table, for support.
4. Wear tight fitting leather gloves as much as possible for some woodworking tasks such as tightening screwdrivers, holding electrical tools that vibrate, hand-plaining, hand sanding, scraper use, and moving boards (and driving motorcycles (use one also, with related problems). The leather gloves provide additional support for fingers acting as a stretcher sheath and in cold weather help keep hands warm. They also keep splinters away. They are also extra padding at the parts where the hand rubs and impacts the most during woodworking tasks. This is readily apparent by observing where and how the leather gloves wear: at the finger tips of the index and the thumb, and at the palm where the middle finger joins it, HOLES are the end-result!
5. Oriental (chinese iron-hand-balls for juggling them in the hand) and chi-kung and yoga excercises for hands, fingers, arms, and body. Diet, meditation, posture, breathing correctly, acupuncture, massage, ointments, oral anti-inflamatories, corisone injection at joint, temporary braces or supports during day and/or night, where and how one sleeps. All of those are factors to consider .
6. Air tools are better ergonomically than electric tools, and even than battery tools. Good air screwdrivers, for instance, have special clutches precisely designed to avoid wrist and finger injury due to repetitive use and impacts of torques applied. Use of traditional woodworking tools is benefitial since their use is more natural, whereas powered tools move and regulate us instead of us moving them and regulating their impacts. But hand tool abuse is also as bad.
Do check into 'trigger-finger' specially if fingers cramp on tools, if can't open jars with large lids, or are over-sensitive or have pain at thumb-at-the base where it meest the palm, and pain where the middle finger meets the palm, or any other finger(s), for that matter.
Well-beings to all.
I have had CTS for over one year. I would like to add in general that a change in my work station and input devices (I'm an architect) seemed to relieve any "new" damage, but I continued to experience GREAT pain in my wrist when I would suddenly strike any portion of my hand, like accidently striking it against a door frame. ( I cringed when I read about thumping it with a book. I would have passed out with such a treatment) Anyway, I have continued to experience pain and tenderness periodically (every month or so). I would combat this by wearing the wrist splints and reducing my work time as much as possible. After a year of this I had about resigned myself to surgery as a long term solution. However, I may have lucked up on something, perhaps too soon to tell, but here goes:
Three months ago I started lifting one dumbbell, 20 lbs. Not in a traditional manner, I just hold it straight down at my side with my knuckles pointing away from my body. I then curl it from the elbow up to my shoulder, keeping my knuckles still out, not rotating my wrist. I did this just to build up my arm muscles, not for any reason related to CTS. When I could 10 reps, I switched the dumbbell to the other hand. When I can do 20 reps in each arm, I have switched to a 5 lbs. heavier dumbbell. I have now worked my way up to a 40lb. dumbbell.
I have noticed that although after a hard day of using my hands, all that occurs is a faint pain in my inner wrist. After three months of being 95% pain free from CTS, either I just happened to need about a year to get over the pain, or this intensive weight lifting (in this particular motion as well) may have helped me. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but whatever the reason I've very grateful for the relief. If this continues I will have to think that this weight lifting had some positive effect.
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