Anyone Used Rikon 10″ Jointer/Planer?
Hi All,
I’m still searching for a jointer for my shop, and I came across some information about a jointer/planer combination machine made by Rikon Tools. I’m curious about it because the machine has 10″ jointing capabilities. Its planer capacity is only 10″ as well, less than my 13″ DeWalt model. But it only costs about $600, which is less than other 6″ or even 8″ jointers I’ve seen. At that price, if it was good quality, it would be worth it just to have a 10″ jointer!
I have seen Rikon tools at woodworking shows, and they seem to be well-made products. At first glance, they appear to be Grizzly clones, but I don’t know. Does anyone else have experience with Rikon tools?
Here’s Rikon’s Web page with the jointer/planer machine:
http://www.rikontools.com/pjcombo.htm
Here’s a tool seller offering the Rikon jointer/planer:
http://www.right-tool.com/rikrp10plan.html
Edited 3/24/2005 10:15 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Replies
The bed looks pretty short. How long is it? Have you tried the jig in Fine Woodworking magazine? I made one for 13 in wide oak. And it worked well for the occasional wide board.
Dave
Matthew, I spoke to a Rikon tech guy a couple of weeks ago and this unit is not on the street yet. About 4 more weeks and they should be out; he also said that the Woodcraft stores would probably get the first units. It's a 'copy' of the European Elektra Bekkum.
POLARSEA1,
I wrote to Rikon Tools yesterday morning, but haven't heard back from them yet. After doing some Web research, it appears that many woodworkers think this unit is a reincarnation of the Inca jointer/planer that went off the market a cople of years ago.It would be great to have a 10" jointer, and the idea of a quality jointer/planer combination machine appeals to me.The machine has aluminum tables, instead of cast iron. I can't decide whether this is an absolute negative or not. It also has a short bed, only 39 1/4" long. But I think that would be fine for someone like me.I still have a couple of key questions:
- What type of knife system does this use?
- How are the infeed/outfeed tables adjusted (in Rikon's Web photos, all you see is the backside of the unit)?I'll be very curious to see this thing in person.
Edited 3/25/2005 9:19 am ET by Matthew Schenker
The rep specifically mentioned the Elektra unit, but they're all pretty close. It does look like the Inca.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=19600&recno=4&cid=FYU44EIZMLSAT9M7S3TA7LTIKYY1YPP2
Don't know the answer to your other questions other than to say the Inca unit never had anything but aluminum tables and everyone slobbers over that tool. BTW there was an Elektra presence in the US ~20 years ago.
POLARSEA1,
I just received an e-mail from Rikon today. The person who wrote to me is Andrea Tassi. Here's what she said:"these will be available in approximately 6 weeks. For additional product and pricing information please visit our online distributor at http://www.toolcenter.com (Cyber Woodworking 888-778-9663)."Maybe they released some demo machines to certain stores?I'm really interested in seeing one of these. The aluminum tables don't bother me really. I have used bench-top tables saws and planers with aluminum tables. Matthew
I keep hearing that this will not be on the street for a couple of weeks. Must have been a mirage I keep seeing at my Woodcraft store in Canton, MI.
I looked it over and the idea seems pretty good. I don't think the aluminum is a problem for rigidity. I think the bracing is pretty good. Aluminum parts have a tendancy to "stick-slip" because it is not as hard as cast iron. That is the only problem I have detected in looking it over so far. The "ways" are not especially substantial. I don't know if that is going to be a problem or not. So far the unit is just sitting on the floor and no one has demo'd it yet. It has just enough differences that it will take some time to warm up to it. The concept of having something wider than 6 inches is VERY attractive. I don't know if the short bed is going to be all that much of a problem for most home woodworkers. I have felt that it makes all the sense in the world to have a width greater than the normal 6 inches and that is why I am considering being a distributor of a high quality chinese 8 inch jointer. I am testing the waters now on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42360&item=4366927034&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
I saw one at my local Woodcraft in Clearwater, FL. They had theirs on sale for $500, but this was about a month ago. Looked like a nice piece of equipment. I saw it about a week after I bought DW735 and Rigid Jointer.
Matthew,
My %.02:
I think jointer/planers are a very good idea for a small shop.
I wouldn't be bothered to much by the bed length. I think extra bed length is more of a luxury than a necessity as it provides more support for long or heavy boards. I have commonly heard that you should be able to reliably hand plane a straight edge on a board that is 3 times the length of your plane (usually a #7 or #8 jointer plane). It would seem to me that this would also be just a valid for a machine jointer, so do the math and decide if that's adequate for your work.
You get what you pay for, and I would not expect to get an Inca for $600. It may look the same, but I doubt it is equivalent.
If you could find the European equivalent to this web site, I would think you could get a lot of opinions about this kind of machine. I have seen at least a half dozen manufacturers of these machines in European magazines.
Todd
What you are seeing in the European magazines is basically the same Chinese made machine with some details changed to comply with safety requirements. The machines are supposedly designed by Elektra Bekum.
John W.
FANCYCLANCY,
I agree with you, and since I never joint boards longer than maybe 6', I think this size would be feasible.Of course, I did not expect that this was really an Inca! I have seen advertisements in European magazines for this kind of machine, but I never really thought about getting one, since they were not for sale here, as far as I knew.At this stage, I am still looking for a jointer in my shop. Before I buy one, I think I will at least try to learn more about this unit. Having 10" jointing capabilities would be interesting. But if the machine has other limitations I don't like, I would not get it just because it offers 10" jointing.I guess we'll have to stay posted on when this machine is actually available in stores.
Local Woodcraft has one. It appears to have a two knife cutterhead rather than a three. I haven't seen the specs on how many cuts per min it makes. I'd want to see the surface quality it leaves on the wood.
Sonrise
Right-Tool is offering it for-sale, and has some specs for the machine (see below) that even the Rikon site does not have. See http://www.right-tool.com/rikrp10plan.html
It also has a picture ... features listed are:
Features:
Specifications:
I've had an Inca jointer/planer since forever, but since it will probably be impossible to get blades/parts in the next few years, I have been looking around for a replacement. I looked at the Rikon link, and the configuration and footprint seems very similar to the Inca. The fact the bed is cast aluminum should not be problem (that's what Inca uses), and the shortness of the bed is more an inconvenience than a major flaw for most cabinet work. However, I share your passion for quality tools, and the $600 price puts me off. Rikon is a new brand in the wwing marketplace, and I suppose it is is possible they are lowballing on price to establish a foothold. But I am still skeptical.Have you done any looking among other manufacturers for combo machines? I really don't have the space for separate machines, without rearranging my whole shop. So what I want is a combo that is about the same size as the Inca -- which the Rikon appears to be. As an act of community service, why don't you buy one, and then let us know if you like it <G>?
nikkiwood,
Actually, I think I will get one of these when they are available at my local Woodcraft. I personally will avoid getting this item through mail-order. I could give it a workout and see how it performs. Woodcraft has a good return policy, enough time to test out all operations and blade changes. If the Rikon works out, it would be great to know that I have a joiner/planer in one unit.Now I just need to know when I can get my hands on one.The only other small-scale combination machine I have ever seen is the Hitachi P12RA, which is a 13" planer and a 6" jointer. The Rikon is a 10" jointer and planer. The Hitachi costs $1,200, but gets mixed reviews: people seem to like the planer but have problems with the jointer.
Edited 4/2/2005 12:52 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
Did you find out what kind of blades the Rikon uses. The Inca uses what they call "Tersa" blades -- 3 blades, two sided, disposables, which slide in from the end and are held in place by a wedge shaped gib. Easy to move one blade (for a nick), slide them out for replacement, slide the new one in and turn on the machine. No adjustments. It is the slickest system I have ever seen, and I could never figure out why no one else copied it.
nikkiwood,
I have heard all about the Inca Tersa cutterhead, and I hope that the Rikon uses the same system.I'm going to be in Woodcraft early in the week (what else is new) and I'll ask them about it.Stay tuned!
At that price, my guess is they use fixed blades that can be resharpened. But I'll be interested in what you find out. As far as other combo machines are concerned, I seem to recall hearing that Laguna is now marketing something -- maybe Knapp or Rojek?
i believe the tersa system itself (cutterhead) costs as much or more than this entire machine!
Good to see we are getting some of the lower end euro stuff over here. It may sound odd.. but if this j/p was available here a few years back i would have tried it instead of the felder i ended up with.
MiniMax also offers a Tersa cutter head. I've just taken delivery of a 300mm Minimax under and over (same form factor as the machine being discussed here, but heaps of cast iron and really long tables) with a conventional 3-knife block. The pros say you're much better off with conventional knives and a good jig for setting them up. I think I agree.
Malcolm
New Zealand | New Thinking
Does theMiniMax combo have the same style Tersa knives as the Inca? --- 2 sided, disposable, that slip into a slot on one end of the cutter block, without any adjustment necessary?The Inca blades are really terrific -- glass smooth surfaces, with virtually no discernible snipe. It is hard for me to imagine that more conventional blades could produce a better cut.
> Does theMiniMax combo have the same style Tersa knives as the Inca? --- 2 sided, disposable, that slip into a slot on one end of the cutter block, without any adjustment necessary? The Inca blades are really terrific -- glass smooth surfaces, with virtually no discernible snipe. It is hard for me to imagine that more conventional blades could produce a better cut <
I think the answer is yes, but I've not seen a Tersa block, so can't be sure!
As I recall the expert advice, the main benefits of the Tersa system are speed to change and convenience. Don't know how costs compare. I guess I'm accustomed to conventional knives, and I like a 3-knife setup. Snipe is a factor of infeed and outfeed rollers and roller pressure (and effective jointing before thicknessing). A well set-up conventional cutter block should produce results as good as any other.
Cheers
MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking
The Tersa set up on the Inca uses 3 blades, and you're right about the easy set up. There's a wedge shaped strip that holds each blade in place; tap it free, and the blade slides right out. Slide the new blade in the slot, turn the machine on, and the wedge strip automatically tightens against the blade.It is aa simple, brilliant system. And as I said earlier, I cannot understand why other manufacturers have not picked up on the concept, particularly since Inca is no longer available in the US.
"Does theMiniMax combo have the same style Tersa knives as the Inca? --- 2 sided, disposable, that slip into a slot on one end of the cutter block, without any adjustment necessary?"
Yes, and it is very sweet. I have the MiniMax FS30 J/P. A Tersa head adds about $800 to $1000 to the cost of the machine. I think you can get one with the Rojek, but not the Robland (last I checked).Todd
A $1000 --- holy smokes!!!!!Is the Minimax and "over/under'"style -- like the Inca? Mind if I ask where you bought it and how much you paid?How do you like it?EDIT: I just googled "MiniMax FS30" -- and the specs indicate it is a 3 phase machine. Is that what you have?
Edited 4/5/2005 1:10 am ET by nikkiwood
I've got an FS30 Smart, this one made in Italia and single phase. New. Love it. Once long ago I had a 'big iron' under and over, in the UK, and have wanted another ever since I sold it, years ago. My big iron Wadkin was literally under and over - no adjustment needed to move from surfacing/jointing to thicknessing. The Minimax is different, but ok. It's a lovely piece of machinery - solid, heavy, quiet, sure, accurate, everywhere adjustable. But pricy!
MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking
Nikki,You can see the specs here:http://www.minimax-usa.com/jointer-planer/fs30.htmlIt is single phase. I paid about $3,400, and picked it up at the wood show in Sacremento last year. I saved 10% plus shipping. The cost has gone up since then (steel prices and the American dollar).Todd
Todd,That's a nice machine -- but a crappy website. On the top pic, I assume that is the horizontal mortiser that is attached to the front of the machine (although they don't so indicate).Did you get the mobile base for your machine? If so, would you do me a huge favor?What are the dimensions .........1) top of the jointer bed to the floor.2) Length of jointer bed,3) Front-to-back depth (without the mortiser).If you willing, you need not be real precise. Just get me in the ballpark. Thanks mucho.
http://www.minimax-usa.com/manuals/FS%2030%20Smart%20Inst.%20Manual.pdfCan you read pdfs? The manual basically sucks, but you can read the dimensions on pg 18. I do not use a mobile base. The floor of my shop is slick enough that I have no trouble pushing it around a little if I have to.You are right about the pic. The mortiser is an add on.Todd
Edited 4/5/2005 6:40 pm ET by FANCYCLANCY
It looks like this machine is now available for purchase. I have found at least one dealer who has it available for $595.It still looks interesting to me. And I have heard some very positive things about Rikon.Does anyone have more information about this planer/jointer combination machine?
Rikon 10 inch jointer/planer
I know this is an old post, but just in case someone runs across it, I have owned this machine for 8 years. The fence is impossible to adjust to 90 degrees. Other than that, it was a steal:-) the motor is strong enough and it can make a flat surface. It just can't joint.
There is a newer model out but if they use the same mechanism for adjusting the fence angle, run don't walk away. Their service is really great if the product is usable. When the first fence was out of flat they sent me a new one. But alas, there is not much they can do about the design. I need to just buckle down and make it a wooden right angle fence. As it is now, I use it to flatten a side and then use a hand plane to joint the edge.
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