Replies

1. 
   Kevin | Sep 13, 2003 01:12am | #1

   What should I do to correct this "sagging" on the drawer front? Can I just sand it lightly with 220 grit paper and apply a 3rd coat.

   Yes, that would be the fastest way to fix the sag.

   I'm afraid I'm going to wear through the 2 coats of clear poly trying to sand smooth the "ridges".

   That's certainly a legit concern. The best way to avoid burning thru would be to first scrap off as much of the sag as you can using a scraper of some sort... a razorblade works well. A veneer scraper or equivilent works best, though. You don't want to cut the sag! You want to scrap it. Then wetsand the sag. I would use Mineral Spirits. The MS will act as a lubricant so that when you are wet sanding, only the high points (i.e., the sag itself) will have maximum contact with the sandpaper and thus will be sanded away faster. I use this same wetsanding with MS on all clears, even automotive, in that same type of situation. Wetsanding using a sanding block would be ideal on a flat surface. But, doing it by hand works too. You just have to be more watchful doing it by hand if you weren't able to scrap off most of the sag.

   Personally, I would wet sand with 320 because it's less aggresive and will leave a smaller scratch pattern that another coat of poly should cover very easily.

   Regards,

   Kevin

   
   

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   Edited 9/12/2003 6:14:54 PM ET by Kevin

1. 
   wendy | Sep 13, 2003 01:42am | #2

   Hi,

   Thanks  so much for the tips Kevin. You're a life saver! I don't have a scaper but I do have a chisel. I'll make sure I'm extra careful. I have some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and MS  so I'll go ahead and do what you suggested.

   I'm trying to get this nightstand finished before my sister's birthday on Sunday.

   Wanda

1. 
   Kevin | Sep 13, 2003 02:58am | #3

   Well... it may be too late given your short timeline. You're probably working on it right now... But, what I meant by scrapping rather than cutting the sag was... Hmmm.... not sure how to describe this. An excellent emergency scrapper is a single-edged razor blade. Straight up would be at a 90 degree angle to the wood. What I like to do is to place the blade at about a 75-80 degree angle and pull it towards me. If the angle is right you should see the business end of the blade producing little curls of poly as it scrapes across the surface of the sag.

   It's not that one can't cut a sag, as opposed to scrapping it off. But, I've had bad luck trying it that way. In any case, I hope the chisel works for you. I've never tried it with a chisel. If it works well for you, I hope you'll post your experience here for our gratification and education. A new trick for the ol' goody bag is always a good thing. <G>

   Regards,

   Kevin

1. 
   wendy | Sep 13, 2003 05:50pm | #4

   Hi Kevin,

   I didn't have to use the chisel to get rid of the sags. They weren't that thick so I just went over the high points using the wet sanding technique you described. It worked like a charm.

   My only problem now is DUST!  If I go over the surface with my hand the surface is not completely smooth to the touch. I made sure I went over the entire surface of the nightstand with a lint free cloth before applying the poly. How do I achieve a smooth surface? Is there anyway to prevent bits of dust from settling on the surface?

   After applying the final coat of  (I applied 3 coats)  polyurethane.... Could you soak a cloth in MS rub it over the table top and rub very very gently using  400 grit wet/dry sandpaper to smooth the surface? 

   Wanda

1. 
   Kevin | Sep 13, 2003 07:55pm | #5

   One finisher's trick for dealing with nibs like that is to take a 1/4 piece of sheet sandpaper and flip it over, then rub the paper backside over the areas that you can feel the nibs. If the nibs are really minor, this will often work like a charm. It also works very well on minor overspray. Harder finishes like poly or conversion varnish don't respond to this treatment as well as the softer finishes like lacquer or shellac. But, it's the best quick fix that doesn't involve altering the sheen. Wetsanding even lightly is gonna alter the sheen and then that would need to be dealt with. The paper is itself slightly abrasive, which is why this trick works. But, it's not so abrasive as to leave a scratch pattern. So, done right it doesn't alter the sheen at all.

   Regards,

   Kevin

2. 
   EdHarrow | Sep 14, 2003 02:40am | #6

   Wanda, I'm not certain I understand your question about dust.  I think you mean the general dust that settles anywhere and everywhere, but is especially drawn to just varnished surfaces, LOL.

   You mentioned that you used a clean, lint-free cloth.  Did you use a tack rag?  That is the traditional method used to pick up little bits of stuff BEFORE applying the finish.  Typically I brush/vacuum the worst off, then tack it outside and blow the surface with compressed air, followed by a wipe with a cloth dampened in mineral spirits.  When the surface dries I tack the whole surface, then varnish a section, tack the next, etc, etc.  For stuff that drops on the surface afterwards...

   Maybe an air filter would helpWatch your brush, they can be a source of bits.  Use a brush (a GOOD brush) dedicated for nothing but application of varnish/poly.Bugs - leave em be, sand their little broken bodies away when the finsh is hard and, maybe, no body will ever notice.  If a big bug, well you'll have to punt on that one.A very fine wet sanding over the surface will tend to cover up small bits of stuff in the surface, and improve the sheen.

   Runs- I've not tried this, but I have heard of people using a chisel to slice of the run.  I like Kevin's techniques.

3. 
   wendy | Sep 14, 2003 04:00am | #7

   HI Guys,

   I have to confess I skimped a little...... I did not use a tack cloth.......big mistake hey? I should know better. And you're right perhaps I should use a good quality natural bristle brush. The sponge brush is ok but a brush might do a better job. Have you ever used a sponge to apply polyurethane? and if so how did you find it. How does it compare to using a natural bristle brush?

   Just one last question. It's ok to use a cloth dampened in MS over the vacuumed parts to get rid of those "nibs"... tiny dust specks between applications of polyurehtane But  is it ok to wipe down the surface of newly stained wood .... wood that doens't have any poly applied to it) with a cloth dampened with MS? Won't effect the stain will it? ( the MS won't alter the colour of the stain?) I know it's ok between coats of poly.  Hope you don't have a problem deciphering what I'm trying to ask.  LOL

   Wanda

   I'll have to post a picture of the finished nightstand in the gallery when I get my roll of film developed

4. 
   EdHarrow | Sep 14, 2003 04:22am | #8

   I can't tell you enough how much I HATE foamie brushes....  I especially don't like the way they feel in my hand, the skinny little bit of a handle.  UGHHH. 

   I'm especially fortunate in that I have my Great Uncle Dick's varnish brushes.  Yup, not kidding, I'm the third generation to use them.  I'm serious now (and that's not often, LOL).  The best part is that they are so experienced all I have to do is whisper the magic incantation and they get right to work.  I jst sit back, watch, and suck down a beer.  ;-)

5. 
   wendy | Sep 14, 2003 05:00am | #9

   Hi,

   Looks like I've got some hunting around to do Next time I'm at Kent Building supplies or Home Hardware.I will have to  see what brand names they offer.  What price range should I be looking at? and what brand name would you recommend? What distinguishes a good quality varnish brush from a poor quality one?

   WOW!  You're using brushes that have been around for that long..... impressive.

   Wanda

6. 
   Kevin | Sep 14, 2003 08:16am | #11

   Just one last question. It's ok to use a cloth dampened in MS over the vacuumed parts to get rid of those "nibs"... tiny dust specks between applications of polyurehtane But  is it ok to wipe down the surface of newly stained wood .... wood that doens't have any poly applied to it) with a cloth dampened with MS? Won't effect the stain will it? ( the MS won't alter the colour of the stain?) 

   Looks like Ed missed this one. The answer to your question would depend on the type of stain. With a water-based dye stain the MS won't hurt it. But, with just about anything else I would expect wiping the dried stain with MS to remove some of the stain. I definitely would not wipe any stain with anything wet, just on principle. Even wiping dried stain with more of the same stain can sometimes cause problems because the solvent in the stain will redissolve the dried stain without necessarily leaving just as much stain pigment behind. This is particularly true with darker stains. Solvent based stains are the worst for this, in my experience.

   BTW, while I rarily go thru the whole procedure... I'd strongly ditto Ed's tacking regime as the best way to ensure that your wood surface is completely prepared for the finish application.

   Oh... and, like Ed, I HATE foam brushes too. <G>

   Regards,

   Kevin

2. 
   Telemike | Sep 14, 2003 05:44am | #10

   I can't help you much with this piece, but I would put in a voice against brushed poly.  Unless you're a world-class brusher, you'll get occasional drips and runs and sags.  They NEVER dry well enough to just sand off dry.  Wet sanding will sometimes get them flat, but I've always had to scrape and sand cutting through some of the finish.  (Does anyone have any tricks like heat guns or magic chemicals to get the runs to harden?)

   I use wipe-on finishes relatively exclusively.  I really like danish oils and wipe-on polys for thin drip free layers.  Someday, I'll make something that demands padded shellac.  The cost of wipe on finishes is measured in effort - lots of coats with 220 then 320 sanding in between. 

   I will also sometimes spray things.  Spray also eliminates lot's of issues, but while I'm an OK sprayer, I'm not a master of the art and there are moguls on this slope also!

   Also, I rarely consider a that finish is done when the application is over.  I almost always rub out with 400/600 paper and 0000 steel wool, then buff for a sheen.  My as-applied finishes in my small shop will never be good enough to reflect what I think furniture should look like, except for outdoor carpentry and other "rough use" stuff.

1. 
   Kevin | Sep 14, 2003 08:27am | #12

   Also, I rarely consider a that finish is done when the application is over.  I almost always rub out with 400/600 paper and 0000 steel wool, then buff for a sheen.  My as-applied finishes in my small shop will never be good enough to reflect what I think furniture should look like, except for outdoor carpentry and other "rough use" stuff.

   Spraying gets easier the more you do it. I've never done a rubbed out finish yet, and I've been at this for a little over 20 years. Not braggin' here... it's just that I never was in a situation that required me to learn how to do it. I first broke into finishing working in a furniture factory that mass produced mid-scale bedroom, living room and dining room furniture. Everything was as-applied except for the wiping stain. So, one had to learn quickly or get moved to another dept. From there I always looked for jobs that required as-applied finishing skills and just never had the opportunity to do a hand-rubbed finish, unless wiping off furniture wax counts. <G>

   One of these days I intend to hand-rub a finish on something. When I do, you can count on me being no more self-assured about the quality of it than you are about the quality of your as-applied spray jobs. I know just enough about hand-rubbed finishes to know that it is a definite skill and that there's a learning curve involved in acquiring that skill. C'est la vie.

   Regards,

   Kevin

1. 
   EdHarrow | Sep 15, 2003 05:27am | #13

   LOL, I get into enough trouble when I answer questions in an area where I have some knowledge.  When it comes to stains people have written books about what I don't know.

   Now, as for brushes:  (and understanding that I've never bought varnish brush :-D ) at the top of the heap are those by Epifanes.  Lee Valley looks to have a very good selection, and at reasonable prices too.

   If you like to read, and view fabulous photos, you might get yourself a copy of "Brightwork" by Rebecca somebody who's last name escapes me.  Other than that she is a big fan of foamie brushes (and rollers, too!!!), the book is a real resource of varnishing tidbits and lore.

   Wait till you do a finish where you start off by "oil sanding" the surface.  Linseed oil and W/D sandpaper.  Yumm is the only word to describe the results.