Replies

1. 
   Lightman | Feb 25, 2005 10:48am | #1

   Hey Steve,

   "about "aromatic cedar" aka western red cedar aka other names."

   I'm not sure about cedar vs junipers. I can tell you that "aromatic" cedar and western red cedar are not the same wood.  Western red cedar can be purchased at the big boxes and just about any building supply. It is very popular for fence, outdoor furniture etc. Whereas aromatic cedar, also known as eastern red cedar, is what is used to line closets, build blanket/hope chests, make clothes hangers, etc.

    I use the ERC quite a bit. I have build some outdoor stuff with it, but you have to use full 4/4 or 5/4 to get the strength. It is very brittle and not as strong laterally as the WRC. 

   ERC grows here in MS all over the place, I have two small logs right now waiting to go to the mill.

   Though I lived out west and in the mid west I not sure I ever saw a WRC growing. So not sure if they are similar or not. Well there's my .02. Good luck

   Jimmy

   as always I wish you enough. 

2. 
   stancalow | Feb 26, 2005 03:51am | #2

   Steve

   Eastern Red Cedar aka aromatic red cedar, is juniperius virginianus, or something like that so yes, it is a juniper.   For some strange reason, I remember this from 5th grade shop class.  It is not the same as western cedar, which is the kind that fences and roof shingles are made of.  The eastern version is definitely not wood that you can use outside.  In fact it is a PITA to work with, even if it is pretty.  It's considered an invasive species around here, and grows like a weed. 

1. 
   KeithNewton | Feb 26, 2005 06:46pm | #9

   Stan, I don't know how you can make the statement "The eastern version is definitely not wood that you can use outside.  In fact it is a PITA to work with, even if it is pretty."
   I have some wood that I found that has about 500 annual rings. It had been dead since 1945, and I found it in 1990, and there is no rot present in it.
   How good does it need to be to meet your approval, and what makes a soft even texture wood a PITA to work?

1. 
   stancalow | Feb 27, 2005 07:29am | #10

   rootburl

   sorry, I didn't mean to insult it.  I like the way it looks and smells.  Heck, I still have the cedar pen & pencil holder I made in that shop class.  But every time I've used it for a project, I've had problems with splitting, tearout, splintering, etc.  I just gave up on a hope chest project after having two glued-up cedar panels break in normal handling.  I think the general absence of cedar being used in fine furniture speaks for itself. 

   Just my experience, and I have no doubt that in the hands of a more skilled and experienced wworker, it can be worked effectively. 

   I was speaking of eastern red cedar only, BTW. 

   Edited 2/27/2005 9:59 am ET by stantheman

3. 
   Dale | Feb 26, 2005 05:17am | #3

   Correct both species are not true cedars.  Western Red Cedar,Thuja plicata and as posted above Eastern Red Cedar is Juniperius virginian (sp).. Most ERC is used for corner fence post around here.  Working ERC is easy and sweet but it does tear out badly and crack alot across the knots and as previously noted it is very brittle. 

   Invasive species is the new word for ERC.  I refer to that statement as poor pasture managment and also to good fire control.  The results: ERC out the wal-zoo....Another thing Uncle Sam will throw money at due to the 'squeaking wheel gets the grease' effect.  

   I think(??) true cedars are Cedus genius... Without looking that up I would not stand by that hunch....Dale

1. 
   tms | Feb 26, 2005 08:16am | #4

   <<I think(??) true cedars are Cedus genius... >>Close, I think what your trying for is "Cedrus". Alaska Yellow Cedar, White Cedar and the famous Port Orford Cedar (yellow cedar) are examples.Ironically, they are all quite aromatic, but are not THE aromatic cedar of blanket chest fame, that's ERC, the juniper.Tom

1. 
   Dale | Feb 26, 2005 08:27am | #5

   Ya, ya, that's what I meant, my spelling got in the way, : ' ) ....Thanks for the correction.......Dale

1. 
   Ribeye | Feb 26, 2005 10:31am | #6

   Thanks to each of you!

   Collectively, that's been a *great* help in unwarping my feeble memory :-)

   As I was typing out my original plea for help, the only image I had in my mind's eye were the "infamous" Cedars of Lebanon -- and I *knew* those weren't the "critters" the others were refering to.

   THANKS(!) To Each of you!!! I truely appreciate your help :-)

    -- Steve

   Enjoy life & do well by it;

   it might well be the only chance you get.

   http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/

4. 
   forestgirl | Feb 26, 2005 11:02am | #7

   Some info on aromatic cedar came up in a thread I started, asking about juniper.  Here's one quote:

   Juniper == common name for a genus of plants, comprising about 50 species of evergreen shrubs and trees native to the northern hemisphere. Junipers, which are conifers in the cypress family, produce their seeds in red or purple berrylike fruits. These are actually cones, similar in structure to pine cones. The leaves are usually needlelike on young plants and scalelike on older plants. About 15 species occur in North America. Eastern red cedar, actually a juniper, is the most widely distributed conifer in the eastern United States. Its wood contains an oil that deters moths and is often used to line chests. The wood has also been used for making wooden pencils. Rocky mountain juniper is a closely related western species, although its multibranched stems make its wood less valuable. The common juniper is the only species that occurs in both North America and Eurasia. Unlike most junipers, it produces only needlelike leaves. This usually bushy species grows on poor soils and is of little economic importance. Many junipers— both North American and Asian species— are grown  (fredsmart, 8349.6)

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   forestgirl | Feb 26, 2005 11:04am | #8

   Then, just to make things interesting, there's the confusion between cypress and cedar.  Here's a quote from our very own Jon Arno:

   Forestgirl, chances are the species you'll bump into at the local lumberyard will be baldcypress; Taxodium distichum...but that isn't as sure a bet as it used to be. In recent years yellow-cedar (AKA; Alaska-cedar) has been getting marketed as Alaska-cypress (mostly as a decking), and this "cypress" reference is actually more botanically correct than its other common names...And certainly more correct than our misuse of the term "cypress" as the common name for baldcypress.

   Both of these "cypress" woods have very good decay resistance...So, functionally, either of them would perform well in an exterior application. Botanically, though, they stem from very different origins. The true cypress family (Cupressaceae) contains several North American genera that are important lumber sources, although we usually refer to these woods as "cedars"...probably as a legacy of their similar scents. These include the junipers (mostly Juniperus virginiana; aromatic cedar, AKA: eastern redcedar), both western red and eastern white cedars which are in the genus Thuja...two western species; Port-Orford and Alaska-yellow, and one eastern species (Atlantic white-cedar) from the genus Chamaecyparis...and also incense cedar, in the genus Calocedrus. There are also several species of true cypresses native to western North America, but they aren't major commercial timbers...when they do show up, though, they are usually correctly referred to as cypresses.

   As for baldcypress, it really isn't a cypress at all. It belongs to the more ancient family; Taxodiaceae, and is actually more closely related to redwood and sequoia.

    

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)