I read this article this morning in the Cincinnati Enquier and thought I would share with Knots. Hopefully Ash doesn’t become the next American Chestnut.
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070524/NEWS01/705240391
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They have been dropping around Eastern Massachusetts for several years. I went to our local saw mill figuring to get some clear ash as a consequence of all the dead multi-foot dia ash trees. "Nope, sorry, the only ash we've got is firewood." :( :(
That pretty little green beetle(emerald ash borer) is reeking havoc in NE Ohio. The Ash go very quickly once infested. And my elms arn't fairing much better. Anybody know if there is a systemic treatment for the trees??
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 5/24/2007 5:38 pm ET by BruceS
Friends tell me that the city of Cleveland is cutting down all their white ash trees. They see no hope that any would survive.
I haven't seen any blight here in western New York State, yet. But I've heard for 10 years that it's on its way. I don't doubt it.
In the past decade I've seen great stands of Beech trees succumb to the blight that's attacking that species. Sad.
Since 1996 I've planted 18 American Elm trees ... most are the so-called "Liberty Elm," which are actually clones from 6 individual trees that were deemed naturally resistant to Dutch Elm Disease.
Another one of my trees is the "Princeton Elm," a clone of a very fine reisistant individual tree in New Jersey.
All were growing very well ... planted as seedlings and over 20 feet tall, but an early October snowstorm decimated them. They were still fully leafed out, and the heavy snow ripped off as much as 90 percent of the canopy. The remaining branches have leafed this spring, but I don't have much hope for long-term survival.
Allen
Edited 5/24/2007 11:28 am ET by WNYguy
I had to run out
We're also losing rhododendrons and at least one type of azalea (a cross with a rhodie) a great rate to some kind of borer. On top of that there is a moth called 'winter moth' that has basically taken out a great old suger maple at Mum's. Unlike the gypsy moth, which at least gives the tree a chance to leaf out, the winter moth actually (as I understand it) bores into the bud. I was just talking to a tree guy the other day; he noted that there was systemic treatments available for some of these pests. That and I've not even touched upon ponds and lakes and a multitude of invasive species.
Plant or animal, it matters not, we're on our way to the lowest common denominator. (I'm not really a pessimist, I just sound that way.) We went to NZ this past winter (lovely place, I recommend it) - hiking boots are inspected for biological bits in an attempt to keep stuff out. In many ways, of course, it is already too late, and I can't believe inspecting the soles of hiking boots is sufficient to save what's left.
Edited 5/24/2007 11:48 am ET by EdHarrow
"I can't believe inspecting the soles of hiking boots is sufficient to save what's left." Probably not, but it protects that area for awhile longer. More than anything, though, it should raise the consciousness of the people being inspected such that when they go to other areas, they go with clean boots. Ya gotta do what you can, I guess.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
We were there in February. When going from Christchurch to Melbourne, the inspectors in Melbourne did not think my hiking boots were clean enough. They took them and scrubbed them themselves. They were very pleasant about it but were firm. I agree that it shows a concern that probably applies to all parts of the society. It struck us all immediately as to how clean the NZers keep the cities. Even under the piers at the waterfronts, there was not the trash collected that we see in the US. THAT is what I call a civilized country.
Hi Ed,
I'm a fellow Hopkintonian (we met a long time ago at Paul & Claire's, back in the days when you used to go to the dairy out in Medway...).We lost a huge and beautiful maple last year to something or other. It graced our back yard for more than a hundred years I'd guess and one year it just up and died. Broke my heart and left my back yard bereft. How did you know that winter moth killed your tree? What are the indications? I've seen the moths around but did not notice any larval infestation on or around my tree. When the tree was cut up I did see some large borers emerge from holes deep in the sapwood. At the time I tentatively identified them (thank you, Google) but I've forgotten the name. The web sources I found didn't indicate that they were known for killing trees so I wasn't sure that was the cause. The adults were not beetles but a large wasp-like insect. I wondered if they were there to feed on some much smaller parasite that was the real criminal in this case.Bob Ionta
How do we know we're living in the 21st century LOL.
Hi Bob! Please pass along our best wishes to the divine Ms 'E'! How are you folks doing?
The tree is at my mother's on the South Shore. It's still hanging on, but it's day's must be numbered. I don't recollect ever seeing moths, but there were about a bazillion little caterpillars. When the tree leafs (leaves?) out, the leaves are not healthy.
For some official details, click here:
http://www.massnrc.org/pests/linkeddocuments/pestalerts/wintermothpestalert.htm
I'm Australian, and we have our own problems with various pests, But next time any of your collegues/ local farmers etc start to push the 'free trade by stopping quarantine in Australia and NZ' bandwagon, please remember this current sobering experience.
20 years ago we had a local native beetle go out of control, largely because of overclearing and 'imbalance'. this killed a very large proportion of eucalypts through central New South Wales (an area a bit bigger than you 5 NE states combined). The good part is that some of the forests seem to be recovering, although I gather the species diversity is not as good as it was.
PS the Kiwi's have managed to almost clear several off-shore islands of animal pests, starting with trapping and finishing with military snipers using nightsites.
Ok a couple thougts first off you can treat Ash trees. Thier is a substance you can get at the local store to treat against this. You treat it (if I recall) in the spring but you have to pore this stuff in a large amount around the tree so it soaks it up. According to the local DNR types the way the ash bore kills is it lays it eggs (or what ever) into the tree and then when the hatch the larve eat the tree under the back killing the tree. It is first noticed at the tips near the top. The way to prevent this is to treat with a chemical that gets into the tree (and insectiside of some sort) and then the larve hatch and eat the tree they die befor they can do much harm. Issue is you have to treat the tree once or twice a year and it cost about 50 bucks a treatment (depending on the tree) and you have dumpled insectiside into the ground.
My folks have one ash they have kept alive (only one they have) when a bunch of others on neighbors property have died off.
The issue with these types of pests are that we bring them in from areas around the world and nothing in the new area is used to them so thier is not control on them. This is the issue with fast transport of anything. This is why the lakes in the great lakes area are in trouble, and this is why a pandemic of some sort (such as Bird Flu) is almost in evitable. Only way to stop this is to stop the fast import of anything. (including peaple) but I don't think we will go back to using slow steam ships to travel with and give up the jets.
Heck in the great lakes thier is a movement to stop ships from taking balast water from over seas and dumping it in the lakes (a bit late I think but maybe we can stop anything else from getting into them) and we are getting nothing but fights against even this.
Doug Meyer
As an arborist near philadelphia we are watching emerald ash borer very closely. Two brand names of chemical treatments are Merit and Safari(labaled in certain states.) both are applied on the soil near the base of the tree. It has a little more kick, so to speak, than the stuff you can get in the store. But it doesn't come cheap though, upwards $1000 a gallon wholesale to the trade.i think researchers are retaining seed stock because they think the beetle will eat itself to death by eliminating food source. Steve
Treeguy:Three questions:a) at the price you quoted, does this stuff make for a lasting treatment?
b) what else does it kill in the soil and surroundings?
c) Am I right in hoping that our relatively isolaed forest might not be hit by the beetles, due to their seeming reluctance to travel over distance?Joe
Treeguy:Three questions:a) at the price you quoted, does this stuff make for a lasting treatment?
b) what else does it kill in the soil and surroundings?
c) Am I right in hoping that our relatively isolaed forest might not be hit by the beetles, due to their seeming reluctance to travel over distance?JoeFor Emerald Ash borer it is done every year typically in fall (ideal) i beleive to allow uptake before spring to catch the larvae then start being active. A tree that is 12" in diameter take would be at least $75; more than likely more.The active chemical is a neonicotinoid that gets taken up into the tree. It will kill grubs and some other soil borne larvae. You can search it to find out more.They go to the easiest food source available, but will fly. This begs the question of how isolated you are. If there are ash trees within .5 miles of your stand you could be in trouble. I can only dole out so much info typing. Call your local county extension agent. The person should help and may even assess you site if you promise lunch.Hopefully all works out well for you.Steve
I'll pass this on to my parents, thanks. I live about 800 miles from that stand of trees. It is a largely protected virgin forest, with most of it under a conservtion easement. Some of the trees are hundreds of years old and two to three feet in diameter.
That's why we worry. It is literally irreplacable.
Joe
http://www.ohioagriculture.gov/eab/
Joe,
I would not hold my breath on that one. I live at ground zero for the emerald ash borer(Ann Arbor, MI area) and a friend and I on a drive home from Monroe, MI (40mi) yesterday decided to indentify any living ash trees and we saw zero. 3ft giants to 6"saplings, all dead. There is a 1000 acre woods across from my farm and all the ash in that woods are dead. Firewood is pretty easy to come by in my area.
Terry
What a terrible shame.
J
Was watching an older eposide of This Old House, the season where they purchased a old farm house and barn for their 25 aniversery show. They had an arborist inspecting the trees on the homestead and both mature White Ash trees had the disease know as 'Ash Yellows', the trees needed to be destoyed as the disease (which has no known cure) causes the wood to turn soft and punky . The tell tale signs of the disease is the tree dies back at the tips and suckers profusely.
Arborist said he destroys as many White Ash trees today, as he used to destroy American Chestnuts when he first started in the business 25 years ago.
Here in Michigan, and now in many of the surrounding states, the problem is a beetle, the Green Ash Borer. It gets under the bark and kills that way. There is no known treatment. In SE Michigan we have lost ashes in the millions. On our street alone, they cut down 40 of them two years ago. Originally the state required that the trees be shredded and burned. The MSU Ag School has now shown that if they are debarked and the bark burned, then the rest can be lumbered and used. It would be nice if they started doing that so that at least there would be a source of inexpensive but straight-grained lumber.
Twenty-five years ago was 1981 or thereabouts. I thought most of the Chestnut trees were long gone before then. It was the 1930s, as I recall, that most were being wiped out.
Certainly by the 1980s there were a lot scarcer than White Ash trees today, no?
I've planted a couple American Chestnut trees on my property; but I don't expect them to live beyond a decade or so. As I understand it, they grow fine as seedlings, then are attacked as young trees.
I've planted dozens of White Ash, too. Probably not much hope for them either.
Allen
Allen, where do you buy American Chestnut trees? How much are they?
Thanks mike
Here's one place...
http://www.acf.org/
Might want to check out this link http://www.americanelm.com/, this nursery is growning the Princeton Elm, which is supposed to be resisant to Dutch Elm disease..
I think my local Home Depot had some American Elm for sale lately. At least that's what my girlfreind told me. Said she saw a sign "Save the American Elm" out in the nursery area with a bunch of trees by it.
Mike,
Your girlfriend is correct. I read an article somewhere on the WEB that HD is conducting a campaign to restore the Elm through a Georgian grower.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hi Bob,
I'll have to pick one up the next time they get them in stock. That and I'm planning on buying some seedlings of American Chestnut from http://www.acf.org next spring.
mike
mike,
Found it. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/2007-05-07-american-elm_N.htm
Nice read and good luck with the chestnut trees. I tried some chestnuts up in here in northern NH, but I guess they couldn't handle the bitter cold in winter.
By the way, I'm thinking of selling the Type 3. I figure that not being a collector and I could use the money for perhaps something more appropriate to my goals.
Oh boy, get this, a dust collector!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
That type 3 is definetly a collector's tool. If you're not a collector, then it gets old to look at. I have an early F. Nicholson Living in Wretham plane that I'm considering parting with. Being made in the early 1700's it belongs in a museum rather than my basement but I got a lot more tools I'd like to get rid of first. Your type 3 should bring in over $500. Did you fix the tote?
Hi mike,
Yes, but it was a wrestling match until I found out what you can do with some sliced up sections of an inner tube! Then some judicious application of clamps and it came out quite nicely. Man, gluing totes is an exercise!
I was tempted to clean up the finish afterwards but thought better of it.
I'm not pressed for time so am not sure what the best way is to sell it. Perhaps a separate post here might be in order as I don't know any collectors.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Take decent pictures of it and throw it on eBay. Take one of each side, one of the bottom, one of the frog, one of the blade stamp, one of the lever cap and one of the repaired tote. Collectors will see it and bid on it. If you don't have an eBay account, create one and buy a few things first to get feedback and learn the process. Buyers are wary of bidding on stuff with eBayers with 0 feedback. I've been doing it for a couple of years now and love it.
I've collected tools since I was 14 and had over 650 of them at one time. I ran out of shelf space (16' worth with six shelves per section) and realized I had to get rid of some of them. Plus I was burnt out and owed nearly everything I ever wanted to own. So I put some old Stanley Tool magazines by John Walter on eBay and couldn't believe how much I got for them. I started rummaging around for stuff I had no use for and would never miss. The more auctions I listed, the more money I got. Buyers saved me as a favorite seller and evertime I listed more tools, eBay would let them know and they would bid on my stuff. In fact, I'm waiting for some of my auctions to end this very minute as I write this post. It's a ton of fun! I sell to people all over the world and rarely have trouble. When I do have problems, I try to reslove it as politely as I can and move on. Give it a try.
Mike, I bought those Chestnut trees through the local Soil Conservation group or the County Agricultural Extension or something like that. I forget, but every year they send out a list of trees for really cheap. One year they offered the Chestnut seedlings for 5 or 10 dollars (most seedlings are much less than that).
Musser Forests used to carry American Chestnut, but I just checked their website and didn't see it listed. I've bought hundreds of other seedlings from Musser; fairly inexpensive, and I've had good luck with them. http://www.musserforests.com/
Here are my American Elm trees after last October's devastating snow storm:
View Image
Allen
WNYguy,
there is a new variety of the American chestnut that is able to live without the chestnut blight affecting it.. Ask David doud for details..
They've also solved the Dutch elm disease problem and today offer elm bark beetle resistant American Elms..
So there is hope for the ash tree.
Thanks, Frenchy. My American Elms were all disease resistant clones. They weren't inexpensive, even as little seedlings.
I am interested in the American Chestnuts, though. I recall there were a couple groups working on it ... one was crossbreeding with another type of Chestnut, with the goal of getting one that was 15/16ths American Chestnut. The challenge was getting that 1/15th non-American to include a gene that made it immune to the blight.
The other challenge is that it takes many years for a Chestnut tree to start producing nuts.
Allen
WNYguy,
I'm not a fan of the elm.. but the chestnut tree, ah! there is something so magnificent.. Longfellows poem; Under the spreading chestnut tree the village Smithy....... makes me regret the loss of those magnificent trees.. while to me the Elm was grown because it grew big and fast and endured harsh conditions.. Any big tree was desireable as a shade tree but it took over twice as long for a white oak to grow to that size.. In modern America where speed is paramount that fast growth becamethe reason so many were loved..
Frankly if I need to wait a couple generations to have a magnificent tree like the Chestnut it's time well spent. Give me chestnuts to roast instead of those messy little seedlings and I'm a happy camper..
The true American Chestnut tree that is being sold now will require much more time than I have to grow to become the giant it's capable of becoming. However I intend to plant one just as soon as I can. Maybe my great grandchildren will have the benefit of that tree and think kindly of me for planting it..
Frenchy, I agree with your assessments. But as a street tree, the elm has its merits. As you mention, fast-growing and tolerant of harsh conditions. And it's vase-like shape creates a magnificent gothic cathedral effect when great elms line both sides of a street.
I planted my 16 elms along my road frontage, in a proud prominade. After a decade of nurturing them, they were decimated by a freak October snowstorm.
For the rest of my property, I've planted a range of native North American hardwoods: white oak, red oak, burr oak, black walnut, american cherry, black locust, white ash, sugar maple, red maple and others, including american chestnut.
The Burr Oak is a very picturesque tree, and surprisingly fast-growing. It's rated as a slow-growing tree, but mine have almost kept pace with the Red Oaks.
BTW, I took your advice and used shellac to finish my 1830s American Chestnut floors. Beautiful! Quick and easy! The floor boards are pretty amazing ... sometimes 50 or more annual rings across a single inch of width. Imagine the forests they came from!
Allen
WNY guy,
I envy your property.. It must give you a very comforting feeling knowing that you are providing for future generations such a wonderfully diverse forest. You have the right idea, diversity to help prevent decimation by any one disease or pathogen.
Not only are you immune to a total loss you are providing the needed biodiversity we need to have a good future..
My own place has several mature examples of tree specimens White Oak, Red Oak, , (2) hard maple, soft maple,Ash, black walnut, Cottonwood, (3) Elm {Princeton and 2 American, but my real pride and joy are the 7 varieties of apple I have.. especially my chestnut crab.
By the way,, if you ever get a chance to eat a chestnut crab apple fresh off the tree please do.. You'll be tempted not to.. It's the ugliest apple you can imagine.. instead of a smooth skin it's got a fuzzy skin, it's yellow and brown russets and maybe some red. but it is always misshapen always small and well,... you won't really want to put it in your mouth..
The flavor though!
Words simply cannot describe the heaven of a fresh chestnut crab apple!
it's crisp and tartsweet with a real cinnamon flavor to it while affording you the most succulent juicy mouth watering taste you'll ever experience in an apple.. Chestnut crabs will never be commcerically grown,, two weeks after they are harvested they are pure mush, heck a week later I won't eat one and I absolutely love them..
There was a piece on NPR - "All Things Considered" a week or so ago about the fellow who is proprogating the Princeton Elm and this year they are offering trees through Home Depot stores.
We live in southeast Michigan and have lost several ash from our yard. It's expected none of the native ash will survive in southern Michigan much longer. One concern is for the traditional basket weavers who use split ash, they will need to find a substitute wood.
David Cockey,
Not all ash will disappear! I say that because not all Elm disappeared with the advent of dutch elm disease, Not all American chestnut disappeared with the Chestnut blight.
Find out what you can do to help.. what sort of techniques are successful what sort of disposal or removal requirements are called for..
Go talk to your city administrator about the issue, speak at city hall or council meetings about the issue spread the word and help out..
Frenchy, I will have to look into that chestnut crab apple. I have just one mature apple tree in the middle of my yard; it's quite lovely, and the fruit is tastey, too.
When you say "Princeton" and "American" elms, what distinction are you making? Both Ulmus americana, true? I have one "Princeton" elm, ordered from a nursery in Georgia; it's a clone of a fine, disease resistant Ulmus americana specimen in New Jersey.
My other American Elms are clones of six individual Ulmus americana trees identified by Cornell many years ago as disease resistant. They are the so-called "Liberty Elms" sold by an organization in New Hampshire.
Of my seedling trees, I think my favorites are the Bur Oaks (Quercus macrocarpa). I planted several (grown from acorns) on a previous property I owned, and those are fine trees now, 18 years later. My Bur Oaks here are 10 years old, and growing handsomely; they naturally grow with a strong central leader, and horizontal branches.
The first few years here, I planted hundreds of seedlings. The acreage had been farmed continuously for many years, but very little organics had been returned to the soil. I had it seeded as "pasture" and planted many of my trees as hedgerows, breaking up the land into more historic-looking smaller fields. But with the poor condition of the soil, and drought conditions the first couple summers, many trees didn't survive. The Black Locusts seem to do the best.
The Bur Oaks in the back fields are 10 years old, and only about a foot tall, compared to the 15-foot height of the Bur Oaks planted the same time in my yard! I kept the grass mowed around the field trees, and did my best to water (large tank mounted on my truck). But I should have fertilized.
Allen
WNYguy,
Like you I ordered a replacement elm called Princton from my local nursery because it was supposed to be resistant.. the American elm are trees that survived the dutch elm disease when it came through, these are relatively young about 30 years old and since they show no signs yet of any disease I have assumned they were disease resistant American's.
I do notice a differance in shape between the Princton I ordered and the Americans I have.
I think you will in the end prefer the results of the Bur oaks that needed to fight for their existance. If you were to do a bore sample right now the growth rings would be extremely tightly spaced compared to the wide growth rings of the yard trees..,
Some of my white oaks are old growth, they started growing before the constitution was signed,, heck in some cases before the declaration of Independence was made. The tightness of the growth rings must be seen to be appreciated..
Watch out for oak wilt it seems to follow the dutch elm disease by a decade or more.. Treat any branch stubs quickly if they fall during May/June/ July or August.. watch carefully if the bark should ever be knocked off for any reason..
Hi WNYguy:
I see alot of posters are asking about your trees. I have an American Elm that I purchased from Miller Nurseries in Canandaqua (?).
It's doing well 8 years old and up to aprox 30'....about 10 feet to where the vase shape begins. Kinda cool watching ti grow. Bummer about your snow storm. I have a heck of a time with Tulip Tress and snow storms/ice storm.......gave up on them...still alive but seems I'll never get that elusive flower.
Thanks for bringing up your elm trees, in amongst the ash issue. It's alot of fun trying to grow different trees. Oh I also stopped trying chestnut.....just can't get them to take off.
Thanks for reminding me about my elm..............Neil
My video blog.........Episode 7 - Finish Selection and Drawers faces
http://furnitology.blogspot.com/index.html]
Neil, I didn't realize Miller Nurseries was selling American Elms; I wonder what their propagation source is.
I grew up near Canandaigua, and have bought fruit trees, grape vines, strawberry plants, raspberries, etc. from Miller.
You say you have a 10-foot trunk before it splits? Did you prune to achieve that? I really had to struggle with some of my trees to maintain a single trunk; ideally, I'd like a single trunk up to 15 feet or more.
Frenchy notes the shape difference between his "Princeton" elm and the other American Elms on his property. Every individual tree is unique, like individual people. The large, mature elm in Princeton, N.J., from which all the "Princeton" elms are cloned, is a tree that was chosen for its shape and growth pattern, as well as its disease resistance.
The six individual source trees for the so-called "Liberty Elms" I think were chosen soley for their disease resistance.
But I like the fact that my trees don't have all the exact same genetics; a row of "Princeton" elms would take the notion of a monoculture to the extreme!
BTW, I'm hoping to have eight survivors from my original 16-tree promonade.
Allen
My parents live in a virgin forest of about 55 acres. We only cut dead trees, and those only from a 15 acre tract out of the whole. Lots of our trees are ash. We have been following this beetle with some trepadation. There would be no way to treat our forest trees.
Our big hope is that we will be by-passed. The forest is in farm country, miles from any sizeable town, and a mile from the nearest village. I understand that the beetles do not travel far under their own steam, and it would not be too likely that they would go a long distance over corn and beans.
As I say, that is our hope, anyway.
Joe
My family has 2 great ash trees left:( they are nearly 180 feet tall and have a diameter of 5 feet plus.... we where talking off there demise this very weekend. It may be age in there case.. they where 180 feet tall when i was born some near 40 years ago. Maples are everywhere and are wining the battle for sun light.. Oaks, walnuts and cherry have a hard time in Northern NJ now...
Not sure Who to call in warrnen county NJ to lumber this wood...any ideas???
Rich
Check with Fischer & Son Sawmill in Andover,NJ 973-786-6020. I know they will do custom milling.Jim"There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other is that heat comes from the furnace." - Aldo Leopold
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