I read somewhere that the average age of the hobby woodworker today is 47 years old. Wonder how true that is. I’m 46. The article also implied that woodworking as a hobby is on the rise, being that people live so much longer now and therefore retirees are around longer. Just curious how accurate that average age is.
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Replies
No idea how true it is but with schools removing Industrial Arts classes in their curriculum, the cost of materials and machinery, and the rising number of baby boomers starting to retire in America, it may very well be true. Every time I go to The Woodworking Shows in Columbus, it seems I'm the youngest guy there. Woodworking just doesn't appeal to teens and twenty something year olds. Too busy growing up playing video games I guess. I was born a woodworker (I made my first project when I was four years old) so I'm an odd ball of the group.
Edited 12/20/2007 9:17 pm ET by mvflaim
S,
My average age is 64. I will retire on Jan. 3. YIPPEE.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
My average age is 64.If I was good at Math I know how old you REALLY are!
Mel, I hope retire is synonymous with retread, so your good lady will get a good few miles out of you yet!
Mufti,
By "retread" do you mean go to another job? Nah. I've been working since Jan. of 1970. I think we have enough to live comfortably on. Mary Beth is an avid quilter. I do woodwork. We both spend a lot of time at our crafts. She retired a year ago, and has it down pat. I have a part-time job at a local Woodcraft store, but it isn't for the money. I enjoy the comraderie of other woodworkers, helping and training folks, and learning about new equipment. Besides they give me a good discount on tools and supplies. Our first grandchild will be born about the time I retire, and I plan to spend a little time teaching the kid about m&t joints and handmade dovetails. Any recommendations on this retirement thing?
Mel
PS Merry ChristmasMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
What do you mean,"this retirement thing"?
Mel, I was referring to the practice of cutting a fresh tread on a goods vehicle tyre when the first tread was worn away, thus giving it a new lease of life.
Retirement does not exist in my book, being alive and doing my utmost to make that have meaning is the only thing that matters. Some good, some bad, but whilst there is tomorrow what is there to worry about.
mufti,
Thanks for the explanation of the true meaning of retirement. I have been doing woodwork as a hobby since 1968 -- almost every evening and most weekend days. I only get a few hours in and have to put everything away. I am looking forward to "retirement" not as a lessening of activity but as a change in direction of activity. I have thoroughly enjoyed working at NASA lo these last 28 years. The great thing about NASA is that everybody who is there WANTS to be there. NASA is a "go-get-em" lot of people. Never a dull moment.On the negative side, nothing in NASA is done by one person. Every project is touched by hundreds to thousands of people. One thing I enjoy about woodworking is that what I turn out is MINE. My good ideas and bad one. My mistakes and my good work. My motivation and my execution. Yesterday I made a bread bowl in one day from a tree that had been felled in the back yard. THis is the second bowl that I have made from the two trees that had been felled. The last one took the better part of two weeks of part time work, but it was mostly a learning experience. I learned what didn't work as well as what did. No bowl carvers around my neck of the woods -- lots of turners but they think differently. So my new bowl shows a good learning curve. I probably wont carve more than an additional ten bowls for the rest of my life, but I REALLY wanted to learn how, so I did.That is what I expect my retirement to be about. Taking on new self-selected things to learn and do. Of course, that is only a part of the next stage of life. There is my wife, my three grown children and their spouses, and the first grandchild which is due within weeks. So I am not thinking about any rocking chairs, unless I decide I want to out-do Sam Maloof -- not much chance of that.Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
That Mufti has workaholia I suspect; so you must put aside his implied exhortation not to retire. Also, that retreading he mentions may cause you to go along canted over to one side and with a speed limit imposed (blow outs can be fatal), when what you really are wantin' is to be a Very Shiny Big Lorry travelling o'er hill and dale with ne'er a care and a big box o' tools in the back.
Gypsy woodworking, we might calls it - snurkling about here and there is the various tradition-woods and style-fields, to see what we might find. Work is for Victorian children up chimneys or tied to the ratting-mill. (The modern versions of wage slavery can be even worse: you might have to be a civil servant or a gew-gaw saleman)!
No, the pursuit of unalloyed personal pleasure is the key to retirement: have at it my boy and no holding back just because of some Protestant guilt about remaining worthy.
Surprisingly, indulging oneself in this hobbyistic way seems to generate happy times for all, as folk around you receive their ovely bowls or tallboys with none of the drudging to pay for them that is usually required.
Oh Fine New World of Playing in the Shed!
Lataxe, a happy little boy.
Lataxe,
You must be a hammer.
You hit the nail on the head.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mary Beth is an avid quilter. I do woodwork. We both spend a lot of time at our crafts....Any recommendations on this retirement thing?I would build (or carve) a nice four posted bed and make up for lost time at your other hobbies!Sorry Mel.. I HAD to! YOU brought up the subject.. Not me!Edited 12/23/2007 7:18 am by WillGeorge
Edited 12/23/2007 7:19 am by WillGeorge
Average woodworker...
I'd say there is no such thing on the planet.. OK if you count tools used maybe.. We all 'Do our own thing" even if we do not realize it!
being that people live so much longer now and therefore retirees are around longer...
I hope I'm one!
Just curious how accurate that average age is.
Do you believe the Lawyer that tells you something?
I haven't seen any data, but my understanding is that the average age is a bit older than that.
There may be some cultural/generational issues that effect woodworkers. My feeling is that older folks are wealthy enough to afford the price of tools and have the free time to use them. Younger men and women probably spend a considerable amount of time and money just providing for their families.
I predict we'll see some contraction in woodworking as a hobby. I also think the "hand tool option" will have a profound effect on the woodworking industry in the future. Using hand tools requires less cash and less space. As a pastime, its lower productivity is slightly irrelevant. It also offers schools a low cost, low liability way to teach woodworking. I predict school programs offering woodworking classes will be more akin to art classes than the vocational industrial indoctrination of the past.
In short, I think woodworking is on the decline and hand tool use is the industry's only hope.
Adam
I am 25 and enjoy woodworking a lot. Also, I teach Technology Education in Maryland. As of next year all incoming 9th graders will be required to take a Foundations of Technology course. The projects are more like crafts, not industrial art projects, but I am sure it will inspire some kids.
mgill
that's great to hear about the school you teach at! do tell, at least, what town or county your school is located in (I'm also from Maryland, and I believe we are lacking in woodworkers; I'm in howard county)
I teach in Anne Arundel County at Meade High. I have two classes of Production Systems, which I run somewhat like a "shop" class. The projects I do with the kids are either a simple jewelry box or a chess board. They turn out pretty good, the main thing I like the kids to get out of the project is using the tools.
Mel
Kinda figured your handle was from MD. Good buddy of mine lives there, just started restoring an 1870's farmhouse.... I'm down in Wheaton...Jimmy
Adam,
your posts always cause me to think. That is a good thing. I have long wondered about the reasons that more kids don't take up woodworking as a hobby. For a long time, I also did ham radio. I did it the old way - just Morse code on a key, no voice. I noticed (and it took no effort) that the average age of ham radio operators is getting way up there. Almost no kids are getting into it. When I was a kid, lots of young folks thought that ham radio was really advanced technology, and got into it. Also a lot of kids took woodworking in high school and as a result, did a bunch of it in real life.But it seems to me that Ham Radio and Woodworking are fast becoming the purview of older folks. I am not sure it has anything to do with the cost of tools. I have three "kids" ranging in age from 26 to 32. They are adults now (sort of). They have good educations, good jobs and are all married. They are truly members of a younger generation. They are into computers all the time. They like things NOW. They can look up info, and get it immediately. They like IPODs and other things that I think of as gadgets, which makes me an old fogey. Ham radio and woodworking just don't seem to fit into the mindset of the younger generation.One thing that personifies the younger generation is an "I need it now" approach to life -- immediate gratification. This is not a universal thing but it seems to be a strong pull on them. If one of them said to another "I just got a 60" TV, there would be much celebrating and jealousy. If one of them said, "I just got a Festool Domino or a Lie Nielsen medium shoulder plane, the answer would be "Huh"?
In my 12 hours a week at Woodcraft, I don't see many young folks coming in, except for those in the building trade. They buy the Fein Multimaster, which lets them do doors and bathroom repairs more easily. (an overstatement, but on the true side). I am a member of the local woodworking guild and the local woodcarvers society. There is one young guy in the woodworking guild. All of the other members of both groups have no trouble getting a "senior coffee" at McDonalds. As you can tell, I dont have a real answer as to why, although I think about it a lot. I suggested at Woodcraft that if the store is to survive, it will have to generate a new generation of customers, so it would be good to give woodworking training courses for FREE. That is like a drug dealer giving away samples to hook a future client. The answer has been NO FREE LESSONS. I suggested further that they not only give free lessons, but that each student in a class be given one nice tool at cost. Once someone has a Lie Nielsen plane, they tend to want 12 more. The answer has been NO. If anything is going to get younger people into woodworking, it is going to be people like Norm Abrams, showing young adults how then can buy a cheaper house and fix it up themselves. This is fast becoming a necessity. Of course, once you are hooked by Norm into making kitchen cabinets, it is not a big step to making Townsend reproductions (or is it?)Oh well, I wish I had answers. I'd like to see more youngsters getting into woodworking. The schools are not going to help. Woodwork has been relegated to the role of "a trade" and the arts have little role in today's schools because of a lack of money. The move of kids away from woodwork is a reflection of the values of society. WE MUST CHANGE SOCIETY!
WE MUST INSTITUTE A NEW VALUE SYSTEM!
WOODWORKERS MUST BE PAID MORE RESPECT!
I want to see T shirts which say
- Take a woodworker to lunch.
- Woodworkers need love too.
- It is 9 o'clock. Do you know where your woodworker is?
- Got Wood?
- So much wood, so little time.Have fun. As you can see, I am a frustrated writer. Maybe I need to start learning from you how to get into the professional writing circuit. But first I have to learn more about woodworking.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Yes, I'm average, and the sooner I accept it, the happier I'll be. ;)
> I am a frustrated writer.
After 1949 posts, we are frustrated readers. ;) Jus' yankin' your chain... your posts are always fun to read. You have a great sense of humor, and it comes through in your writing.
> But first I have to learn more about woodworking.
Just a shot in the dark here, but I'd say learning more about woodworking would not necessarily increase your odds of getting published. :-/---------------
/dev
There's not one woodworking magazine that is targeted to young people. They all have projects in them that Grandpa wants to build. Where's the "How to Build; a skateboard, pool cue, dart board case and darts, electric guitar, video game storage station, bong, dorm room shelving unit, car sub woofer speaker cabinet, etc."..... No we get "How to make a Shaker inspired pie safe".... mmmmm pies! Grandma makes delicious pies....
mvflaim,
I believe you hit the nail on the head.
Publishers publish for those that they think will buy their magazine. Woodworking publishers now publish for the geezers.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Where's the "How to Build; a skateboard, pool cue, dart board case and darts, electric guitar, video game storage station, bong, dorm room shelving unit, car sub woofer speaker cabinet, etc."..... No we get "How to make a Shaker inspired pie safe".... mmmmm pies!
That's funny to read this again. I have done this one before and I guess I will do it again. I am a high school teacher and most of the stuff I do with the teenagers is geared to "their" interests -- projects that is.
Skateboards: built a bunch of them. Used plans from magazines I had to buy because they found everything on-line and laughed at me for making copies of the instructions on how to laminate thin strips. Most didn't want to fiberglass when they found out it required sanding and shaping. They attached the wheels and glued 80 grit paper down to bare wood and left.
Dart Board: Nope would not do that. I have some limits. No feedback.
Electric Guitar: Only necks and fret work. Banjos and dulcimers yes. Most of the parts from Stewart MacDonald but a very fun project for the detail workers. Only about 4 out of 88 wanted to do it after the fund-raiser.
Dorm book shelves: No way that's too far in the future and "my mother will buy one for me" at the discount store.
Bong: You're in the stone age man.. plastic is King. They want t see some bubbles. The education board might have a problem with that-- it took me months to get permission to show clips of film from the Discovery Channel.
Car stereo custom speakers set in wood: sounds cool but the kids will use duct tape and cardboard to save $$ and spend the money on "spinners" if there is a choice.
The kids do not like plans and editing as a rule. They have access to computer software that's way beyond most readers means and they get to do personal stuff after class or during lunch with help if they want it. The pull of peers is strong and off they go to sit around doing....
Kids that want to build things today are a rare group. They all come from the microwave generation. I can deal with impatient students but... I have a tough time with quiters. That's the report from the frontline my friends. The vast majority of the students are not determined to the point where they get mad, throw a pencil across the room, come back and start over because they are COMMITTED. You don't see it much.
I don't have the answer but its a whole lot more complicated than thinking a different magazine is going to turn this around. Media won't reverse this slide. I have 2 sons who have watched me build furniture for 25 years, build several experimental airplanes(lots of wood) and build at least 30 kentucky longrifles in their life times and a ton of other stuff to include canoes, paddles, guideboats and oars, and plenty of banjo necks for lots of friends. They don't build.... it takes too long. Truthfully, I have never seen either of my 2 sons get up at 5am to get an early start on a project?? I've been doing it my whole life and I do it now.
Good News: Children and teenagers need guidance and help. Most of my students do not have 2 parents and in most cases that means the father is missing. The girls are hungry for stuff they never see. You can have a dozen of them working with you if you show them how to use a cordless drill with a keyless chuck. Once they get a little confidence they seem to want more and more. I believe FWW is watching this ball. They want to expand the group in both age and gender. Its a tough problem to wrap your hand around but one thing is true: you never hurt anybody by showing them how to do something good. I think working with my hands is good and I will do it till I just can't move them.
I apologize now for rambling so long this subject hits a nerve for me. Not like a toothache but a "wish I had the answer" type nerve.
Dan
I wouldn't apologize for that post -- well worth reading. I think you can be too pessimistic about how people will turn out based on how they are as teenagers. I had zero interest in woodworking until I was 40, and was in a school system where you didn't get any shop courses if you were in an academic stream. My brother gave up his career in his mid 40s to become a full-time carpenter, and I've had more changes of occupation than Elizabeth Taylor has husbands. When your life's as vacuous as most teenagers', you have to develop other interests as you age. The good thing is that nowadays you can do something about it, where in the past you were stuck in the road you took when you were 15.
Jim
Jim
I sincerely appreciate that feedback. At the risk of appearing too pessimistic in a response to a need-to-fix comment, I am still here in the trenches. My observations are miopic to some extent, afterall you only generate solutions in the short term based on what you see day after day. My view is clouded a bit after 20 years of training jet and helicopter pilots in the military. This is a high motivation group. Going to a high school setting was like hitting a wall. After the adjustment, you look for solutions to the current situation every single day. I chose engineering as a foundation for my education(after my first degree)because I love finding solutions. If its anything for the record, I won't give up searching for the clue... my other option is to accept the situation and collect a check. Not me.. its not in the game I'm playing. This is year 34 in the training/education business and I am fired up.
all the best and have a happy holiday Jim
Dan
I think as a teacher you just plant seeds and hope that they grow later -- but the chances are that you won't get to see it. Young people aren't into gratitude. They're not much different as university students. I lost count of the times I was asked to write letters of recommendation for grad school or med school or foreign exchanges, and to this day I don't know if any of the students were successful. Some must have been, but they don't bother to let you know -- perhaps they think that you won't think them important or that you're just doing what they pay you for.
As a pro bono I used to judge essay competitions for high school students run by a local service club. The students of one teacher at a small country school, whom I never met, excelled year after year. I said to one winner how lucky she was to have him as a teacher, since writing skills raised your grade in every subject. " I don't know about that," she said. "His classes are pretty dry." I thought of him toiling in obscurity, teaching classes that weren't "fun," and giving some of his students a priceless skill. Some of them would come to appreciate it, and I hope they let him know. I'm ashamed to say that I never did with any of my teachers.
On the plus side I did get the occasional card from former students, usually women, and not necessarily the "brightest", letting me know how they were progressing. Enough to keep the fire burning, and I'm glad that yours is too.
Hope you enjoy your well-earned holiday,
Jim
Young people just don't get how we had it when we were young:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QsWd5QC7K5E&feature=related
Jim
Thanks for the letter. Feedback is rare but I understand the signals and the timing with teenagers. Its tough but I figured it would be going in.
I get feedback from my former flight students. I have a card in my hand this minute that shows a student of mine who out ranks me now. Just to see him with his family and doing well is rewarding. His words are few but much appreciated.
Its funny how many students always ask me: Do you still have that old 1960's Volvo?? I drove a 1965 PV544 for 27 years while I was in the military. I think they remember things about you more than subjects you worked so hard to get them to understand. Hopefully some of the things they adopt will carry them thru the challenges they are on course to meet.
so long
dan
I too always enjoy reading your posts
I think that the best way to get more young people into woodworking is to bring our children and grandchildren into the shop with us. When i was 11 I helped my father build a built in bedroom set for my room. He knew which tools I was capable of using and allowed me to move on to different tools as my skills increased. That experience taught me that building something myself was always an option. Though I didn't get seriously into woodworking until I was in my late twenties, I had made a few pieces because they were things I needed and I knew I could build it better that anything I could buy. Without that early expose to the shop, I don't think I would be doing this today.
I now have a four year old son of my own ( as well as an 18 month old) and the four year old has started to join me in the shop. He is learning to use a cordless drill (with help from me) and he loves to hand sand. When he visits his grandfathers, both of whom have shops of their own, he has some tools of his own that he uses to cut and nail together styrofoam blocks. He loves to be in the shop and he loves to do things with his hands. This, I believe, is how we are going to create a new generation of woodworkers.
-pjw
Phil,
I agree with you wholeheartedly. My oldest didn't really want to go to my shop, but the other two really did. I made a short workbench for them and it is waiting for their kids. Our first grandchild will be born in a few weeks. I can't wait to get him in the shop. Both of mine loved to pound nails into a piece of wood. They would get an amazing amount of nails into a small section of 2x4. They also loved to paint the same thing over and over. I still have some of their "work". Mom enjoyed having them out of the way for a while, and we had a good time in the shop. Both of the ones who enjoyed joining me in the shop are still into crafts, although neither is a woodworker, per se. All three enjoyed making leather items from Tandy. They all made belts and visors and coasters. I miss having the kids around. Too little noise. Too few problems. But soon there will be a grandson just an hour away. I will make a dustcover for the cradle and he can join me in the shop at an early age. I am working on getting him a small dust mask. :-) Cant start on safety too early. Thanks for writing, and thanks for the nice words. Please write anytime. Seasons Greetings.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
My oldest son is only 2 1/2. I bet that he can hit the head of a roofing nail with his "John Henry"-esque swing and plastic hammer a higher percentage of the time than many of us could with his 270 degree swing. He uses his iron-less planes, spokeshaves and dulled chisels with nearly correct mechanics. He does, however, tend to sand only one place of a board, has difficulty starting his toothless saw, and kicks up too much sawdust when he sweeps. He also tends to leave trucks on the basement's floor and his square under the couch in the living room. Give him a few years...
Edited 12/21/2007 12:12 pm ET by MattInPA
Matt,
I am jealous that you have younguns at home. Congratulations. Enjoy every minute of it. It sounds like you are. It is too quiet when they go. I had an idea that I should have implemented, which parents could use when their children leave home. Take a set of their clothes, and put them on a "dummy" (I need a better word here) made out of a sheet. Take a portrait of them to the mall and have an image of their face put on a piece of cotton, and sew that to the face of the cloth life-size doll. Then make a tape recording of your kid talking. Make a number of them and put the tape recorder in the belly of the doll. Sit the doll at the kitchen table. If you miss the kid, turn the tape recorder on "playback". What could be better? Merry Christmas to you and your family. I have really enjoyed conversing with you during the past year. Let's do it again next year.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
which parents could use when their children leave home. ??How about cleaning up after them selves and they have to pay for the home taxes?EDIT: Nothing better than a home full of children.. If I get upset I go to my shop and lock the door!
Edited 12/21/2007 12:57 pm by WillGeorge
I will be 47 next month. Hmm....
My 7-year-old has had edge tools in his hand since he was 2 (well, yes, only very briefly at first!). He knows where the dangerous parts are and treats them with respect. He and his 4-year-old brother will sit happily in the basement shop, ear protectors on, as machines scream and dust/sparks fly (I was making table saw rails from some steel angle a few months ago. They loved the pyrotechnics with the grinder).
As much as any hands-on skills, I think that this is a good place for kids to be -- they learn about problem-solving skills, math, responsibilty, patience, keeping a cool head and not getting scared.
Keep your kids with you when you work! Turn off the TV!
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
Hello 9619,
I have been a ham and a woodworker since I was sixteen. That was in 1975, so, you mathematicians out there know how old I am.
Anyway, nice to meet another Ham/Woodworker. Am a big CW (continuos wave - Morris code) fan, especially QRP (low power).
I wonder if there are other Ham/Woodworkers out there? Who knows, maybe we even had a QSO (contact)!
I put the () so the non hams could follow the post.
Bob, KB2OEV
Tupper Lake, NY
Greetings KB2OEV,
I am N4YOA. Thanks for Knots-QSO. I haven't been active on the airwaves for a while. I had too many things going. I never did QRP. My rig had 100 Watts. My first contact was with a guy two blocks away!!! So the two of us have done ham radio and woodwork. Do you know of any young guys who do those two fabulous hobbies? or are they getting to be geezer activities?Adam thought that if youngsters got into woodwork, they would use hand tools because of lower cost. My belief is that if today's 20 year old got into woodworking, they'd want all of the Festools so they build things fast and precisely while remaining dust free. Who knows? That is what is nice about philosophizing. One doesn't need any facts.It was good to meet you. Lets talk more often.
Merry Christmas
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I'm with Adam on this one. When you start doing the math, it's spectacular how much power tools cost and how quickly all the jigs and gizmos add up. You can outfit an entire shop with world-class handtools for the price of one Saw Stop. Thing is almost everyone pushes beginners towards power tools. From Home Depot to FWW, from Norm, to all the great furniture making books. Hardly ever do you see a project where a cabinet saw, jointer, planer, and router table are not treated as required equipment. In the long run I think this keeps people out of the hobby. Pushing hand tools means you only need a thousand bucks and a small room to start cranking out projects. That's been my big epiphany getting back into this hobby.As for Ham radio, it died along with Heathkit and tinkering. When I went to college in the early nineties, every kid in electrical engineering had built a radio, a stereo, and a few other gadgets besides. Many had written programs in Basic or Fortran. Nowadays, most of my students don't know how to solder unless it's to unlock their playstation so it will play pirated games. Radio is a juke box, and their stereo is an iPod. Once we teach them they're just as good as we were, but by then they're into far more advanced technologies. They end up leapfrogging those wonderful entry level skills that you and I grew up on.Merry Christmas!
I would argue that one doesn't need 1000 dollars in powertools or handtools to build stuff. Here's a photo of a piece of furniture I built in two weekends four years ago with a cheap craftsman skill saw, cheaper jigsaw, electric hand drill, and 99 dollar tablesaw. The only parts I didn't fashion from stock are the turned legs (staircase parts from HD). Not looking for compliments (there's a reason why it's painted), but just making a point that if you want to (have to) build stuff, it's not at all expensive. Of course I had to buy four-square stock, which was the most expensive aspect. And then, one reason I am now into woodworking is the compliments I got from it. Now, with ten grand in power and hand tools, it takes me a couple months to build a set of nightstands as a Christmas present for my wife... Actually the reason for that is the learning curve and tool-buying process. But "I'm loving every minute of it" as Kramer says.
Sykesville, nice job on the buffet. I love the upside down stair posts. Very creative!
Pedro,
Good to hear from you. I haven't given up my jointer and planer, but I am doing more and more hand tool work now. I enjoy the challenge. I'd love to see the younger guys try it too. I don't see many younger guys anywhere in woodworking, either power or hand tools. I don't see many women in it either. I don't know how to make it better.You went to college in the early 90s and things were different then. I went to college in the early 60s (1960s, not 1860s). Got a BS in 64, an MS in 66 and PhD in 70. I knew a bunch of kids who were always under their cars, working on their stereos, and using ham radios that they built. I have three wonderful grown kids, but none are interested in woodwork or ham radio. They are busy with their careers and their spouses (not a bad thing).It has been a fun thread. Like talking about the weather. Cant do much about the weather or about getting more young folks in woodwork. I don't fret about it. I just go to the shop and make another project.Have fun. Merry Christmas,
Mel
PS it sure is fun hangin out with you kids. :-)Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hello perizoqui,
Heath Kits were great, but like many companies, they just were not keeping pace with technology. Ham radio did not die, it has progressed. If you want to bring back the old romance of ham radio, check out Elecraft. I have built three K2s and most of the accessories. Hay, is'nt that Garrett Hack guy a ham? I thought I saw something where he signed his work in Morris code inlay.
My older brother and I were talking about the things we use to do when we were growing up. He was a jock of sorts and I was (am) the nerdy radio / musician type. Anyway, we were discussing how we learned to do all kind of cool things and were never in the house, always outside or in the shop etc. We both have sons the same age and I was lamenting how my son will never get to learn the things in shop class like I did and, how he spent to much time playing video games. My brother then made a statement that really got me thinking. He said that we have raised a whole generation of introverts who would rather be sitting in front of the computer screen watching streaming video or playing video games than rallying a group of neighborhood pals to play ball or explore the woods. I think he has something there.
Bob, Tupper Lake, NY
Edited 12/23/2007 11:36 pm ET by salamfam
Oh, I agree with you completely. Which is why we don't have television, and we don't have any video games in the house either. Kids haven't changed, you take away the TV and PC and they do the same things we used to. At least mine do. I think it's us parents that have changed, we're the ones who allow this stuff in the house.
Best,
---Pedro
I'm getting into the discussion late but here is my 2 cents. I am 33 and my dad got me into woodworking. We would watch Norm on TV and go into the shop with very limited tools and try to build it as well. After college I would go over to my dads shop and build the basic furniture for my apartment and then house.
Now I have my own shop and take 2 of my 3 kids out into and let then learn what they what to learn. I teach them with the hand tools and my daughter uses some power tools with me watching closely. My daughter is 10 and my oldest son is 3 1/2 with my 15 month old showing promise with his toy tools. I hope woodworking is something that they all continue with after college. (I am getting ahead of myself just a little bit)
Chris
Good post!
I've got a 3 year old myself, and would love to get him started in the shop. What sorts of tasks do you let your boy do, what tools, and what level of skill is it reasonable to expect?
Merry Christmas!
---Pedro
Pedro,
For a three year old, give him a piece of wood and some water colors and let him paint. He will paint for hours, and he will paint more than the wood you give him. Give him his own brush. Make him a small workbench with a drawer for whatever he wants to put in it. Later look in the drawer to see what he values.
After a while, nailing is fun. They can get lots of nails in a board. Just make sure he is not eating nails. With the really young uns, it is full time supervision. They get the hang of it quickly. Painting and nailing are popular with the younger set.
Merry Christmas.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Pedro,
He started off going to HD and doing their free kids clinics and he got an apron and was hooked. When we go out into the shop the first thing we do is put on our aprons. I have a little work bench for him that we built together and that is his work area. He has his own little tools - Goggles, Ear Protection, small hand saw, square, triangle, block plane, hammer and pencil with his name on it.
We make things that can be completed in a short amount of time. Sometime I will have things cut out ahead of time and sometimes we cut it out together. If I have to turn on any of the big tools I make sure he is sitting on his stool. He has a great time out there.
Thing is almost everyone pushes beginners towards power tools.
I think this is a production thing. Everywhere you read about setting up your tools for production using jigs to aid in repetition... In 5 years, I have yet to reproduce any of my furniture...
In short, I think woodworking is on the decline and hand tool use is the industry's only hope.Or.. All the woodworkers magazines give away all unsold Mags. to schools for kids to pick up and read?Or.. Supply Virtual Reality woodworking classes on a XBox?I hear what you say.. And at our local school some BOZO School Superintendent cut all 'extra' classes (band, shop Etc.) to prove how smart he was!
When I first came across "google sketchup" I told everyone in my (large) office they should introduce it to their kids; sorta like a virtual woodworking teach-yourself something useful tool.
Sounds right to me.. I turn "Average" next week.
I don't know about "average," but if our woodworking club is any indication, the modal woodworker is a retired engineer (chemical or mechanical).There also seem to be a number of 40-60 y.o. software-IT types (I fit this at one time), and it seems that woodworking provides a more concrete form of expression than the etherial software world. I know my mother never understood my day job, but appreciated my woodwork.
GRW,
Congratulations on becoming average.But you know, statistics, can be deceiving.
While 99.5% of heroin addicts used marijuana before moving to hard drugs, it is also true that 100% of heroin addicts started off on milk. We have to stop feeding milk to infants. :-)
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I'm so old I guess I'm above-average. But I'm prepared to be humble about it.
My neighbour's 2 small kids are fascinated by my shop, but they're such over-active terrors I'm afraid to let them near anything sharp. One I could keep an eye on, two not so much. But the interest's there.
One area of expansion might be women, who seem to be getting into woodwork at a younger age than men. (Of course there's no such thing as female geezers.) In this area there's a visible effort to get women involved, with classes of their own etc. I'm not sure if it's because they've expressed a particular interest, or if it's political. Would women want to build different types of things?
Jim
reading your post about women getting into woodworking... hmmm, i had a thought. kids (maybe) 'used to' get into hot rods because of the bikini-clad calendar models on the hoods; how about someone sell similar with the girls straddling a jointer, or doing a pole dance on a floor model drill press. hey, now that'll get some interest. if this has been done, point me to it.
You could do a swimsuit issue with Lataxe. I'm told women everywhere find his 13 stone alluring.One thing that has gone unmentioned in this discussion is space. I did woodworking all through middle and high school, but when I went to college there was nowhere to do it. You can hardly set up shop in a shared dorm room, nor does an undergrad have the funds to buy adequate tools. I wasn't able to get back into it until last year when I bought a house for my wife and boys. Now I'm 32 and will probably continue the hobby for a great many years. Teenagers and twenty-somethings don't have the financial means or the space to get into this hobby. Additionally, their priorities are different. When we had our boys, I suddenly found myself spending much more time around the house. I don't have television, and there's only so many hours (4) I can spend at Buffalo Wild Wings every week watching the Patriots crush the opposition. My guess is that the average hobbyist has always been older and more settled.
Sykesville, sykesville, sykesville:
You silly man, if you want more girls in the shop you've got to start using the brain above your belt sweetie. You need to take a few minutes and think about what would attract a girl to a shop in the first place and it ain't girly calendars. That might work for 12 year old boys but there won't be much wood working going on (but on second thought...)
The secret to women entering the craft is guys welcoming them! I can't tell you how many times I read some comment on Knots about keeping "the wife" out of the shop or comments about little boys who are curious about the shop but never the little girls. I'd wager my Clifton #8 that if you boys spent a little more time making the girls and women in your lives feel welcome in your shops things would change a bit. You just might find one of us stradling the lathe putting the final touches on a live edge bowl or caressing the freshly oiled surface of a new dining table or desk, course we'd be wearing jeans and t-shirts but that's why they gave you an imagination after all!
I've made a living for the last 30 years as a shop girl (I'm 59) and it all started with my grandfather teaching me how to sharpen chisels in his shop. I've still got those chisels, I use them everyday and they are still the sharpest in my shop. When I was 18 and ready to head off to school I had decided on Furniture Design as a career path. My father told me that was no way for a girl to make a living, and promptly told me that if I pursued it he would not help pay my tuition. I went anyway and hold a Master's degree in furniture design. Upon graduation I landed a job with Herman Miller and was the only female designer in the seating division for ten years (there were 2 other girls in other areas) and I put up with a lot of crud from the boys. Most of them, particularly the older boys just could'nt stop marking their territory long enough to see that girls in the shop are no threat. I left corporate furniture 20 years ago and since have made a nice living doing custom work for clients in my part of the country and I still am confounded when guys say "wow I didn't think girls could do this kind of stuff" it really used to bug me but now I just laugh and tell them there are lots of things girls can do like ask for directions and match grain patterns in wood!
So in closing here's a funny thought. How about all you guys string yourselves up in tight little speedos and drape yourselves over your favorite powertool, we'll publish the calendar and all have a great laugh! On second thought that would likely scare all the girls away!
Merry Christmas.
Madison
pretty good, madison, pretty good. thanks for replying.
jack
Great response! More what I had in mind when I made the original suggestion. I notice that when Woodwork does the occasional piece about schools some of the best work is done by young women. Perhaps FWW could take a look at the subject, but I've no confidence that they wouldn't dumb it down into something patronizing.
I suppose at the hobbyist level there's always going to be a territorial problem. I'd hate to give up an inch of my workshop to anyone else -- there isn't room to swing a raccoon as it is. And imagine finding dull edges on all your L-Ns because your significant other had used them.
Jim
Jim:
What if you invited your significant other into your shop and she saw just how crowded it is and offered to help get rid of all the junk in the basement, garage or whereever you presently have your shop so you guys could have more room?
What if you taught her how to sharpen your LN's and chisels after she's done with them? What if you found that this new relationship enhanced both of your lives?
I introduced my hubby to the world of wood by giving him a very beat up Stanley block plane after our 2nd date with the promise that I'd teach him to sharpen it. We've just celebrated 35 years making shavings together, and you know what, that block plane is still with us and is always scary sharp!
Just a thought but you just might be surprised by the outcome....
Madison
Nice thought, but it wouldn't work. My garage is crowded with tools and what I'm working on, nothing else. I'm the chief cook and bottlewasher in any case, because these days my wife has severe arthritis. Even when she didn't, I couldn't get her interested even in carving. It kind of surprised me, because she did all kinds of crafts, e.g. quilting, and had a flower design business while she could still work. Guess who got to make all the quilt racks and flower stands for church weddings?
She had the basement for her stuff, I had the garage for mine. Perhaps, wise woman, she just wanted a separate domain. We did operate a business together many moons ago when I was landlord of an English pub, and it didn't entirely suit us not having any personal time. Awful job, that. I have to laugh when people talk of retiring to run a pub.
Anyway, I don't see why a woman should have to be a visitor, welcome or not, in her husband's shop. Why not have her own? Not every man wants to work wood. If you're both interested, great.
Why not have your own work featured in FWW? It might be an inspiration for others.
Merry Christmas, Jim
We have a brain above our belts? I have long heard of this mythical organ but had always assumed it was just an urban legend.
Have you any scientific proof that the male above the belt brain exists? I can cite much anecdotal evidence that it does not!
I am amazed at what we get accomplished with the one below the belt.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
dgreen:
Robin Williams was quoted as having said that it is true men have both but only enough blood to operate one at a time!
My experience has been that most guys do quite well using each as needed but there are those who just never quite apply themselves and seem to come up short!
Girls aren't much different we just are better at pointing out your faults so you don't see ours.
Madison
You have accumulated a lot of wisdom for such a young lady.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Here's my recipe:
When they say you can't - do.
When they say you shouldn't - try
When they say we're all going this direction - go the other way
When they say you're not doing it right - smile
and when you go home at night make sure you've got the people you love
Madison
and when you go home at night make sure you've got the people you love I do that! My dogs bark when I pull up in the driveway and hardly ever bite me when I enter!My oldest Grandaughter lives with me but she is NEVER there!
Will,
You mention: "My dogs bark when I pull up in the driveway and hardly ever bite me when I enter! My oldest Grandaughter lives with me but she is NEVER there"!
I have a grandaughter that actually bites. Well,she chawed a hole in me shirt sleeve when I wasn't paying her enough attention. I expect that, as she grows, she will begin to bite my ankles. It's a sure-fire way of making a wallet pop out of my pocket and dump its contents in her grasping mit.
Happily she lives elsewhere and I need only get bit now and then on a visit to her kennel, I mean house. Her mother will not allow me to put on a muzzle, as the small rascal then does her Duchess of Pout act and the happy social atmosphere is spoiled.
Vicious hounds are as nothing to grandaughters of the determined type.
Lataxe, an expoited old pensioner.
Charming.My father just told me on the phone the other day that they've passed a law in Spain making it illegal to spank your child, or in any other way lay a hand on the little dear. With this sort of childrearing, it's no wonder birthrates have fallen to the lowest in the world. I wouldn't want kids either if mine behave the way most do.Why when I was young my dad would slash us in two with a bread knife and dance about on our graves. And we liked it.
---Pedro
Pedro,
You reminice: "Why when I was young my dad would slash us in two with a bread knife and dance about on our graves. And we liked it".
Only slashed wi' a breadknife!? You were lucky! We were put through t' mincing machine, turned into burgers and eaten by our parents. Then they sent us to school wi' nowt on but a brown paper bag wi' the bottom ripped open.
Lataxe, who 'ad it much 'arder than them Yorkshiremen, the southern sissies.
Now forgive me if my geography is not up to par, but I thought York was in the north of England? Are you a geordie perchance? In any case, yorkshiremen may be sissies, but they make a lovely pudding.
Pedro,
Yes, I am a little geordie waster but still a cut above them Yorkies, who are all mammy's lasses. I have a secret liking for that folk, nevertheless; and despite their boastful ways. (Geordies never boast - it's all true).
The ladywife is from Teeside (a smoggie) so is almost a Yorky. She hails from Yarm, which is only a few miles from the Yorky den of Northallerton, where she has relatives. (They are all intermarried cousins and play a single tune on a stringed instrument).
Of course, there are a number of fine cabinet-making traditions in the wider county of Yorkshire. There is that mouseman, for example, who made in Thirsk which is just south of Yarm. We have inherited furniture made by his apprentice Albert Jeffries, in Thirsk also.
So, we cannot do away with the Yorky, however annoying in his speech patterns and suspicious glances at other folk. However, you must never believe one.
Lataxe, nearly Scottish, but for the saving grace of Northumberland.
I am definitely below the average age for woodworkers ... then I stopped counting birthdays when I turned 39. In a magnamenous gesture, I have since given all my birthdays to my wife. I am still 39 years but she is now 176.
Regards from Perth
Derek (resisting being average)
Derek,
You have made a mistake in performing this gesture: "In a magnamenous gesture, I have since given all my birthdays to my wife. I am still 39 years but she is now 176".
"Why so?", you ask, somewhat alarmed (and so you should be). For this reason, my "boy": you are as young as who you're feeling. So that makes you 176 and your ladywife the nice 39. I am surprised you can still plane straight!
Lataxe, aged 42 and a half, obviously.
Lataxe,
Yorky - Korky, any connection there?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, Korky is no Yorky; he is Lancastrian and therefore a different colour of rose althogether. Nor does he wear boots or have a Spanish accent.
Even today, the Lancastrians have not forgot their ancient drubbing by The Tykes. They do not like a tyke and badmouth him when in their cups. Also, they would rather go to Glasgow shopping than to Leeds.
This is what happens when one becomes over-parochial. I feel most sorry for them unlucky folk who thought they was one colour of rose but found they had been dipped in the other colour by an uncaring Government shifting the county boundries (probably for reasons of gerrymandering). A Lanky now a Yorky is a confused little flower.
Lataxe, probably a skunk-cabbage
I agree with you 100%, we need more women in the shop (just hope the wife doesn't find out!)
-pjw
Before you all get to down in the mouth about the future of our pastime/profession take the time to check out the projects page of this forum http://www.treetosea.org
Most of these builders are young guys who love working wood with hand tools and the occasional power tool. Their a positive productive bunch from around the globe who exchange ideas freely and happily and turn out some pretty good work in the process.
cheers
John
Thanks for that tid-bit! I don't feel so old at 43 now!
I honestly hope I'll be doing this at 73! Maybe 83?!... There's just so much to learn and do!
Sawdust Ray
old at 43.. At that age my skin was not sliding off my face and neck!
When I worked at a publishing company catered to woodworking enthusiasts I remember a huge segment of the demographics our marketing department was aimed at the baby boomers. 40 -60 year olds fair amount of disposable income, family oriented folks.
I realize that this thread has gotten lengthy already but I wanted to chime in none the less.
I just turned 33 in November so I am doing my part to keep the average down. Woodworking is something I have always enjoyed. I had the pleasure/luxury of having a great shop teacher in school. He retired the year I graduated. He was full of wisdom and a dandy golf coach, but I digress. In high school he helped me though a beautiful redwood strip canoe that I still take out and use to this day.
I went to college and graduated with a degree in computer science. I now hold a position as a server/network administrator.
It is all about balance. I spend as much time as possible working in my shop, but every now and again I sneak in a hour or two playing on my Xbox 360.
I built my workshop myself with some help from my in-laws. Earlier this summer I built a lovely horse barn for my wife by tearing down my father-in-laws' old barn.
From this:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t52/NorthernMN/barn.jpg
to this:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t52/NorthernMN/Barn%20Project/New-Barn067.jpg
The last piece of furniture I finished was a large cupboard for the kitchen. I got a pile of birch at an auction sale for $30. I almost felt guilty. Almost.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t52/NorthernMN/Cupboard%20project/Cupboard_finished.jpg
The unfortunate thing is I do not know one single woodworker my age. I don't know very many of any age. I have done my part trying to get others involved but met with little success. It seems as though time is decreasing our numbers more than anything. There just aren't enough younger people getting in the game. It is good to know there are lots of you out there somewhere making sawdust.
I first started doing woodworking back when I was 13. Whenever my parents and us kids went to visit the grandparents, I'd coerc grandpa out to his woodshop. It didn't take a lot of coaxing for him. From the time I was 16 till I was in my late 30's I had no interest in woodworking. Other distractions, some of which were of the female gender.............
The renaissance began when my 2nd wife and I bought the typical This Old House. It had 960 sf of living space, on two floors when we moved in. When we moved to our current home, This Old House had grown to 2,560 sf plus a two story 26' x28' garage, the top floor was ½ storage and ½ woodshop. All during those 13 years I couldn't get enough of TOH, The Woodwrights Shop, New Yankee Workshop, etc. It was during this time that I first met Fine Woodworking, and when my interests turned from house building/remodeling to furniture.
My first attempt at furniturmaking was a pantry chest made from birch plywood with pine framing and edge treatments. I was so proud of that chest, even though it started to fall apart within 2 years of making it. It stayed with This Old House when we moved out.
Since then I have made numerous pieces of furniture, jewelry boxes, and the occasional birdhouse! But my birdhouses are not just cobbled together pieces of wood. Dovetailed joinery, combinations of different woods. I have recently have embarked on carving and turning. Latest/current project is a Queen Anne piece replete with hand shaped cabriole legs.
As evidence to my progress since that pantry chest, my pieces don't fall apart any more! And pine is no longer part of the ingredients, most of the time. My woodshop is about ½ the size of the old one and I get 4 times as much done! And I have Fine Woodworking to thank for that.
Oh yeah, guess I'm going to bump up that average as I'll be 62 in August and hope to retire to the woodshop.
Catching up to Mel & Will,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I'm 47, I'm an amatuer and my woodworking is completely average. I feel lucky that I'm not packing so much ego that I can't occasionally be wrong about something.
First of all, how do you define a "woodworker"? At many trade shows I attend, I often see a parent (usually a father) showing their kids (anywhere from 5 - 10) how to use a handplane or handsaw. One kid stayed for over half an hour using the handplanes and didn't want to leave.
As others have mentioned, the retiring baby boomers likely form the majority of woodworkers. The woodworkers I encounter daily at work are probably mostly between 40 and 60, with a fair number above 60 and fewer than 40.
I've been out of high school for a few years now and spend nearly every waking moment doing something related to woodworking, whether it be discussing with co-workers / customers, reading, planning, or building. It is my passion and my life (I spent 130 hours of the past 4 weeks in the shop, outside of my day job).
Chris @ flairwoodworks
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