I have an oportunity to attend AWFS. I have never been and was wondering if anyone has and was it worth it? I have attended some of the “Woodworking Shows” and they seem to be getting more like a flea market for folks selling used Router bits and the like.
Mark Rhodes
Vinworx.com
Custome Wine Celllars & Cabinets
Replies
I've never been to a AWFS but the company I worked for has been an exhibitor in the past. The AWFS is nothing like your Woodworking Show. It's geared more to the pro. If you have a chance to attend I would go. I doubt you would have the opportunity to buy and walk out with stuff but the products and tools you will see will blow your mind.
Comparing the Woodworking Shows to AWFS or IWF in Atlanta (they alternate as this summer Vegas.. fall of 2010 Atlanta) is like comparing a street corner clown to the Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey Circus. These events are geared to commercial but are like gettng to see the Seven Wonders of the World under one roof for the non-commercial.
Every major vendor will be there with their wares and you will probably see any new products un-veiled at the Show. I worked with a vendor at IWF last fall and I can tell you that you will not be able to see the entire show in one day.
So.... worth it? As we say down south... H*ll yeah.. worth every penny and then some. :>)
Enjoy.... you will, trust me..
Sarge..
Unless your into $300K "Trees in one end and a 9 shell secretary out the other", this show is not for the average woodworker. It's a professional trade show of the biggest and the best and other than this year Frank Klausz will be there doing DTs it isn't remotely of interest to most unless of course your into "Nesting production of a symmetrical cross panel unit marketing" seminar on floor 5, room 1876 from 9 am to 4:40...
Frank will be the only reminder of normal woodworking there.
Of course there are always the show girls...
BB
thanks guys. We have some FF miles and a few days to kill plus its a write off. So I guess were off to Vegas for a few days....Mark Rhodes
Vinworx.com
Custome Wine Celllars & Cabinets
Got to disagree with you on this one, BB. If you are in the market for a hobbyist machine where else other than Atlanta IWF and Las Vegas AWFS can you see them side by side to make a comparison which is the wise thing to do? The answer is no where else.
The gentleman is from Augusta, Ga. He could drive to Atlanta and spend two days traversing the city visiting dealers here but... he won't get to see one Mini-max.. Laguna.. Felder.. Rojek.. as their are no dealers here. Even though their are dealers for about all the so called domestic not all of them will stock every item the manufacture carries.
And don't forget Grizzly which has no showroom other than Seattle.. PA. and St. Louis. And Grizzly does not go to any local shows nor does any of the other domestics for the big part anymore as they used to. But... Grizzly does attend AWFS and IWF and brings the full line of what they carry.
Throw in many demonstrations as already mentioned as I assure you there will be more than just Frank Klaus. Throw in a chance to visit every BS blade manufacturer.. TS blade manufacturer.. throw in a chance to view about every WW tool of any nature that you would not get to see local with product and questions answered as the product it there. And throw in the fact that you may not need a WW machine the size of a house but are curious about machines....
A lot of throw in's.. a chance to compare.. a chance to see things related to WW'ing you have never seen. I personally cannot see that you will not walk away thinking you got ripped off for a $25 or so ticket just because you aren't going to purchase a $60,000 commercial machine. I don't believe that today... I won't believe that tomorrow.
I have been to the last 3 IWF's in Atlanta and seen it all. I will attend the one in 2010 as all I have seen so far will not be all that I will see. A manufacturer will unveil a new product you don't know about before the show. I had been over the new.. cheaper SS and Uni-saw while most of the folks on this forum and others were still talking and wondering about them and it was months before they had an opportunity to actually see them.... if they lived in a large metropolitan area that had a distributor. If they don't... they may still not have seen one in person.
So.. sorry.. but I will have to adamantly disagree in this case as to whether attending on a free invite is worth the price of the ticket.
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/9/2009 10:15 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Gotta go with Sarge on this. I have not been to Las Vegas, but have been to Atlanta numerous times. Yes, there are tons of high dollar productions tools (well worth seeing, even if you don't have a use for them--fascinating) There will be something for everyone. Companies like Grizzly, Steel City, Lee Valley, Fein, Festool, Delta, Makita, Bosch, etc, etc, are usually there showing their latest products. If you have the chance, I wouldn't miss it.
Kent --Lubbock,Texas
Edited 6/10/2009 11:29 am by srstool
Sarge,I would agree with some of what you say but not all. I used to go to the Atlanta shows when I lived there and have been to a few of the AWFS and to me, there is no comparison. I very seldom see people like WMH tool group or Grizzly with anything but the largest largest machines (sliders and bigger). This year, there will be no WMH (Powermatic, Jet). The large companies don't bring the smaller stuff, I.E. cabinet saws but they do bring the sliders, the edge banders (some of which really are over 200K), the CNC stuff.
I think it's more of a case of expense and the 80/20 rule. They won't bring what won't sell, (unless it's to people like Redmond that are there to get the best bulk deal/terms on 30-200 sliders/ multi saws. True, Steel City and Grizzly will be there. Grizz wid da big stuffs.I think there is a world of difference between the two types of shows. One is Trade to Trade and also to consumer and one is just trade to trade. The IFW is physically larger but the AWFS is more concentrated for the manufacturers that supply the materials and tools for other companies and the prime market is woodworking whereas IFW also includes other main areas such as flooring, laminating, surfacing and even new store fixtures. Both are international shows. Anyone can buy at a IFW show and I have bought from the floor, but unless your a registered business, you can't buy at all at the AWFS. Let alone take it with you. (at least you couldn't in the past but you do get a lot of free expensive goodies).There are smaller vendors there, like Forrest or Olson, Woodpeckers, but your not going to find the Gripper (not them specifically, but the generic little tools) like you would at a IFW show. You will find international marketing consultants and accounts at different booths along with one-off custom software companies.When I got my notice about this years show, I went over it pretty carefully to see if there was a reason to go. Paul Schürch, Marc Adams, Judson Beaumont will also be there in seminar but not in the areas most would associate them with. Marc will be talking about glues-- exactly the same stuff that is on this forum ad nauseam.
As I said before, Frank will be there doing his DT thing, but for the show entrance price you can get the DVD and save on plane and rooms. One third of this years programs are geared to medium sized custom shops like Shears with the balance geared to large companies although many smaller shops would find some of those also appropriate. Some of the real topic titles -- "Integrating a Nesting Machine into Your Environment: What They Don’t Tell You" or "Gaining a Competitive Advantage with Lightweight Composite Panels", or "Capitalizing on CAD: Enhancing Sales and Choosing Software - Osborne Wood Products" " or "EDGE-U-CATION: Edgebanding for Today’s Market - you can use a bar code label with an edgebander".
zzzzzzzzzzzWoodpeckers, Steel City and Grizzly will be there. Many of these medium to large large companies are there to sell to each other. Companies that make 50K cab doors a month looking to link with a base manufacturers. That kind of thing.My first response was somewhat quick and perhaps flippant as there may be something for some, especially with free tickets although registration is only $15.00, but I don't think that it would be worth the trip and the Vegas room rates for most people on Knots that aren't working large scale. I don't think there are many.We might just have to disagree on this one.BB
Thanks again for all the info. I guess by the sounds of it, there is enough there that sparks my interest. I am looking for a few specific things that can be demoed to me. CAD as well as something that can give me curved mouldings. Building wine cellars has some very specific parts and pieces that go into them and while i can make them on conventional equipment i am growing to the point that i need something dedicated to certain items. As far as rooms go I have found them around $100-$150 a night which seems reasonable for Vegas, plus I can write most of it off.Mark Rhodes
Vinworx.com
Custome Wine Celllars & Cabinets
Mark,
The show is well worth going to. Besides the tools you can speak with and get first hand info from just about every company that produces finishes. Where else do you get that opportunity? It could be argued that topic like glue is covered here ad nauseum. Yet when you can speak with some of the pros one on one you'll learn a lot.
I spoke with one person at length on techniques for various finishes. I don't remember his name or booth unfortunately but he had just finished writing a book on decorative work. We traded a lot of ideas and techniques. I found it very informative. There are also some very good seminars. Not all will appeal to you but if you do attend one I promise you'll learn something new and valuable.
AWFS runs a class act to be sure. I was lucky enough to be part of one in 2007. One thing is crystal clear with shows, no matter how hard you try, you can't please everybody.
Go and enjoy yourself, you'll come away with more than just products.
Peter
http://www.petergedrys.com
Thanks for the additional post as I have always heard AWFS tauted as another everybody.. everything show as Atlanta. Even though IWF has two buildings (around 200,000 sq. ft. each) of large industrial machinery.. the third building (same size) is more the Jet-PM.. Delta.. Grizzly.. etc. geared for everyday WW's even though truly designed for the actual dealers of everyday WW machines for the hobbyist to let them know what is new to market in the coming months.
I can't believe Jet-PM won't be there and that is a shock. I will say though from scuttle-butt at Atlanta traffic is down even at those two larger shows and some companies were considering skipping them. Even a small booth (30 x 40 approximate) cost around $60,000 plus transport cost for machines.. set up people salaries and room and board while there.. and travel home for folks and machines.
So... if you don't feel you are getting your $100,000 worth you might as well stay home. And I am basing on the size of the SC booth at the show. Want a poster hanging in the entrance to the main building? Dump out $20,000 and you got it. You can get an economy poster in a less traveled spot for around $10,000 though. Hey we are all looking for bargains I suppose. Wait until the next to last day before the show starts and if there is still available space for banners.. you can get it for a $1000. Just like those un-filled airline seats. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
So.. with your update as to who won't be there... frankly I would probably go anyway as I do love to see a tree go in one end of a booth with a machine inside and see a carved totem pole come out the other end about 5 minutes latter. And as far as I know.. Lataxe for some of the other carver boys are not hiding inside doing the carving.. just cutters operated by a computer command.
Good stuff for those that love machines... that be me I suppose. :>)
Regards...
Have a good day Doc...
Sarge..
Edited 6/9/2009 5:25 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,I'm sure you've seen it before. When I was in (as in the ad photography side) of golf, we would go down to the giant Orlando PGA show. When Taylor Made, "Goalltheway" or Ping wasn't there big time, you knew the economy was in the pits. Actually it was a fair indicator of the econ, as the sellers of premium stuff would have a massively smaller sales force and a much smaller booth when the economy was going south. They led the 87-89 market bust by about a year. Same after the tech bust. I think sometimes we (the buyers) have a better sense of economy than the sellers do. Go figure.sides--you could always have anudder Olmypics ther and go a nudder 2 billion in debt. By the by,did Atlanta ever get those cars out of the sewer pipes? I here's they's got a machine for dat at the Detroit Plumber and Yacht show in Detroit this year. Only cost bout 400K!Waiting for the glue to dry.
:>)DocSarge, PS: did you ever do "Silver Fox" over there?
"their" version of scotch. :-)
Edited 6/9/2009 9:58 pm by boilerbay
I don't do golf since the mid-eighties.. is Taylor Made still around building drivers? They were premium in those days and pretty much a market leader. Callaway at that time was smaller and targeted a smaller group of golfers with Taylor made walking point with their metal heads. In the olden days before the metal heads.. MacGregor had a large share of the driver market and a fair share of the iron's market which was mixed with the old First Flight's (later Palmer Group).. etc.
As far as has Atlanta considered hosting another Olympics and getting deeper in debt... I hardly doubt it. First.. I don't live in the city.. second.. I wouldn't at any price. They can pay the water department and quite a number of fire stations were closed recently with some younger fireman laid off. Simply put they are basically broke and have been for awhile.
You don't suppose that problem could be traced to management do you? I think you might understand what I am saying without spelling it out so I won't bother to spell it out. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/10/2009 12:08 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,Yes, management has always been a problem there. Don't think it will change. City could be a phoenix and climb out of it's debt mountain but it will take some "enlightenment". I left (used to be in the Lennox Mall area) when the water/sewer infrastructure collapse was priced out to be a 3-4 billion overhaul and it was to be paid by a direct tax to the homeowners (those homeowners who actually paid taxes). Final straw.
Now, no sirens, no overflights from Dobbins/ Hartsfield/ no trains/ no noise -- just a Coast Guard chopper twice a day.
Then again, here there are no malls, no chain restaurants, no 12 medical centers with endless ambulances, - but no Atlanta hardwood dealers either - I suppose there are tradeoffs.Just yesterday, stumbled on a local (a within 10 miles) sawyer who has reams (fliches) of Port Orford Cedar, Black Walnut, big leaf and figured Maple, clear Pine and more, who will cut it however I want and a pole barn to store it if I buy it by the boule(sp) and his BDFT prices are about 2/3 less than average. The walnut and cherry is air dried, the rest - kiln or air dried at buyers option. The board foot price included covered storage.
Sometimes it all works.Doc
I doubt it will change either, Chris. You couldn't pay me to live inside the perimeter. The City installed some new water meters that are sending out bills in excess of $2000 in some cases for standard residential and then they are making the customer pay while they check into it. If they don't.. they cut the water off.
The new media problem teams are having a field day with management of the water department as they won't make any public comments when confronted as several have filed law suits against the City because of it. No comment as it is in litigation. They should be hung for their gross stupidity and actions resulting from it.
The good news is most of the hardwood suppliers are in the suburbs not governed by the City which is a large reason they are in the suburbs. If I have an absolute need to go downtown as IWF.. I make the run during non traffic times of the day.. take care of business and get out as soon as possible. Fortunately I have little need downtown since I dropped season tickets to several sports teams in town.
Regards...
Sarge..
I believe this is the one I went to in 2007 here in Vegas, and there is plenty for any woodworker to see and they do sell a lot of stuff there. I bought my Bosch 4100 table saw there at a great discount. They do have a gigantic section of enormous woodworking equiptment, but the exibits of smaller stuff is huge, it would wear you out to see all the smaller exhibits in one day, it did take me 2 days to see everything. Tons of demonstrations and stuff you may never know existed untill you see one of the pitchmen demonstrating it. I live in Vegas and plan on going on Wednesday the 15th, I wont get to see everything but after going last year I will not regret going even if it is only for one day.
Tony
Go, have fun.
I use to attend Comdex in LV in the mid 90's. Much of the focus was certainly on the corporate customer but there was always someone from IBM, HP, Apple, MS who had lots of knowledge to share and you never know if you might be talking to the person who designed, or participated in the hands on development of the latest and greatest.
Don
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