Like G.W. I do always try to tell the truth, and hope others do the same. So why have F.W.W. in the past run articles emphasizing the strength of biscuits in mortice situations, yet now run a video telling us that they are not so good , but the Festool Domino is the answer to our problems?
Let’s have consistency please, or explanations if previous intensive tests were hooey.
Replies
Uh, oh, mufti. Careful, you might get accused of being overly critical of other contributors here. We are very politically correct at Knots now. Haven't you read the memo? Rich
Whether you use biscuit joinery or not is up to you. It means nothing to me. But, you should be aware there is a preponderance of lab test results from several sources that show there is little if any advantage in using biscuits either for strength or alignment.
One source I just heard speak at the Dallas/Ft. Worth Woodworking show says, especially with today's glues, there is no added strength value to using biscuits. He also said, and I have heard this before, that biscuits for alignment purposes is often a disadvantage and results in unevenness along the glue liner. This is due to swelling of the biscuits that cause a bulge in the boards. Even a year or two back there were lab test reports that showed biscuits add very little if any strength to glue joints.
I quit using them long ago. But, if one still believes in their advantage, fine, by all means, use the with best wishes.
I know nothing about Festool Domino. All I can say, from what I read, is I can't see much of an advantage from using it as a substitue for biscuits. I would prefer use of splines.
Billy B.
Billy,
More anti-biscuit prejudice based on vague hearsay! When you have used a few hundred and got your biscuiting technique right, perhaps your opinions on biscuits will be worth something.
Of course, it is always possible that biscuits are a cunning plot by the Swiss to take over the world. :-)
Merry Christmas.
Lataxe
Like I said, use of biscuits is up to you. If you can't find a method that works better for you, more power to you. Keep using the biscuits. If it makes you happy, I'll be happy for you.
The tests I referred to were not hearsay. I have had the biscuit cutter almost since they first came out and I used it quite a lot over 5-6 years. Woodworkers were doing strong, well aligned edge-glueing joints long before the biscuit system came onto the market.
Your reply sounds like you got up on the "wrong side of the rock".
Merry Christmas,
Billy B.
Billy,
Just teasing, mate. ;-)
Where are them "scientific" tests then? Also,why did you continue with all that biscuiting if you found they was no good?
I think your memes have been interfered with.
Lataxe
PS This is just more teasing.
"...sounds like you got up on the "wrong side of the rock"."Man I love those commercials. He has a new one out I just saw this week with him talking to a Psychologist. Very funny stuff.
Billy B.,
This I would believe for edge-joined biscuit joints. However, I never use them that way, but only for miter and butt joints.
I agree with your choice of usage. And, as I tried to say, if biscuits are the best way for you, at the time, go ahead, use them. My first choice for but joints, behind mortise and tenon, is "pocket hole joinery". There are also conditions when I would use biscuits. Those conditions do not include edge gluing or trying to achieve stronger joinery.
Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas season and by all means have a healthy, happy and prosperous New Year.
TRUE BISCUIT STORY
Abot 2 years ago in my home shop I built a faceframe @ 8' x 24" out of 3/4" oak. It's a typcal 3 bay FF with space for doors and drawers. It's just butt joints and biscuits, I figure the biscuits would hold till I can attach to the boxes and it should be ok. I close my automatic garage door then prop up the FF. Next day I open shop (about 10-12 hours later) and the door grabs the FF and drives in one diagonal corner to the other into the floor, jamming it tight. I try to close the door but it's jammed flexing the FF! I rush to get it free and it's tight! I try to pull it out, nope; kick it out;Nope! it's stuck and I figure a goner. Now I'm just mad and grab a small sledge and wack it out figuring I have to start all over. It flys free and after calming down I toss it on the work bench to see what I can salvage, but it looks ok except for some minor corner damage. I put a square on it and take measurments....It's 100% PERFECT! Not broke not tweaked. PERFECT!
I'll never forget that! Biscuits are the most amazing joinery systems. My guess is Dominos will be even stronger as they can be deeper and fit better.
But them biscuits man!!!!
10saw
I like that, Chaplin would have had a three reeler out in no time!
What you say emphasises my point. We have had many articles telling us that, to all intents and practical purposes, biscuits are every bit as good, not better, as traditional joints if used properly and I quite agree. Now suddenly, someone tells us, not expresses an opinion but affirms, that biscuits are not so good but the festool machine is tops. To cap this we have "the firm" asking us to discuss the point.
I for one am not about to shelve all common sense and buy a system tool that does not fix what is not broke, at great cost and to no purpose except, in my opinion, to pander to the cult of "more power" as parodied by Home Improvements
Hi,As I recall I had to design that FF around the medium biscuit size which made for slightly over sized rails and stiles. I would not trust the FF biscuits the PC makes and since I had a Lamello which did not have that capability...but then again I never trusted regular biscuits so I'd not be suprised to find the small ones bullet proof as well!I like the idea of the Domino for FF construction if they have narrow "dominos". That should be much stronger and faster than biscuits. Using the medium sized biscuits I really had to make perfect measurments so I didn't blow out the edge with the blade and those cuts were always scary even with work piece secured.I did get strung once by using biscuits in edge joining. Advice: don't glue them use them as alignment aids.But I LOVE biscuits! Domino can be another round in the chamber as it were.
Money? Gee I have hundreds of dollars laying around! wait I mean a hundred....I have till April right?<G>10saw
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