Hi everyone, I’m currently taking a wood finishing class at Palomar College and they’ve asked us to buy a 1-inch real badger hair brush. So far I have been unsuccessful at finding one. I’ve tried Rockler and other places in town. Does anyone know where I can order one from online?
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
I get mine from these folks.
................................................
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES...THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING, BUT...THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
Try:
West Marine http://www.westmarine.com
Jamestown Distributors http://www.jamestowndistributors.com
Defender Marine http://www.defender.com
Jonathan
Unfortunately, the brushes from the marine sources cited are not actually Badger brushes, they are Badger style China Bristle. I know it's not clear from the catalog listings, but Red Tree brush only lists the badger style china bristle. Besides, $10 and change isn't enough for real badger I don't think.
From my rummaging around on the web, I think true Badger will be pretty hard to find, and perhaps even harder to know you have found it.
I'd speak to your instructor and find his source.
Edited 9/21/2008 11:43 pm ET by SteveSchoene
"---even harder to know when you've found it"
That's pretty Zen! Maybe the search is part of the "final exam"! I guess to be absolutely certain you'd have to find a badger and give it a hair cut. Good luck with that!!! LOL
Regards,
Mack"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
check art supply store. They tend to have every brush style. goggle cheap joes art supply.
Any reason why a synthetic takalon brush wouldn't work? I use Cotman watercolor brushes for shellac because of the extremely fine bristles, and they're a lot easier to obtain (one source is http://www.jerrysartarama.com).
Thanks for all the input. I didn't realize how hard it was to find a real badger hair brush. Our instructor bought hers 15 years ago so she couldn't tell us a source. I ended up buying one from Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30271&cat=1,190,43034) so I should have one in a few days.
Those look like good brushes.
Iromero - Comment about using expensive brushes for shellac and other finishes - I'm a believer in not using a cheap brush, so I want them to last. Here's a couple of tips that will allow you to be using the brush years in the future (one of my watercolor brushes has lasted through at least 30 projects so far):
Dip the brush in the solvent for the finish and shake it out before dipping it in the actual finish. This slows down the curing of finish in the hilt of the brush.
If the finish is a fast-dry evaporating one like laquer or shellac where the cured stuff will re-dissolve in the solvent, continue working on your project until done. If it's a polymerizing finish like polyurethane or latex paint, clean the brush every 15 minutes or so whether you're finished using it or not.
Once you're done, clean the brush in a couple of washes of the solvent for the finish, shake it out and then - and this is important -, take it to the sink and cover it liberally with hand dishwashing detergent (with no water). Work this into the brush thoroughly, then wash it in clear warm water until the suds are gone.
Finally, buy a brush comb (about $3 at Home Despot), comb it out, form it into a chisel shape, and let it air dry.
Using techniques like this, you'll never have to treat a brush as a throw-away item ever again.
I was at Rockler today and they had a few in stock, but I don't recall if they were in the width you're looking for. Considering the price of gasoline, it's always smart to call ahead (858/268-1005) and make sure they have what you need in stock before you jump in the car. If they have one in stock, they'll set it aside for you if you ask them to.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Again, note that the Redtree Industries badger brushes are made from China Bristle--even though they are priced higher at Rockler than at marine supply stores!
Steve, what is China Bristle?
Hilmar
China bristle is the common natural bristle found in many, many paint brushes. It is hair from hogs, and the major source is China, and has been for a very long time. It comes in both white and black varieties.
Perhaps you realize this Steve... but just for everyone's information... the white china bristles are simply bleached versions of the black china. The bleaching action removes the black outer layer of the bristles and thus the white china is a finer and more flexible bristle. The Brit's call these "Lily bristle" brushes.
China bristles natural colors are mostly black but include brown, grey, and even white, though you are quite correct that much white bristle has been bleached from darker colors.
Steve.
Thanks for bringing this subject up. I contacted our finishing category manager and we are going to modify our description of these brushes to reflect that they are actually China Bristle not Badger. Kim will also be searching out a source of true Badger Hair Brushes. I'm uncertain of the industry parameters in brush description but Redtree's product labeling was certainly misleading to me also.
My apologies for the confusion on this product. Thanks for bringing this to light.
Mike Durlak
Store Manager
Rockler Woodworking & Hardware
There are no manufacturers of genuine badger brushes for finishing left. Some shellac mops are made using badger and other higher end materials but they are expensive. There are a fwe specialty brushes made in badger too. The problem isn't getting someone to make the brush - it's cost - the hair is very expensive ($150 a brush or so) and the best grades are not readily available. I would suggest looking at our Gramercy Tools brushes - which are European Ox - and perform as well.ps - as the brush designer so I am highly biased but ask aroundJoel
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
Sepp Leaf carries a variety of very fine brushes in different shapes. All are applicable to gilding but can be used for anything. I saw only one badger brush in the catalog, but my copy is a couple of years old. You can find them online at: http://www.seppleaf.com
Here's a link to one of the large Faux finish type from Dick Blick.
http://www.dickblick.com/zz063/35/
Personally I prefer to use a fine quality lily bristle blender as I find the Badgers overly soft for my purposes and excessively difficult to keep clean.
Here's a link to the Whistler brand brushes at Faux Marketplace... these are much more reasonable than the high end model from Dick Blick above... not quite as fine but still overly soft to my taste and should do just fine for student purposes.
http://www.fauxmarketplace.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=62_64&osCsid=367e8544ccc0e719893100baa4da79de
The only badger hair brush I ever saw was my shaving brush. Very e$pensive. You might try a Michael's or Hobby Lobby, but a high-end art supply would probably be better.
The Gramercy brushes from Tools For Working Wood are the best I have seen; thick, full, nice shape, balanced with the right length bristles. Worth the money.
I was just on the VanDyke Restorers web site getting some Italian bending plywood...I noticed they had woodworking tools and one of them was a Badger brush..said it was genuine badger and to me looked like badger hair..you might want to check it out. Comes in 1", 2", and 3" sizes ...the 3" is currently on sale for 29.99.
Neil
Edited 9/29/2008 2:53 pm ET by noviceneil
Lee Valley sells finishing brushes that consist of badger, skunk and hog bristles. They're not cheap, but they will last if you take care of them.
Jim
The Van Dyke Brushes are the same fake badger as everyone elses "badger" bursh. the line is painted on. Hog Bristle, China Bristle are all the same thing. "Flagging" means that after the brush is assembled it is whipped against a machine to split the ends of the bristles making it finer. If the brush were real Badger it would be about $150In the early 20th century - before spray equipment was invented good fine brushes were essentile in any industry that did fine painting. The car industry for one. THe best brushes were made out of badger, Fitch or European Ox. Currently Fitch (a type of weaseal) is not available except in very very small brushes. The animal is protected in some regions. Badger is also protected and only available at great cost. IT comes in qualities. Look at the price of real badger shaving brushes to get an idea of what a 2" brush for finishing would cost. European Ox is made if the ear hair of certain species of european cattle and since they are slaughtered for food anyway the hair is very expensive (compared to bristle) but at least available.
Joel
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
Why is it, I wonder, that there is a large enough group of men willing to part with the bucks (or £) for badger shaving brushes, but not enough who are willing to part with similar bucks to buy badger varnishing brushes.
THat's easy - I don't know how many men still use a shaving brush in the US but it has to be a much much higher number than those needing a good finishing brush. Also I bet most shaving brushes are given as gifts. Finally remember that badger comes in qualities and most qualities aren't suitable for brushes. Finally try our 100% European Ox brushes - compare it to real badger you will be pleasantly surprised. Also it seems to me using a comparable material that isn't endangered makes more sense anyway. Joel
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
I do have a ox ear varnish brush that is Very nice. I didn't get it from you however, as I recall it came from Sepp Leaf when I still lived in Manhattan. I think they also carried the Ronan Quick Rubbing Varnish, which is a phenolic varnish similar to the late lamented Behlen 4 Hour Rubbing Varnish. I still see it in the Ronan product line up, but haven't located a retail source.
Steve,
All I can say is next time you need a brush - try ours!joelJoel
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
The Van Dyke description says:
"a hand assembled badger and natural haired, cup chiseled, flag bristled brush"
That's not really the same as saying it is entirely made of genuine badger hair. It could be interpreted to mean that there is at least some badger hair with the rest being "natural haired", but the syntax is so tortured that I don't think it actually says that even, with the more likely interpretation being that it is a Badger [style, with] natural hair[ed], that is cup chiseled, and flag bristled.
Hey there,
I'd like to hear more about your experiences at Palomar. I've thought about taking a finishing class there.
If you'd rather email than post here, just click on my name to send me a note through the forum.
- Kit
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled