I am going to purchase a 14″ band saw for use in a home woodshop. I intend to periodicly resaw Birch, Oak and Maple up to 6″ thick and 5′ long. Your opinions on the Delta 206 for $699 CAD or the General 150 for $799 CAD would be much appreciated.
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Replies
Shinny,
I bought the Delta 206 about 18 months ago and have really enjoyed it. It seems both the Delta and General are made in Taiwan and most probably perform equally well. The General comes with a fense and the riser is about $50. The Delta is cheaper but no fense and the riser is about $120. You can buy an aftermarket Kreg fense for, I think, $100. So the price is comparable unless your adding the riser...then the General is less expensive.
Usually, Delta has sales and rebates for their Bandsaws in Jan-Feb....you missed those but perhaps there is an arm you can twist...lol. Good luck, you'll enjoy your machine either way.
Thanks for your observations. I forgot to mention the riser is included with the General for $799 CAD.
I own the 206, and it's a great saw, no complaints. But I believe that General is a Canadian company, right? If I were Canadian, I'd tend to buy Canadian. I have never seen any sight against their reputation either.
Charlie
Hi,
I believe the Delta is made in Italy.
Kay
I've had a Delta model 14 for many years and it has been a trouble free dependable machine. It's a basic band saw but it has done anything I've wanted in a wide variety of uses. If I was in the market for a new band saw, I'd look at Tannewitz. They are a respected name in industrial band saws. Their lighter woodworking models are, most likely, made overseas, as are many if not most tools, but they offer some nice features at competitive prices. The 16" model is on sale for $600, ball bearing guides, rip fence, miter gauge, quick release tension. I haven't seen any reviews or heard them mentioned on forums, I happened to stumble upon them while looking for something else.
http://www.max-ind.com/m_catalog.asp
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I have a Delta 9" and a RICON 18".. With a good blade in it...they BOTH do a good job for the size...
Excuse my language, but Delta and General if it is General International are basically poorly designed Chinese crap. If you want a high quality bandsaw, you have to go Italian. I own a Minimax MM16 which is rock solid, saws very smooth, has good dust collection, large resaw capacity and safety features like a foot brake with instant motor shut-off. Yes, it's more money, but you'll appreciate the features and value you get with the Italian bandsaws. I also recommend you look at the Laguna bandsaws.
Just bargain-priced copies of American designs. The Chinese have learned an important lesson. Do nothing original. If it sells, copy it. If we made a decent low-priced bandsaw, they would copy it. Since people put up with the 100 year old Delta design, they copied that. I have a Jet. Cruddy, but it cuts. If I had the space and money for a nice one, I'd add it to the list. A nice tool makes it easier, but your results depend on your skill. I don't hire carpenters because they have pretty hammers.
I don't hire carpenters because they have pretty hammers....
I just LOVED that reply! Good one...
I've been working wood for 40 years. I have some nice tools and some cruddy ones. I can do good work with the cruddy ones and vice versa. Always nice to get a high quality tool at a bargain price. It happens. Usually you get what you pay for and I buy what I can afford. Imported tools have made it possible for many people to get into woodworking who otherwise would not be able to afford it. The US manufacturers have gotten very lazy. Minimal innovation. The same cruddy design for the last 100 years.
The biggest problem I have is safety. No big deal to sell tools that don't work great. Buyer beware. Very bad to sell tools that are not safe when used as directed. I've gotten a fair number of imported tools that broke during use. A couple times I could have been seriously hurt if I was less experienced. I stay very attentive with power tools. More so with the cheap ones. No point in being too snobby about tools. Experience compensates for quality up to a point. Just takes more time. But, make sure the quality is good enough that its reasonably safe.
I purchaced the general international 90-125 last year.I've been very happy with it so far, no complaints,except I may upgrade the fence someday.Before I bought mine I compared everything available and found it to be the best built machine in this price range. I looked up the 150 on generals site to compare it to the 125 and found it has the 8 in. cutting cap. without the riser block, the 125 is 6 in ,and it will accept a 1 in wide blade instead of 3/4 in max.The table is 14 x14 on the 150 with an extention making it 14 x 19.The table on the 125 is 16X16.However I did notice a few things you should consider. First the 125 has two speeds the 150 does'nt. For some reason the motor is 1 less amp than the 125,and the overall weight is 50 lbs lighter . I think this is because they did'nt put it on a closed cabinet like they did on the 125,I really like that feature on mine. I paid $649.00 can. for mine inc. the riser block and a heavy duty mobile base. One other thing I changed my guides to phenolic guide blocks from Lee Valley.I really like them. Let us know what you end up buying.
Where did you get your 125 for $649 including the extras you got? That was a very good deal based on what is available in BC now.
I bought my 125 at KMS Tools in coquitlam, they also have store in abbotsford and a new one in the interior. Check out their website and register for the monthly flyer. I bought all my general machines there. The next one is the 15 in floor model planer. That one will have to wait a little while,at least untill the wood working show in the fall. Thats a great time to deal. I shop there a lot so they treat me pretty well,but I still have to work on them a lot. I will not buy until I get a deal. I have heard the price of steel rising affected the prices of the machines. Good Luck, and don't pay sticker price.
walker 1 ,,i'm in the kootenays and far from bandsaw veiwing,,i've been looking at ( on the net ) the general 125,,150 and the king 1433fx. What do you think of the king compared to the general 125 or 150 quality-wise
wgs
wags; To start off answering your question,General International and King are made in the same factory, and King makes copies of GI machines. When they first started doing this years ago, they didn't come close in terms of quality so they didn't sell very well. About two years ago King decided to get serious,and build better machines, and carve out a share of the market for themselves. And boy did they do it. I looked over, and tried out the KC 1433FX, and it's every bit the machine the GI 125 is except for some reason they put on a 14x14 table instead of 16x16 ,but I don,t think it makes much difference. But it does have a nice fence, 3 blade speeds, decent guide wheels, which are a new addition, and they put it on a closed cabinet with a door, same as my 125. I really like that feature.To sum it up, the fit and finish is good, it performs well, and it's a good looking machine. You would'nt be disappointed.The rest of their machines are impressive as well, and for what your getting, you can't beat their prices.
Have a good one.
walker,,thanks for your feedback. I was aware of the taiwan connection etc but havn't had the hands on comparison. There is a king distributer in my area with a 1433fx on the floor so i'll have a better look and go from there. I have a couple of other questions about blades and tension. I guess the question is how often do you change blades?? i mean if your resawing do you change the blade to crosscut wood or do people in general just leave one blade on unless there doing allot of one kind of cutting. Second ,how important is it to have a quick release tension bar on the bandsaw. Also i notice allot of folks talking about rip blades from timberwolf or highland hardware, is that a good idea or is there comperable blades here in b.c.
thanks wgs
Hi wgs ; About bandsaw blades. What you've head about Timberwolf blades is true, they are a top quality blades. And they are available in Canada under the name Viking. I use them exclusively. They are available at Lee Valley.As far as changing blades a lot, it,s a pain in the butt,and not necessary most of time. I use three blades,the 3/16 ten tpi,the 3/8 6 tpi and the 1/2 3 tpi. The one I use the most is the 3/16,with practice I think this would be your blade of choice as well. When I'll be cutting a lot of thicker stock I switch to 3/8, and when resawing I use the 1/2 in. There are of course bigger resaw blades but the 1/2 in Viking works so well I have'nt had need of one yet. As to your question about a quick release tension bar,if you were doing production work I suppose it would be nice, otherwise i'ts unnecessary. By the way are you just setting up a home workshop? What kind of woodworking do you do? And hows the fishing up there?
hey walker,,,,thanks for the info,,,,,,,,,,,,i'm not just setting up shop ,ive had a workshop for years and am a custom cabinet maker ,,which in the west kootenays , nelson area means i do kitchens and some armoire's,,built ins,the odd japaneese bedroom ,oldtime true divide windows etc.Not allot of high end work happens here but some . I do other trades a bit as well as the more you know here the better chance of you working. I just never got around to buying a bandsaw and just learned to live without it. I'm now feeling the urge to buy one but don't know my way around the issue much so i'm askin allot of questions till something clicks. At the moment i'm sort of stuck between the general 150 or the king 1433fx,,,the issue being do i need the riser to do 9 to twelve inch resawing or will the 8 inch be enough,,,i don't know the answer yet but i'm gratefull for the feedback i've gotten so far. As for fishin, kootenay lake has a great reputation for fish, but i only ride around it on my motorcycle. Thankx again ,,be well,,,wgs
walker ,,i had one other question,,,i use to buy tropical hardwooods at absolutly hardwoods,,,where is the best place these days at the coast??bill
Bill ; In the lower mainland I buy all my wood at Windsor Plywood. They have stores throughout BC and AB. Check out their website. I know Burnaby and Vancouver stores carry some stock, but that varies by store. They can tell you which stores carry what, and If they don't have what you need they'll tell you where to look. Walker
but I still have to work on them a lot.. I bring the recepits you have and tell them I am not buying anymore unless I get a good price!
Will George ; Negotiating a good price takes a certain amount of finesse and charisma, I'm afraid my receipts won't help you with that. So sorry...
Edited 7/13/2005 5:48 pm ET by Walker1
Shinny:I suppose you haven't bought a bandsaw yet. I got a Delta 276 (labeled 278)at Lowe's for $399 US. The reason for the purchase was that I could see what I was buying whereas catalogs mostly left me less informed.* As far as I can tell the 276/278 is equal to a 206 except for 3/4-HP motor and open stand and maybe single blade speed. It will take a 3/4-inch blade (if you care) & has a blade tension release lever. I added a riser block & special resaw blade. It resawed very well on some 8-inch wide amboyna but gave me trouble on 6-inch poplar. Figure that?! Yes, it has some clumsy features, but it does very good work. It is much steadier & smoother than the 12-inch Jet I previously used.*Grizzly's catalog is better than others. I have visited their store in Springfield & viewed their bandsaws. Their 14-incher may do good work but the Delta looks much beefier. For instance, the table is 2 inches larger than Grizzly's. I looked at it before buying the Delta.That is my $.02 US worth.RoRo
lots of folks over at woodnet like the grizzly...
about $525 with riser block and shipping.
View Image
Edited 7/5/2005 11:36 pm ET by oak
oak,
I would be very careful about Grizzly. Uneven quality on these machines, and with mail order you are really in for a headache if something goes wrong.I know, because I've experienced this myself with Grizzly.
yeah, i should have prefaced the post by staying i dont own a bandsaw, let alone any grizzly tools... but from what i have read, a lot of people like the grizzly quality, but i can't confirm/deny
oak,
From my unofficial tally, I would say that satisfaction with Grizzly is about 50%. I could be wrong, of course.
Edited 7/13/2005 5:45 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
I have a 9" Craftsman...........it sucks.
Shinny,
Your general discussion about bandsaws dovetails with my discussion on Powermatic versus Delta bandsaws.
I've owned a Jet 14" bandsaw for a couple of years, and have been very happy with it. But it has had some issues lately and I'm looking to upgrade. At first, I thought a new Delta or Powermatic saw would be the right way to go, with the latest blade-tensioning system and everything.
But now I'm wondering whether it would be better to move up to a 16" bandsaw.
I want to maintain the ability to run narrow blades, for curve cutting, while at the same time getting the more substantial frame of a larger bandsaw.
It looks like the Jet 16" meets these requirements.
Any comments?
Shinny,
I've had some problems with Delta tools lately. Not the bandsaw, since mine is a Jet. The guys at my local Western Tool, where I but a lot of stuff say that Delta seems to be going downhill. They say that a lot of the stuff is made in China as opposed to Taiwan. I have a mortiser, 1-1/2 years old and the switch burned out. They called Delta and found out that the switches were on a 6 month factory back order. Seems they had a larger problem with them than anyone knew about. Anyway, the boys gave me a new mortiser. I took it home and upon setting it up, saw that the fence was 3/32" out of square! The switch worked though. I called up and they checked their floor model to find it about the same. I spent 3 hours filing and grinding it into square. Enough about that.
I have the Jet 14" Deluxe model, for a bandsaw. The difference between it and the standard model are as follows:
1.25 hp motor in leiu of 1hp, heavier spoked wheels, blade de-tensioning lever, riser block kit. I put Carter roller guides and a Kreg fence on it. With a Highland Hardware Wood Slicer blade I can resaw slices of oak or maple to about 3/64" all day long. I think I paid $599 for the saw. The guides and fence were extra, of course. I'm not a professional, so this saw does very well for me. I, too, would like a bigger one, but probably only because that's the way I am.
I have an ole Craftsman 12 inch bandsaw that I thought was crap. Then I read an article in Fine Woodworking on how to tune up a band saw. Following the directions made it into a fantanstic, precise, smooth cutting saw. Now it doesn't matter if it is thin, thick, hard or soft material, it cuts smoothly and precicely. The major points were;
1. Have wheel tires in good, clean condition.
2. Align the wheels carefully so they are running straight and true.
3. Most important buy the right blade. The best place I found is BC Saw and Tool Inc. 222 Evans Ave. Toronto, Ontario Canada M8Z 1 J8 Telephone: 888-251-2236 ask for catalog. (toll free)
4. I use a 1/2 inch wide, 0.035 thick, 3 tooth pitch, carbon, skip tooth blade. Use a hook tooth if you are doing a lot of resaw work in thick/wide pieces. Requires less work and power.
5. After the blade is mounted, adjust the tilt of the wheel so that the blade rides in the very middle of the wheel. This is important to get a straight cut. It is not necessary to tighten the heck out of the blade if all the above has been done.
Thanks TB2. When you say make sure the blade rides in the middle of the tire do you mean both wheels? If I get the blade lined up in the middle of the top tire it will be on the front edge of the bottom tire. Should I put a shim behind the bottom wheel to move the bottom wheel out a bit and get it in co-plane with the top wheel?
After I aligned the two wheels, the blade ran quite well centered on the bottom wheel as well. The most important point is that it ride in the very center of the top wheel as this keeps the blade straight and rinning true. I replaced the guide blocks with Teflon blocks I made from some material I had. This allows me to contact the blade on both sides without causing it to heat up. The alignment of the upper and lower guides is also important so that the blade runs true and straight. If you are using other materials for the guide blocks, use a feeler guage to set the blocks about 0.003 to 0.005 from the blade surface. The trick is to set the blocks without moving the blade. The more I think about it, you should definately get the blade running in the center of both wheels. It takes some effort and time to get all these details correct, but it is well worth the time. Good luck!!
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