Replies

1. 
   SantaFeTom | Jan 09, 2009 02:14am | #1

   I used to curse my Jet 20" because of this exact issue, and still do sometimes, but I realized that the allignment of the blade could be the problem, not the saw. If the back of the saw blade is not perpendicular (from front to back) to the table then there is no way the guide will track vertically. Assuming the table is in the right plane, reasons the blade would not be perpendicular to it would likely be the upper wheel adjustment that moves the sides of the wheel in and out. I could be convinced that the blade will adjust its position on the lower wheel and find vertical but I don't think so.

   To actually answer your question, I probably experience about the same thing as you from high to low. Also, my Jet has a lot of slop in the whole mechanism making it virtually impossible to not have to readjust the guides every time I change the height.

2. 
   Tom7 | Jan 09, 2009 05:18am | #2

   I am talking to Jesse at Eagle Tools about buying an Agazzani B-18.  It now has a 3 HP motor, longer fence and improved guides.  How do like the saw?  What has been your experience to date?  Any issues other than the question you posted?  I am in Virginia and have asked Jesse if there is a B-18 any where close I can look at.  Thank you for any information you can provide.

1. 
   idahoknotty | Jan 10, 2009 12:55am | #4

   Hello Tom,

   I love the saw so far, though feel like I am just getting it broken in.  So far no regrets and I found Jesse and Eagle to be top notch.  I still haven't tried the carbide blade but hope to this weekend.   I posted some initial impressions a while back and have copied them below.  Please let me know if you have any other specific questions

   Forestgirl,

   I did forget to make it clear that the adjustments are minor and quite fast (~20-30 seconds, including any adjustment to the lower guides) with the guides on the saw.  I wouldn't call the amount of movement a "problem" by a long stretch, rather, I'm curious about other peoples typical experience (e.g., is a bit of fiddling needed on all saws to keep them perfectly dialed in, as I suspect is the case).

   Thanks,

   Chris C.

    

   Howdy,

   While probably out of the price range, I'll mention Agazzani.  I was in a similar boat and spent waaay too much time hemming and hawing about what bandsaw to get.  I ended up with a Ag B-18 (18"). I have had it wired up for about a week and have yet to really put it through the paces, but can say that it is an amazing machine.   It came crated in 300 lbs of ply that i'm going recycle into a planer stand and had been cleaned up and checked out by the Eagle tools folks. 

   I've put a $15 1/2 " 3 tpi blade on it, turned it on and was cutting 1/16" veneers with no adjustments what so ever.  It came with a lennox 1" carbide as well and I can wait to try it out.

   I nearly bought the new triangular Jet.  The Jet is a nice saw, though I didn't really like the fence.  I am glad that I held out for the Ag for the following reasons:

   This is a lifetime investment.  Perhaps multiple lifetimes (I have two young sons).

   I like that Agazzani is a relatively small company that doesn't spend lots on advertising and marketing.  The service at Eagle tools was great, no pressure and felt very honest.  They called a couple of times with shipping details to make sure all was well. 

   The saw and components are european made.  I'd prefer to buy american, of course, so this feels like the next best thing.  Actually I prefer to buy local and used, but was unable to find an acceptable saw after a couple month's looking...

   For me, quality tools inspire me to strive a bit for quality work.

   It was a stretch on the budget, but right now I have a bit more money than time and wanted a saw that I knew I would enjoy and wouldn't spend a bunch of time setting up and adjusting at every turn.  I'm also a bit of a perfectionist about these things and knew that I'd always have niggling doubts and feel annoyed when something wasn't just right or felt cheap.

   FYI to all, the B-18 has been improved in recent years in several ways with a new trunnion, a second dust collection port, and more importantly, a 3 hp motor and 13" resaw.  In older reviews and posts on forums that I've run across, several have said that the B-20 is much preferred to the B-18, but with the new improvements, Jesse at Eagle couldn't recommend spending the extra $400 for a quick release on the table trunnion lock (the B-20 shares the same motor.  The guides have also been improved and in my experience so far they have been very easy to dial in (contrary to the FWW review, for instance).

   In the end, the total price was steep ($2600 shipped and with three blades and a mobile base), but again, its a beauty.  I peek in the garage just to look at sometimes...  My only minor complaint so far is the foot brake pedal is a bit high and requires a good bit of pressure to stop the blade (the power cuts instantly). 

   At any rate, I'm thrilled overall with the purchase and doubt that I'll have regrets. 

   The link to Eagle Tools (note the specs have not been updated)

   http://www.eagle-tools.com/Pages/agazzani.html

   A very good review by John Preston that outlines similar logic to mine:

   http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/agazzani18.shtml

   Good luck in your decision.  I'm the first to admit that many of my motivations go beyond the tangibles and that there are many saws out there that will get the job done just as well. 

   Cheers,Chris C.

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 11, 2009 03:42am | #10

   Perhaps I should have typed "quirk" instead of "problem" -- I know it's not a huge thing, my saw does it also, but there is a fix for it.  Apparently, not high priority for me as I don't remember anything except it exists, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   PeteBradley | Jan 11, 2009 09:51pm | #11

   Trust me, once you fix it, you'll wonder how you went so long without.Pete

2. 
   idahoknotty | Jan 10, 2009 01:20am | #5

   Hello again,

   I forgot to mention that I came across this video recently that feature Charles Brock (a bit of hoot in his own right) describing the features of his B20.  I can also post some pics of my saw if that's helpful.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StcZGPdb7AE

   Cheers,Chris C.

1. 
   Tom7 | Jan 10, 2009 04:03am | #8

   Thank you.  All this is very helpful on the Agazzani B-18.

   Today I was able to inspect and use a Mimimax MM16, about one year old.  It is a nice, heavy machine.  It cut hard maple well.  The MM16 has some issues and I wonder how these issues stack up on the Agazzani B-18.

   First, the mobiity kit, Johnson bar type, is really only good for slow, short movements.  I move my bandsaw around a lot and need much more mobility, fast and quick.  Second, one wheel of the mobility kit must be removed to change blades.  The wheel is easy to remove, mostly an annoyance.  Third, it does not have a true trunion supporting the table.  So when the table is tilted, the table insert must be removed and can't be used leaving a large hole in the center of the table where the table insert should be.  A custom insert could be made but a hassle to make one.  Fourth, the upper guide post must be notched so the guides can be used with a 1/4" blade.  MM provided new guide posts to this owner but an annoyance to the owner that he had to discover the problem and ask for a fix.  Fifth, when using a 1/4" blade, the lower thrust bearing lock handle must be replaced as it is right up against the sheet steel.  The replacement lock handle provided by MM was hard to turn given that it is up against sheet steel.  Sixth, the Euro Guides took a lot of fiddling to get them adjusted.  I suppose one would get used to the adjustments but another hassle.  Finally, the 4" high fence has only one position.  So for rip cuts, the upper guides can't be positioned close to the work.  There is a tape measure on the fence bar but the magnifying cursor has so much parallax that it is virtually useless.

3. 
   forestgirl | Jan 09, 2009 06:27am | #3

   It's typical on 14" saws, but I'm surprised to hear of a problem with your saw!  One of the BS guru's published a fix for this, but darned if I can remember who/where.  Maybe someone here remembers....

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
4. 
   7Joel | Jan 10, 2009 02:35am | #6

   A serious bandsaw such as you have should not require the adjustment as you describe -- it is not adjusted properly. I would call the dealer.

5. 
   PeteBradley | Jan 10, 2009 04:02am | #7

   You should not need to adjust the guides after a height change, period. The guide bar should travel exactly parallel to the blade. On a big high-end machine there will probably be adjusters for this.

   For a rough idea of the procedure:
   1. Assess what adjustments the machine has. Look for two screws in the back of the guide bracket (a 3-point adjuster) or similar. Often left/right is accomplished by loosening the bracket screws, shifting it into place, and tightening the screws (causing it to go slightly out of whack again, repeat as required). In extreme cases you may need to adjust the top wheel left to right.
   2. Lower the guide to the table. Make sure band is properly tensioned.
   3. Back off the guide blocks/rollers and the thrust bearing so they're measurably close, but not touching. Give the wheel a few turns so the blade is running where it wants to.
   4. Go up and down and not which way the bar "leans" left to right and front to back.
   5. Adjust the more difficult direction first. For example, if there's an adjuster for front/back, but left/right is a loosen/replace, do left/right first.
   6. Keep testing going up and down until the guide bar is perfectly adjusted. Always lock the bar when you check as some move appreciably when they lock and you want it to line up locked, not unlocked.
   7. Readjust the table so the back of the table is perpendicular to the back of the band.
   8. Readjust the tilt so the zero stop (and the zero mark) is exactly perpendicular to the right of the band.
   9. Reset guide clearance as normal
   10. Enjoy more work, less fiddling!

   Pete

   
   

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   Edited 1/9/2009 8:07 pm ET by PeteBradley

6. 
   roc | Jan 10, 2009 09:41am | #9

   >Agazzani B-18

   Wow nice saw !

   I have an "inexpensive" smaller model Laguna and it has screws that allow me to aline this post bar so it runs parallel to a line through the two big wheel axles. Then when I raise and lower the bar up and down there is hardly any alignment change ! Way to go Laguna !

   I suspect there is a similar set up on your saw. Be sure to look over the manual.

   Might even be worth getting a home shop machinist to modify it. Mine is pretty simple; some threaded holes with some grub screws threaded in. Maybe a welded on nut etc here or there. It has been a while since I payed any attention to it. "Set and forget" as it were.

   roc

   PS: one way to find a home shop machinist is go to a motorcycle shop that supports racing and ask them for a contact. or if you can find a mom and pop welding shop. I do this sort of thing and there is a shop a stones throw away from me here a few streets over that would do it so I know of what I speak. Sorry I am in Colorado so I can't help you.

   I used to share a metal shop space with a friend. He made 80 grand a year at his "real" job and would get depressed when he had to stop welding and "go to work". You would have made his day if you showed up with this project !

   I have seen him get all happy over a ten dollar job. He used to grin and say " I made enough to buy dinner ". Yah it's been a while since those days. He moved to Nevada and last I heard is still welding and machining for fun.

   You think hand planes are addicting you otta try a TIG welder !

   Edited 1/10/2009 2:05 am by roc

   
   

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   Edited 1/10/2009 2:07 am by roc

7. 
   mike4244 | Jan 12, 2009 05:28pm | #12

   Adjusting the thrust bearing is typical for many saws when moving several inches.I am not familiar with your saw but I believe the fix is simple.

   Measure the distance from the back of the blade to the bearing or casting holding the thrust bearing. The measurement at the top and bottom should be the same. If not shim the casting that holds the guide bar 1/2 the distance you measured.If you measured 1/8" difference ,shim with 1/16 washer or shim stock and recheck.This may take several tries but eventually the guide bar will be paralell with the saw blade.

   I have a Grizzly 16" saw, the guide bearing casting was a bit rough on the back. I filed it smooth and needed .04 shim stock to get it perfect.This was about 12 years ago and have not needed to touch since.Check with the dealer ,they may have another solution. I do not know of any saws that have an adjustment besides shimming.

   mike

1. 
   PeteBradley | Jan 13, 2009 07:14am | #13

   > I do not know of any saws that have an adjustment besides shimming.They're out there. The Steel City 18" is an example:
   http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products/50250/50250_manual.pdf#page=25No doubt some others (particularly lower end and smaller machines) require shims. It's worth it though as this is a one-time adjustment and you never have to fiddle with guides when changing height again.Pete

1. 
   idahoknotty | Jan 21, 2009 02:04am | #14

   <!----><!----> Hello all,<!----><!----> I've edited my original post in this thread after discussing the situation with the dealer (Eagle tools). I've also inserted some comments that a member sent that may be of use to others. Cheers,Chris C.  <!---->I was hoping you could answer a few specific questions as I am seriously<!----><!---->thinking about this machine:<!----><!----><!----> <!---->1.  When you tilt the table, does the blade stay centered in the table<!----><!---->insert?  It not, then custom table inserts would need to be made for<!----><!---->table tilting.<!----><!----><!----> <!---->The table tilt is aligned with the blade so that the insert doesn't need<!----><!---->to be changed (one of the reasons I chose the B-18 over the MM16).  To<!----><!---->tilt the table does require the use of allen wrenches, but has a nice<!----><!---->rack and pinion.  <!----><!----><!----> <!---->2.  Have you used a 1/4" blade?  If yes, did the blade guard have to be<!----><!---->notched so the upper guide thrust bearing would contact the back of the<!----><!---->blade? Could the lower thrust bearing come far enough <!----><!---->forward to contact the back of the blade? <!----><!----><!----> <!---->A 1/4" blade works just fine with the supplied guides and doesn't<!----><!---->interfere with the guard.<!----><!----><!----> <!---->3.  Did you get the mobility kit?  Which one?  Does it work for frequect<!----><!---->moving around?  Does it interfere with opening the lower door?<!----><!----><!----> <!---->I got the ~$60 General kit from Eagle and it works great, especially for<!----><!---->the price.  Nicer than the shop fox kit my TS is on.  I have a ~140 sq<!----><!---->ft. shop so it gets moved a lot.  Does not obstruct the B18 door. <!----><!----><!----> <!---->4.  Are there mounting holes in the base for casters?  I am thinking of<!----><!---->the Zambus Carrymaster casters or the Great Lakes Caster equivalents<!----><!---->instead of a mobility kit.<!----><!----><!----> <!---->There are holes in the corner and leveling feet/pads on the saw, so<!----><!---->could be...  Haven't really paid attention since its on the mobility<!----><!---->kit.<!----><!---->