Replies

1. 
   mapleman | May 15, 2007 06:52pm | #1

   Ed,

   You may want to expand your list to include MiniMax and Bridgewood (sold by Wilke machinery). Both of these bandsaws are made in Italy, with a much lower price tag than the Laguna, which has received some poor press around here as of late (stemming from customer service - not the machinery quality).

   Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

   P.S. Oops, almost forgot - don't forget to include the Steel City 18" on that list. Sarge has one and has been singing it's praises since the day he got it. Sounds to be as good as the Italian saws at closer to a Grizzly price - with a 5 year warranty to boot.

   Lee

1. 
   blewcrowe | May 16, 2007 02:42am | #3

   Mr. Mapleman, I can't say as I'm happy with my Minimax. When I bought it two years back, I did not look hard enough into other brands. I find myself disappointed with a number of features on it. Others seem pleased with it. For me, I'm tolerant of it, but I'm also unhappy with it.

1. 
   mapleman | May 16, 2007 04:02am | #4

   Hey Blew,

   Sorry to hear you're dis-satisfied with the MM. I can't say I'm qualified to recommend any one over the other, as I have a Delta 14" with the riser block. I was just trying to throw some other brands out for the OP to check out before he makes a purchase.

   Cheers,

   Lee

1. 
   blewcrowe | May 16, 2007 02:19pm | #7

   Lee, no offense taken or anything. There a bazillion brands out there and many are happy with the Minimax. Just personal dislikes on my case.

2. 
   Cincinnati | May 18, 2007 12:52am | #11

   I often hear the Bridgewood is identical to the Laguna at much less (because they are made in the same factory). However I don't find comparable machines with respect to the LT16HD. The Bridgewood 17" PBS 440 is the closest, but only can resaw 12". The max blade width is 1". It is an $1800 machine. The LT 16HD is capable of resawing 16". The blade range is 1/16" to 1-3/8 inches. I don't rate these as comparable machines.If you go up one size in the Bridgewood line to the PBS 540, the price is almost the same, the resaw capacity increases to 14", but you do get a 21" max cut width.So what is important here is individual needs. Both these machines should last a lifetime for serious hobby use. But the difference is more than a bunch of money for ceramic guides.GREG

   <!---->•••••••

   Exo 35:30-35<!---->

1. 
   mapleman | May 18, 2007 03:21am | #12

   Greg,

   Point well taken. I am guilty this time of passing on hear-say. Someone mentioned the bridgewood a while back and that it was made in the same factory as the MM or Laguna. I did not check out the resaw height. I merely wanted to point out some other brands that were out there before the OP dropped $3000 on a saw that may or may not be the best for his needs.

   Lee

2. 
   Hastings | May 15, 2007 07:06pm | #2

   Edsea:

   I have pretty much followed all of the bandsaw threads for the last six months or so. I bought the Laguna 16 HD and I've been very happy with it. Sure, you will find some very unhappy Laguna stories but since happy purchasers are, by definition, less vocal, you have to question the number of satisfied versus unsatisfied customers. I have had no problems.

   If you go back through the threads you will quickly see that Sarge is one knowledgeable Dude when it comes to machinery. In fact he knows more than I can ever hope to know. Moreover, he really does his homework. It's like a stock tip from Warren Buffet.

   He got the Steel City 18" and I would suggest you do also. I got the Laguna because I was nervous and I wouldn't get a second bite at the cherry. But after reading Sarge's very detailed write-up, I should have got the SC and saved the money for something else.

   Don't get me wrong, I love my Laguna, but I was very green.

   Hastings

3. 
   jackplane | May 16, 2007 04:37am | #5

   I have a Laguna 14SE.

   Very happy with it, I use a 1" carbide resaw blade that works very well. Only complaint is that the table is small. I'm not sure if you're a professional or hobbyist but it can make a difference if you place day in/day out demands on your machine.

   Laguna uses a balancing machine that costs 500K to ensure the upper and lower wheels are in tune- a more important issue than tensioning pressure, IMO. The smaller saws are made in Slovenia(up to the 16 i believe)- the larger ones and custom ones are made in Italy.

   Test drive what you like. Go from there.

   Expert since 10 am.

4. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | May 16, 2007 08:48am | #6

   Morning Ed...

   "What will I use them for? I don't know specifically but I want to learn how to do some resawing etc. etc. and I want a good quality tool that will meet my needs whatever direction I go.  Any comments?  Thanks in advance". .... Ed

   *********************************

   Sort of a dilemma as you don't know specifically what your main function is going to be with a BS. If you stated you were a bowl turner and you do a lot of green logs, by far the best choice would be one of the Italian Stallions that has the re-saw height to handle felled logs and the power to take on capacities over 12". And re-sawing green logs that are still wet is another challenge in itself. They certainly shine with pure re-saw and ripping and can produce the tension to handle the large blades.

   But there shining light gets dimmer when it comes to pure curve cutting if that is going to be the majority of your task. You can't take a battle-ship designed to deliver fire-power and brute force and expect it to have the turn ratio or over-all flex of a destroyer which can turn on a dime and give $.05 change. An excellent 14" BS will do a better job with the smaller blades and guide bearing more suited for the task. Most Stallions have to be adapted with smaller guides to make them a serious threat with blades under 1/2".

   But you stated you wanted quality that will meet your needs which-ever direction you go and at this point you aren't sure which direction that is. So... IMO you should decide that first!

    But...  if the immediate need is pressing and as I you will need to re-saw.. rip and curve cut without the annoyance of going to more suited guides, then perhaps a Light Cruiser would be the best choice for you giving you moderate fire-power and more flex for changing speeds to meet the task that arises.

   If that is the case, the Grizzly 0513X you mentioned would be the better choice IMO. But in this category I found the Steel City 18" to be what I consider the best on the market in it's class. But.. don't take my word for it.. take a look at them yourself and make a comparison feature for feature. You mentioned being able to tension a blade was a strong sign. Take a look at the SC double tension springs compared to the competitors, then check the re-enforced motor and hub housings along with the upper support for the tension springs themselves. You can have extremely large springs and not have any advantage if they are not properly re-enforced in the way they are attached or the upper case is too flimsy to support both of those traits. BTW.. the SC has the best dust collection stock of any I've seen on the market regardless of price range.

   You need to decide what you are going to do with a BS and then go for whatever saw you find suitable to fit those needs with the flexibility to change directions if necessary IMO.

   And quality is indeed important regardless of what you are willing to pay for a saw. The Bridgewood PBS series is the basic same saw as you mentioned from the guys in Laguna Beach. Same manufacturer. But the Laguna Beach version it cost more... Do ceramic bearing which is the major difference warrant that?  "Why" would be a good first question to ask yourself when you have one saw basically identical to another and one is priced higher. "Why indeed"?

   Good luck with your quest, Ed.....

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt

    

    

   
1. 
   edsea | May 16, 2007 04:33pm | #8

   Wow, thanks to all of you for the time and details that you put into these responses. Your warship analogies sort of got to me Sarge, for two reasons: one I am nautically oriented -- boats are my passion, but more importantly from lots of experiences in life I know that trying to buy the product that does everything fairly well usually results in a product that does nothing really well.  Having said that, I really don't know what my main use for this bandsaw will be two or three years down the road. I have never had a bandsaw and always found a way around this.  All of my projects have been modified to fit my tools and now I have an opportunity to get some new tools so I plan to try and make some choices that will hopefully cover my needs as I expand my woodworking to a higher level.  Probably any good quality bandsaw will work for me as I will adapt to its capabilities.  And, although I do have a few small logs I want to try to saw, your point about not getting something too focused on such tasks is very valid.  I will add the SC 18 to my short list, I originally ruled out anything over 14", then 16", then 17", and now I will include 18"--- I do not have a height constraint. I do know a couple of things: I will not determine my bandsaw usage until I own one for several years so I cannot follow your advice to figure out what I am going to do with it prior to buying it; and I will not use it a lot (as in production), it just needs to be there as I find uses for it and work well.  Thanks to all of you.    Ed

    

2. 
   Hendo | May 16, 2007 05:52pm | #9

   I just wish I could find some of the Steel City stuff to look at. 

   The nearest distributor (as listed on the SC web site) is a 4 or 5 hour round-trip.  I called them, and they sound like a warehouse, not a showroom.

   SC is not unique in this regard of course, so I don't mean to single them out.

   It is just frustrating to have to buy an expensive piece of equipment sight unseen.

   -Tom H.  Ventura, CA

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | May 18, 2007 07:17am | #14

   Evening Hendo..

   Yep.. they are a new company and looking for distributors. And they won't accept just anyone as per a conversation with Scott Box (co-owner of SC.) They prefer a company that is established and has a back-ground in both selling tools and servicing them. Along with that, the company must have a history of taking care of the customer and that is not an easy find anymore.

   A good example is there is no distributor in Alabama. Several have applied but been turned down because they are just tool retailers and have little experience or have a bad reputation with truly helping a customer find a tool that is best suited for their needs.

   The Alabama market for SC is pretty strong and I actually thought about it myself. But with retirement within sight in 2 years, I fought off the urge as I have already been involved with my own company and don't want to make the commitment at this point in life.

   If you have a good company in mind that is local, push them on the idea of becoming a SC distributor for CA. and urge them to call SC to discuss it.

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt

3. 
   edsea | May 18, 2007 12:12am | #10

   Sarge, a clarification please to be sure I understand the advice you provided (which I value).  I understand your points about price differences and how or how not they seem to be justified. On your analogies to battleships, light cruisers, destroyers: I thought you included the Laguna HT 16 in the battleship space and the G0513X (17") and SC-18" in the light cruiser category which I didn't understand with the Laguna being the smaller saw.  Probably I didn't properly interpret your point on size. Do you consider the Laguna 16", Grizzly 17" and SC 18" to be in a simlar class (as to manuevering curves, resaw, etc.) or does their design make them act very different?

   Thanks,  Ed

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | May 18, 2007 06:56am | #13

   Evening Ed..

   The Laguna I was referring to is the 16 HD, their heavy-weight in a 16" class that has 16" re-saw capacity. It falls in the Italian Stallion class (battle-ship) with the MM 16.. Aggazani.. Bridgewood PBS's.. etc.

   As for their regular 16 it is not made in Italy as the HD is.  MM's smaller machine isn't made by Centauri of Italy as the larger MM 16 either and frankly, I wasn't impressed with either at the price they ask. They are good machines, but much lesser machines over-all than the Italian front line machines. I suspect they are there to fill the void for those that are not going to warrant $2 K plus for a BS and even though they carry the company banner, are not near the machine as their big brothers.

   Hopefully that clarifies the question. If not... ask more. :>)

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt

    

1. 
   edsea | May 18, 2007 06:40pm | #15

   "The Laguna I was referring to is the 16 HD, their heavy-weight in a 16" class that has 16" re-saw capacity. It falls in the Italian Stallion class (battle-ship) with the MM 16.. Aggazani.. Bridgewood PBS's.. etc. "

   Is this correct: considering maneuverability, cutting curves, etc. the Laguna 16HD falls in the "battleship" class.  The Grizzly 0513X (17") and Steel City 50250 (18") are more in the "light cruiser" class even though their wheel diameter is larger. If one was to end up with a varied workload of occassional use for a bandsaw that included some resaw and probably more general ripping and curve cutting (but wanted the capability for an occassional more challenging project), you would lean towards these "light cruisers".  I would like to make a decision based on experienced people's assessment of the bandsaws quality and capabilities and not just the price -- I am probably not going to be able to try these bandsaws and even if I could I would not know what to grade them on---after I own a bandsaw for a few years I hope to be much more knowledgable and am trying to not need to change bandsaws at that time.   Thanks again Sarge,   Ed

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | May 19, 2007 06:34am | #16

   Evening Ed...

   That is correct as to how I would classify them. The HD has 16" re-saw capacity and a 4 + HP motor. It has cast iron wheels, but not close to the mass of cast iron wheel on a MM. The Laguna and MM are basically scaled down versions of their bigger "made for industry" brothers that actually start with 24" for the small version with 36" being standard for factory.

   IMO.. the Laguna is a better dressed but watered down version of that factory 36" geared for the high end market of amateurs WW. The MM is closer to the factory 36" in mass even though less watered down for that same market.

   The Griz and SC are based on the same design, but run smaller motors and have less re-saw height. Not as robust in the guide bars.. thickness of table.. wheels.. and tension springs. They also both run the Carter style bearing instead of the ceramic or Euro guides of the two Stallion machines. And that is not necessarily bad as the Carter style are more adept at curve cutting than the Stallions.

   So as I see it.. what you got with the Stallions is fantastic re-saw capacity with the power to back it up and drop a notch in the curve cutting department with smaller blades. The SC and Griz can only handle 12" in re-saw with sufficient power to do so, but will do the curve cutting with more ease as the Carter style bearings are more suited for the task handling the smaller blades, but very capable of re-saw also with larger ones. 

   I saw very little I couldn't re-saw with a 1/2" Highland Wood-slicer blade  on a smaller BS. I run a 3/4" Wood-slicer on my current SC set-up and that's all that is required, IMO. I could probably run the 1/2" on it also, but chose to go to the 3/4" since I had the beam strength to tension it. I could run a 1" on it with it's capabilities, but I see no need what-so-ever to go there as from what I have found, it's not necessary to run that wide a blade in sizes that I throw at it.

   I have never personally had much need to re-saw over 12" with the exception of last fall when I downed a 20" sweet-gum tree in my front yard. I just split it and then took it to the BS. If I were doing that on a day to day basis, I would purchase a used 36" Tannewitz to do it with... as a 4" re-saw height gained on a Stallion with that thick a log still leaves me in left field where I would still have to split it. So............

   Good luck in the chase for the machine that fits you and your needs! We all have our views from our own shoes and needs based on what we do most.

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt