I’m going to be building some shelves in a newly-finished basement. They will be mostly for kids toys and get lots of use. They’ll be about 12 foot long and either 16 or 24 inches deep and 36 inches high. The front will be open with a bottom (held off the floor so I can put a base plate along the front), middle shelf, and counter top. The back will be attached to the wall – with no actual back – the wall will show through if you look inside the shelves.
I could use some help in deciding on the material – melanine, MDF, or what I’m currently leaning towards, birch/maple plywood that is selling for $30 at the local home store.
The first issue would be durability – would the melanine chip? Would the MDF chip, flake, and react if some juice was spilled on it?
The second issue is looks. For the top, how can I turn an 8 foot piece into 12 feet – with plywood, can I join them, sand and paint? Or will a seam always show. Or, should I try to design in some kind of break in the countertop?
Any suggestions will be welcome.
Replies
Mdf and melamine covered chip board will sag with weight on them. I would use 3/4" plywood with an edging in front. Supports should be 32" apart, fastened into studs.
You can buy the countertop made up into the length you need. You will need a ledger on the wall and support in front, some type of leg.
Another way would to build open cases for shelves and the countertop can be screwed from underneath to the case.I would build the latter if it was my home.Finish the cases with varnish, both sides of each piece and you won't have to worry about stains.
mike
Mike You can buy the countertop made up into the length you need
Mike, I was hoping to do a nice job at a reasonable cost - what material are you thinking for the countertop? The same think that would be used for a kitchen counter top? Or some kind of wood?
Plywood is stiffer than the others. At that price it's a good buy.
Twenty four inches sounds on the deep side.
Does the whole thing have to be one long, plain unit? How about styling it in thirds, a center section deeper and a few inches higher than the two flanking sections? That would solve your top problem and, I think, look better. It would be easier to make and move around your shop, too. Then screw the three sections together after they are in place and shimmed level.
You save a little money by not having a back, but a back is a big help in preventing the unit from racking. A cheap back, like ΒΌ" lauan or something with a smoother finish, even Masonite, would keep everything square.
It's much easier to sand and paint shelves before the back is put on because you don't have all the corners to deal with.
Laminate is not too hard to work with and would make a nice top for a children's area. You can do a nice edging of wood, painted to match the rest of the unit.
Edited 1/31/2004 11:26:39 PM ET by WAYNEL5
Edited 1/31/2004 11:29:00 PM ET by WAYNEL5
STCat,
I guess I would use the ply, build them as seperate units, keep the depth to a max of 16", vary the height between the 3-4 units and put a back on of 1/4" ply. I've moved 5 times, didn't plan it that way..that's life. Also, I'd want the flexibility to move the storage around to create a different layout. It might cost a bit more initially but the utility is greater.....you may want to put doors on eventually also....
The other way is to build in place with 2x4 base, 1x 3 face frame, 3/4" plywood and make it all 24" deep and put a kitchen counter top on the top. The melamine requires a special blade to keep the chips down..and the special fastners...and the heat sensitive tape is a pain...imho. The MDF has no strength and will need to be reinforced over a span..
Wow! Thanks for the great suggestions - yes, I was thinking of a way to put a break in it somewhere and making it look right - varying the height is a great idea and I lookd the idea of making the middle a little taller!
I also hear what you're saying about the depth - perhaps 16" would be more appropriate.
I was intending to build it in place and have the carpet form fitted around it, versus having it sit on top of the carpet. But maybe I should consider having the carpet put in first and having it sit on top??????? If I did this, I could add stability by attaching it to the wall studs and/or put a back on it.
Thanks again!!!!!!
I think you're better off doing the bookshelves first and carpet second. You'll have a sounder base with the shelves right on the floor.
If you wish, you can leave off the baseboard of the bookshelf until the carpet is down. That way you won't need a quarter round moulding to hide the carpet edge. That is, if the cleaner look appeals to you.
When my boys were little, they loved to play on the top shelf of that kind of thing you're envisioning. It was only about 24" off the floor, and they used it as a track for their little cars, zooming them back and forth by hand for hours and hours. Bearing this possibility in mind, you might want to have at least one section where the top shelf is low enough for a child to play comfortably.
Definitely no MDF or melamine - too weak. Birch plywood with a hardwood edge at the least.
Sand and paint it. Don't worry too much about looks. If this is for a kids' playroom it will get plenty of scratches and they'll enjoy every one of them.
Always feel compelled to offer The Sagulator when discussions of shelves come up. Here's the link:
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm
Lot's of good reference info available at Woodbin:
http://www.woodbin.com/ref/index.htm
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'd recommend building the base units out of edge banded melamine-easy to clean. Try to find a cabinet shop supplier in your area that also does retail to get the good stuff. You can glue up MDF for the top & fill the seam with bondo, and paint with a good enamel, or laminate it - they sell 3x12 sheets. Just try to keep your shelf spans <24" for 3/4", anyting greater use 1" shelves.
What's the good stuff? I see HD has bull-nosed melanine for a reasonable price - but i was getting the impression I'd be better off w/ 3/4 plywood.
It is primarily the 'level or amount' of melamine that is used and the density of the core. Be careful not to get the thermo foil type, it won't hold up as well. also, the density of the core is better on the commercial grade melamines & MDF. Personally, I wouldn't buy MDF, furnture grade plywood, or melamine at a box store. I've seen some pretty poor melamine at the box stores which wasn't much better than underlayment with melamine poorly applied. This is a commodity item for them, and they are buying the cheapest they can.
Roseburg is a decent brand I've had god success with in my area. You could check their website and see if they have any retail/wholesale yards in your area.
Your choice of materials is dependant on what look you are after and your requirements. If you are doing paint grade, you could use MDF or poplar plywood. You just need to keep in mind your shelf loading and shelf spans, there are many references available in regards to the limits and deflection. Melamine will save you finishing the shelves, and you can concentrate on the face/top. If I can have a melamine interior, this saves me the finishing time & expense. I may pay $19-21 a sheet for melamine,$16-18 for MDF, but I don't have to paint the melamine. I couldn't paint a sheet of MDF for $3 in labor and materials. Besides, its easy to clean, and if it chips you can fix the chips with seamfil. If it gets really bad, you can always reskin it with HPL(high pressure laminate). Just belt sand it to rough it up, contact it, & apply.
Edited 2/3/2004 3:52:01 PM ET by craig
I am humbled by the quality of replies to my questions. I think a good quality melamine would be great - I'll have to look into that seamfill stuff - I guess it will be between that and the plywood.
I went to the Roseburg website http://www.rfpco.com/service.htm and made a call - I got the local distributor guy's number, but interestingly the person I spoke with said one of the big retail outlets they sell through is Home Depot.
I was a little suprised at the $30 plywood panels I saw there (maple/birch - both sides finished nicely), and I also thought the melamine pieces they had were nice - including some bull-nosed pieces which would look great. I'll have to confirm if they're Roseburg or if not what they are and if it's a good product.
I'll do a search on working with melanine if I decide to go that route - and I'm pretty sure one of my mags has an article on how to work with it - so now I'm getting pretty excited about moving forward with this project. Time to put pencil to paper, and then plug in the power tools!
BTW, altough I had most of the basement done (at the behest of the significant other), I encased the pole myself - more of a project than I imagined - used cheap 1x6 pine ripped down to about 4.25" w/ plywood supports inside to glue to the pole and scrap pine on the inside corners for stability, wood filled the nots and blemishes and rounded the corners w/ a router - and a great excuse to buy some clamps - a real satisfying accomplishment for a beginner woodworker. Thanks to all, again.
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