I am making a Colonial style bed frame with head and foot board for a Nautilus Air bed.
2 1/2 sq. tapered post with 1 3/4 thick X 4 1/2 wide rails all around where the Foundation ” box springs” set inside.
This is a King Size 76 X 80- I assume the foundation and mattress will be about 17 in. thick.
I want the Foundation to set inside & bottom flush with the bottom of the rails.
This is what I am thinking about using Box Spring Fasteners they are L brackets that screw to the inside of the rails – like 3 to each side and ends.
Would this be enough support or should I go with slats?
My Queen frame only supports on the 2 sides but not sure about King Size
Thanks Ron
Who Ever Has The Biggest Pile Of Tools When You Die Wins
Replies
It depends on whether or not you want to build the most durable, longest lasting heirloom, or just another bed.
If you want serious longevity, then don't depend on a few stamped-steel brackets. Instead, use slats -- and use them in both directions on a king. And join them to the head, foot, and sides with half-dovetail (or full dovetail) ends. With this design, it is virtually impossible for the bed to sag, or for it to rack out of square.
And think about corner joints that are better than the standard hanger-type. Bed bolts add amazing strength. These, combined with the dovetail slats, will give you the most solid, non-squeaking bed you can imagine.
I have to ask- my bed project is only two projects away! Funny how I always seem to be saying that. You said:
"Instead, use slats -- and use them in both directions on a king."
Okay- I was going to use slats, but I have to admit that "both directions" has me a bit confused. If they went both length and width, well there wouldn't be a plane that would be supported by both... unless it is kind of like a torsion box?
On a king size bed, the side-to-side slats are about six feet long. And assuming that you'll be using a box spring set (or some other "foundation"), that will likely consist of two twin-size box springs.
So at the middle of the bed, there is this built-in flex point, between the two halves of the foundation.
Now, I don't know if there is such a thing as a span chart for bed slats. But I do know that if I stand in the middle of a couple of six-foot long 1X3's, there gonna sag a decent bunch. They might even break. Add my wife, and breaking is inevitable.
On the other hand, if those side-to-side slats are supported by a couple of head-to-foot slats, then there will be way less tendency to sag or break. The load will be distributed over more connection points, and over more structure.
So, put a "layer" of slats going from the head to the foot, and above it put the normal layer from side to side. The "normal slats being supported by the others.
Also note that, even with both layers, there is some possibility that the head/footboards, and the side rails, might bow when loaded. And that is why bolting the slats, or dovetailing them, can be a good idea.
Like I said in my original reply -- none of these issues are tremendously relevant if you are making a bed to last for 15 - 20 years. Slats can handle the load for that long. But if you might possibly dream of great-great-grandchildren being concieved in the bed.......then think twice.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
You are right about the slats but think all I need is side to side.
The Foundation is similar to a water bed foundation " looks like side and end rails 3/4 X 8 1/2 tall with 3/4 x 6 on 16 in. centers with brackets that attach them to the sides flush with top of rails - toped off with 1/2 planks running the length" I'm sure its all particle board .
All the load would be on the edges- I think I will go with the slats side to side and screw them into the ledge . Also think I will use 6 in. wide plywood at the head slat and foot slat screwed down at the ends and outside edges to hold all square and straight.
I have another ?
The head Board is about 16 wide Foot Board is about 9 in. wide I will Tenon them into the posts - How much play should I leave on the Tenons Made from Hard Maple -see pic.
Who Ever Has The Biggest Pile Of Tools When You Die Wins
Edited 9/16/2003 9:19:19 PM ET by Ron
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/shrinkulator.htm
The link above should give you anything you need concerning cross-grain expansion. It's an on-line calculator of wood shrinkage/swelling. Also, the home page of Wodbin has a number of other woodworking calculators.
And if you plan to screw the slats to the sideboards, that will be as sturdy as dovetailing them.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
AH!
I think I have what you are talking about! Yeah, I'm with you on making a bed that will out last me by a good bit. Not really in a hurry to make anything else at this point in life. :)
Anyway if you could have a look at this picture I've included to see if I have the idea right. It took about 3 minutes to make, so if you have changes to the idea I would really like to change it and have you take another look see if that is alright? The only thing I was wondering about was the yellow slats... maybe it would be better if they were vertical instead.
Anyway thanks for your help!
The slat layout design in your picture is precisely what I had in mind. No, the yellow slats should not run head-to-foot.
The head-to-foot "under-slats" supports, if made properly, will not need the legs that you show in the pic. Instead of having legs that will scratch your hardwood floor (or drag on the carpet and break), just make these supports out of 6/4 straight grained wood. And three of these is plenty, since the spacing will be somewhere less than 24". All of these should be solidly attached (screws or joinery) to the head and foot.
The side-to-side slats can then be traditional 1X3 pine. Your picture shows a lot of them -- not a bad thing, but it is overkill. And note that some of the side-to-side slats should be attached (screws again) to the sideboards. Attacheing all would not be bad -- overkill again. Attach enough of them so that bowing becomes virtually impossible.
Note that you should not cut any of the slats to size until the head, foot, and sides are completely done. Assemble the visible pieces first, then measure for the slats. That way there is no chance that a slat will push the bed apart if it's cut too long. (You want the slats to help pull it together, not push it apart.)
And one final suggestion -- have fun, take your time, and post a picture when you're finished.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
I wouldn't trust hangers either. I use angle iron to support slats which get screwed to the iron from below so they don't slide. Though I do like YesMa'am's dovetail idea. I also agree with YesMa'am about the corners I use bolts in the space between split mortise and tennons. I hide the bolts in pockets on the rails and use threaded inserts into the posts to bolt into. I just don't like the look of the through bolts. This connection is the difference between a rock-solid no squeak bed and what is sold commercially.
Edited 9/16/2003 11:08:56 AM ET by BrianF
Ron,
I may have missed something in your description so I appologize if I did. You said a King size bed and also discussed the Nautilus Air bed which I am not familar with, however, I have never seen a king sized box spring ...much too big and unweildly to handle..so everyone uses two box springs and that needs to be supported in the middle. To have the hangers flush with the bottom of the rails means the center beam would hang below the side beams. I think you want the box springs to lay on top of the center beam with no space between the box springs.
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