Replies

1. 
   DougF | Dec 14, 2004 05:34pm | #1

   Chad,

   From my somewhat local specialty nut/bolt/screw store (not the box stores), I purchase case-hardened 3/8 x 6.5" bolts and nuts for $1.00 each compared to the $6.00 each that most WW suppliers quote.  The only difference is that the case-hardened are stronger and you use a regular socket wrench rather than a special tool that you will also have to purchase for some bed bolts.  If you want the traditional bolts, Rockler, Woodcraft and Woodworker Supply offer these and related products.

   One observation I might offer: 2" is extremely thick for the side boards unless you are after a specific design "look".  Generally, side boards are in the 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" range, offering more than sufficient strength with minimal deflection without creating too large of a "shelf" appearance next to the mattress.  The more narrow side boards will also permit the bed coverings to drape more naturally.

   Doug

1. 
   cft353 | Dec 14, 2004 08:09pm | #2

   "One observation I might offer: 2" is extremely thick for the side boards unless you are after a specific design "look".  Generally, side boards are in the 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" range, offering more than sufficient strength with minimal deflection without creating too large of a "shelf" appearance next to the mattress.  The more narrow side boards will also permit the bed coverings to drape more naturally."

   Doug, thanks for the info about hardware, it's the type that appeals to my thrifty Scots-Yankee soul!

   About the rails: I'm using 4x4 posts because I don't want the s.o.b. to wobble. Will the 5/4 side rails not look too puny next to them, do you think? I don't believe it would hurt my feelings not to have to chop 2" wide mortises...

1. 
   DougF | Dec 14, 2004 08:52pm | #3

   Chad,

   Wobble is more a function of the fit.  I assure you that a proper 1 1/8" x 6" M&T'ed side board using one or two bolts per tenon will make that bed rock-solid.  You might want to reference Jeff Miller's bed book for M&T options and dimensions. 

   A bed I recently completed use tenons that measured 5/8W x 5"H and 3/4"D using single 6.5" bolds and you can not force any play between the head and foot boards and the side rails.  I would recommend that you use washers and lock washers or nuts with nylon inserts in the D shaped nut pocket hole to prevent loosening which will allow the bed to wobble and break-down the M & T fit.

   Doug

2. 
   BrianF | Dec 14, 2004 11:03pm | #5

   These are 6" wide and 7/8" thick rails in 6x6 posts. I am sure that you 4x4 post and 5/4 rails would look fine. I use a m&t joint as well. It's a split tennon and draw it up with bolts and brass threaded inserts. I know that you can find them at rockler.com.

   
1. 
   cft353 | Dec 16, 2004 02:17am | #6

   Nice looking bed, Brian!

   I found brass threaded inserts and case-hardened bolts at my local hardware store so I'm in "bidness". I appreciate all the info!

1. 
   DougF | Dec 16, 2004 05:58pm | #7

   Chad,

   My experience with beds is limited to several beds and cribs but I have used threaded inserts on many projects and I question their holding power over the long- haul.  They are much easier to use but there is a tremendous "working" force among the bed parts and bolt assembly and I would be reluctant to trust this to a thin insert.  I'm curious if others have any reaction to this.

   Doug

2. 
   BrianF | Dec 17, 2004 12:15am | #8

   I've built about a dozen beds or so using brass threaded inserts and 3/8" bolts. The longest in service is my own, about 10 years, with no problem. That one I used 3/8" steel rod for dowels, I now use split tennons on the side rails and draw them up with the bolt and insert. Both my kids beds use this and they have seen plenty of jumping and rough-housing and are still as solid as the day I built them (5 and 8 yrs). I have thought of using t-nuts on the hollow posts, but have not done it yet. It sure has to be more durable than those mortice in hooks that you can buy, and see on most commercial made beds with wood side rails.Brian

   Edited 12/16/2004 4:17 pm ET by BrianF

3. 
   DougF | Dec 17, 2004 01:11am | #9

   Brian,

   Thanks for the information.  I guess the pessimist in me assumes the worse and nuts are pretty bullet-proof.  But, what works, works and the inserts are sure faster than drillling and chiseling the nut pockets.  Do you make the insert flush with the end or do you sink it?

   Doug

4. 
   BrianF | Dec 17, 2004 07:23am | #11

   Doug,
   I set them in about 1/8". I guess just like you worry about the insert I worry about the nut spinning in the pocket. The only real good solution is to use a through bolt but I just can't get over the whole hideous cover plate thing. I may experiment with the nut in a pocket on my next bed.Brian

5. 
   DougF | Dec 17, 2004 05:31pm | #13

   Brian,

   I cut the pocket for the nut in the side board to the same size as the nut so it can not spin and it also makes it much harder to come loose.  I like the plate covers for the through-bolts but I can also see where this could be distracting for some styles of beds.  Thanks for sharing your expereince.

   Doug

6. 
   cft353 | Dec 17, 2004 02:25am | #10

   Fortunately (or unfortunately) I'm single and unattached so the only "rough-housing" this bed faces is me turning over or the dog jumping up. I think the brass inserts will take the strain lol...

7. 
   BrianF | Dec 17, 2004 07:26am | #12

   Chad,
   I know the feeling. After 14 yrs of marriage and two kids one of our dogs has taken up residence in the middle of the bed and neither my wife or I has the energy to move him!Good luck with the bed and post some pics when you finish.Brian

8. 
   cft353 | Dec 17, 2004 10:46pm | #17

   Brian,

   Actually I invite my dog up in the bed; it gives the feeling of another warm body in the bed without the agita of a relationship (thank God I'm not bitter, that's the important thing...).

   Fingrs, I couldn't open that .pdf. Any chance you'd email it to me at [email protected]? Thanks!

2. 
   Len | Dec 14, 2004 09:10pm | #4

   Chad,

   Lee Valley carries a nice selection.

   http://www.leevalley.com

   Enjoy.

   Hi, I'm Len and I'm a Toolaholic...
3. 
   Fingrs | Dec 17, 2004 06:04pm | #14

   Hi, Chad.  I built a king-size bed out of cherry earlier this year and used cam-bolt hardware I got from Rockler.  It works incredibly well, and hasn't budged.  See the attached spec sheet.  It will work fine in your design.

   Rather that using dowels to keep the side boards vertically aligned, I created a shallow mortise and short tenon.  I hate dowels. 

   Let us know how it turns out.

    

   
1. 
   BrianF | Dec 17, 2004 08:23pm | #15

   I like that idea. Like you I use the m&t on the rails but route out a pocket in the side rail to tighten the bolt that runs into an insert in the post. This may be a simpler way to do the same thing. I'm building one after the new year for a friend where I can watch it over time and I'll give it a try.Thanks for the suggestion! Brian

1. 
   Fingrs | Dec 17, 2004 09:57pm | #16

   Your way is a little less expensive and would work fine.  The cam thingy makes assemby and disassembly very easy...so long as you can find the right allen wrench!