I am looking to do a commission on a bed, something I haven’t made before and the client is interested in using some walnut from a parents farm. They want turned legs on a bed with 16″ of clearance under the bed rails.
The issue I am wondering about is strength and rigidity, the walnut is only 3 1/2 thick and that seems like a fairly tall span. There will be a headboard so that will add rigidity at that end but I am not sure yet if they want a footboard. So, anyone got some experienced advice? I could laminate thicker legs but I am pretty sure they want “solid wood” and any gluing or laminating will sound cheap/wrong to them.
Thanks in advance!
Michael
Replies
I could laminate thicker legs but I am pretty sure they want "solid wood" and any gluing or laminating will sound cheap/wrong to them.
??
I hear you but there is nothing wrong with laminations.. Ever see QS legs withe QS showing on all sides? Wonder how those craftsmen did that!
Maybe a little education for them would help.. But then again 'you know people'....
A leg which is 3 1/2" square in cross section will have plenty of strength to handle the bed's weight, and plenty of meat to handle the joinery with the bed rails. You mention "span", by which I think you mean the horizontal distance from leg to leg. That really has little effect on the legs themselves. To deal with a long span, you need height in the horizontal elements -- the bed rails, the foot board, and the head board.
It isnt' the weight of the bed, or even the occupants I am worried about. It is when two people are doing something other than sleeping or reading in bed that might create significant sideloads on the legs. Somewhere I have Taunton's book on beds, I am going to go through that but there is so much expertise here that I thought I would check in first.
With over 3" legs you have plenty of meat to house substantial tenons. The legs and rails can be held together with traditional bed bolts, whether they are visible on the outside, or only on the inside. If the rails have some thickness, the compression of the shoulders of the tenon on the leg gives a very solid joint. Its not the thickness of the legs that is any problem, but the thickness of the rails that prevents any side racking.
Michael,
Are people missing your question?....3.5" thick legs with 3.5" rails (as opposed to 6-7" rails) ergo the racking issue?
BG, I must admit that I wasn't sure what the question was. I couldn't make out if the question related to the rails or the legs.
Anyway, in the bed I put an image of up the rails are approximately 83-1/2" long X 6-1/4" X ~7/8". The mattress sits on slats spanning the bed width which rest on bearers (cleats) running around the inner perimeter that are glued and screwed with their top edge roughly 3" down from the top edge of the side rails. The bearers are about 1" square and the slats are about 4" wide by 3/4" thick.
The rails are located into the legs with Häfele Berliner hardware. That's the hardware of a slotted metal plate morticed and screwed into the leg with a matched hooked plate at each end of the rail.
It's as steady as a rock, easily disassembled and transported--- and there's room for the harmless one eyed Australian trouser snake to make a home underneath it all, ha, ha---- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 11/6/2005 11:09 am by SgianDubh
Like all snakes, ours bite when provoked, Richard. Under the bed sounds like a painful place to be bitten.
Does Scotland have the species, or is it a wee bit too cold for them?
Cheers,
eddie
It's too cold for them generally eddie, but we have so many Ockers here nowadays escaping their penal home that they seem to bring them in as pets which then escape to terrorise the local women folk. Those ladies don't realise that they're really quite small and harmless until they see one under a magnifying glass. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I think I'm snookered here - no matter where I go I've lost.
Cheers,
LMAO!
Michael,
3 1/2" square legs is more than large enough. I think someone already said that the width of the bed rails is a more important factor - I would agree. A 6"-8" width would be good. Short "stub" tenons on the ends of the rails that fit into shallow corresponding mortises in the legs account for sheer weight, bed bolts hold everything together.
16" of clearance under the rails seems like way too much. I would mock- up that arrangement and show the client so they understand what 16" looks like. If not, you could sell them on the idea of commisioning a matching ladder that they'll need to get into bed.
-Paul
I can't agree with you on the height Paul. There are people that like a tall bed and others that prefer something lower slung.
Here's a picture of one of a pair of beds I made. The height under the rails is about 13" and to the top of the mattress is about 29". I use this bed and its height would have been higher still but my wife preferred this height.
We are both the type that prefers to climb up into bed and climb down to get out, and with a 33- 34" inside leg the top of the mattress is more than comfortablefor me. Slainte.
View Image Richard Jones Furniture
I hope you aren't the type that tend to fall out of bed.
tinkerer2,
Sgian is much more concerned with hurting his back while serving his wife breakfast in bed...the height is wonderful for that.
...and then there is the lousy aussie trouser snake...doubt you need much clearance for that....he's covered his bases pretty well...
Edited 11/6/2005 7:46 am ET by BG
Richard,
Beautiful work! Yeah, it's probably more of a preference issue. I prefer to "drop" into bed rather than climb. Have you noticed how thick matresses and box springs have gotten? Used to figure on about 15" of bedding, now 24" is probably more like it.
-Paul
I would laminate the legs, just to keep them straight in the years to come. 4 quartersawn faces sounds good to me too.
As far as convincing a customer on the "cheap or wrong" of the situation, you might need to resort to a bit of education salesmanship here.
Four quartersawn faces makes sense with oak, to reveal the fleck figure and it was a traditional stickley technique. But I don't think in makes a lot of sense for walnut. Solid walnut is pretty stable so I wouldn't laminate.
Walnut 3 1/2" square seems plenty beefy to hold rails adequate to the job. I recently completed a pencil post bed with legs about that size. I used rails about 2 3/4" thick, and 4" deep, with traditional bed bolts holding it all together. The large surface on the shoulders of the stub tenons means it really has the ability to tighten up and be very solid.
Mine is king size--with a floating headboard and it is rock solid. I used the thick rails after the fashion of early beds, although I don't really need the beef in that direction. The bottom of the mattress rests on the side rails, not inside of them. (There are slats that are almost flush with the top of the rails for the rest of the support, along with a center rail.
I will yield to your expertise on the walnut. I have never used walnut 7ft long and 4 x 4, so I would tend to get over cautious on this occasion.
If the guy gets his lumber from his customer's own tree, and gets it in air dried condition, they will have some gorgeous color that is only going to get rarer as time goes by.
The last thing I made of airdried walnut was a dovetailed plate rack of faux Shaker design, with the vertical members of the walnut and the horizontals of ambrosia maple. The cream colors in those two just seemed to complement each other so well that I just had to try it to see how it looked.
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