Hopefully Im not repeating an oft-asked question, but I’m unable to find a sufficiently clear answer.
I plan to build a queen size bed, and wonder if 4/4 cherry at 8″ across will be sufficient for the side rails? Or, should I use 6/4 or even 8/4?
Thanks
Replies
4/4 stock is not sufficient enough for strength. I use a finished thickness of 1 1/2 " for all my bed rails, and chair rail stock, as well. Start with 8/4, flatten one side, and thickness to your desired thickness. Then, you'll have enough stock thickness to rabitt a ledge for the mattress supports. I actually dovetail the cross supports into the side rails, so that they can't move around. It also makes the bed much more ridgid.
Jeff
Thanks, that sounds completely reasonable! I really like the idea of dovetailing the matress supports into the side... an 82" sliding dovetail sounds very impressive.
ek
You misunderstood. Not a sliding dovetail, but an individual dovetail for each flat slat. It takes a little extra work, but that's what my customers are paying for, and it locks the slat in place, and won't let it slide out.
Jeff
Jeff- how are things? When you say 'cross supports', are you using slats or a panel? What size of stock do you use for the supports? What kind of connection do you use at the headboard/side junction- the usual kind from Woodcraft or Rockler?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Hey, Jim
Things are good. How about you?
I use the hardware from Rockler for rail to headboard/footboard connections. Simple to use and install, and I like simple. Never had one fail, and the oldest bed in my house is 14 years old, King size.
The slats I use are 4.5" wide by the width of the bed, depending what size bed. I use whatever hardwood I have lots of, usually poplar or oak. You know how I feel about oak!?! For king size beds, I always have a center support for the slat that goes to the floor, otherwise it'll sag for sure. On my king size bed, I used white oak for the extra strength and ridgidity.
Jeff
ek,
While 3/4" x8" cherry will probably be barely strong enough to resist the strain put on it by the weight of the mattress and occupants, it will be a little too thin for looks, in my opinion. My preference would be for 5/4" or 6/4 stock, if you want a "tall" side rail. Also, stock that thin will have a tendency to wiggle sideways in the middle, away from the mattress. So you will want to glue and screw a ledger strip along the bottom edge of the rail for stiffness, and to support the slats, if you use them, and use some means (screws, dowels, dovetails) to attach at least the center slat at both ends to keep the rails from spreading. If you use the "L" shaped bed irons, I'd use 3 pairs, and lay 2 1/2" channel iron across them (side to side), and I'd attach the middle one with bolts to the middle set of irons.
For a traditional poster bed, I normally use 4x4 stock of the same species as the bed for the rails. Many makers use 2x4 stock for the rails, often of tulip poplar (for side rails), as they are normally covered by the coverlet. These narrow and thick rails are best tenoned and bolted, to the posts
Wider rails, from thinner stock weren't commonly used til the Victorian era, when the fashion called for the rails to be quite wide, and flared at the ends, where they "flowed" into the head and footboard. Wider rails work well with the hook type rail attachment, as they offer somewhat more resistance to racking forces than a narrower rail.
Regards,
Ray Pine
E ,
Part of your answer will be dictated by the type of hardware you will use to attach the side rails to the rest of the bed posts or foot and headboard .
I have done a lot of restoration work and typically 7/8" - 1" was commonly used .
good luck dusty
I had planned to use hook rails rather than bed bolts, for no other reason than my supposition that it will be easier to cut shallower mortises.
When I built my daughters bed, I laminated two 3/4 (finished) boards together to get 1 1/2 total and it seems plenty rigid. 3/4 rails would have bothered me. I would attach the rails to the posts with a bolted M&T. It is unbelievable how rigid the bed is with this setup. Search this forum for suggestions on how to cut the deep mortise if you are having trouble.<!----><!----><!---->
Although you can't see the side rails of this (US) Queen size bed the rails are finished sizes of 7/8" X 6-1/4" X 84" long. They lock into the headboard with Häfele Berliner hardware. Along the length of the inside face of the side rails a bearer 1-1/4" square is glued and screwed. There is also a central poplar tie beam 1-1/2" X 3-1/4" spanning from headboard to footboard. This arrangement supports a series of cross slats of ex 1" X 4" poplar.
The mattress sits directly on the slats. The middle slat has a screw driven through each end into the long horizontal bearer on the inside face of the rail.
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I guess I disagree with all the contributors that have urged you to go fatter and wider with your bed rails. The arrangement I've just described is significantly overbuilt-- and I like to use my bed for other things than just putting out ZZZZ's. Horizontal jogging is fun too, ha, ha.
Richard Jones Furniture
Thanks for the response. Seems to me that there are in fact two independent questions when determining the ideal dimension of the side rails of the bed; aesthetic and engineering.The aesthetic question is ultimately one of personal taste.The engineering question is what interests me, not least because it greatly determines the woods costs of the project. A Jeff Miller specifies that "side rails are typically 5" to 8" wide and 1" to 1 3/4 thick. The combined width and thickness should be enough to prevent the rail from sagging under load" Well, thats nice, but it doesn't really answer the engineering problem, it just defines it. I think the problem should be further defined. There is the problem of ensuring an adequately large joining surface against the legs, such that the joint between rail and leg is not compromised by load. There is also the problem of the rails deflection under load. More precisely, how much center the rail twists from true under load. What we really need is a chart or an equation that would provide width and thickness dimension to satisfactorily resist these loads depending on the following variables: length, load, and wood species. Also important is the cleat.The pencil post bed plans on this site specify 2 1/4 x 3 1/2 rails. Im considering 7/8" by 8" rails. When using rails only 3 1/2" tall, then thick rails makes sense to me. But Im thinking of rails more than twice as tall. I cant help but think that 8/4 and 6/4 stock is overbuilt considering a 8" height.
I think you're trying to overthink and over-analyse the problem ekrafsur.
Two useful rules of thumb are useful when it comes to wooden furniture design.
1. If it looks strong enough-- it probably is.
2. If it looks too flimsy-- it'll probably fail.
That's it. The bed I put up pictures of is greatly over-engineered. If it was any more substantial it would look too clunky for what I was trying to achieve in response to the design brief I was set. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Ah yes, but your judgement no doubt comes from career's worth of emperical knowledge - me, Im just a-learnin'.But I really appreciate the two different perspectives - and methods of providing matress support.Thanks, everyone.
Sounds like you got the info you need. Anyway, I built a kingsize bed based on plans published by Simon Watts in, "Building a Houseful of Furniture", Taunton Press, 1983. The side rails in his plan were 6 1/2" x 1 1/8". 1 3/8" x 5 1/4" ledgers were screwed to the inside of the side rails and head & foot rails. 3 cross pieces of the same dimension are half-lapped (?) into the side ledgers. 3/4" pine boards go over these. Still works after 20 some years. I just need a new mattress.
Good luck!
RJ
The reason why I recommended the 8/4 stock rough, 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" finished thickness, is because after I rabbitt the support ledge, I don't have to add any additional load bearing strip for the cross supports. 1" thickness shows at the top of the rail, and 3/4" is more than sufficient for width of shelf for supports. I'm just eliminating the extra step of the load bearing ledge that you referred to.
Jeff
It's swings and roundabouts isn't it Jeff? You have to buy extra thick wood and take time to make the rebate. I buy less wood, machine up an extra piece and glue and screw it on. I'd guess it comes to about the same thing overall in cost. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Agreed. I guess I really don't worry about saving a little hardwood lumber, as I work with logs I've milled myself, almost exclusively, so the cost factor is not a big issue. Not valid with most here, though.
Jeff
Richard,
While I'm happy that your experience with 4/4 stock for bedrails has been positive, I have to say that I've had more than one of these in my shop for repair. They usually are split from one end towards the other, I guess as a result of a sudden shock, maybe old Uncle Elmer just unlocking his kness and plopping down on the edge of the bed, or Fiona starting her horizontal acrobatics with a flying leap. As long as the grain is pretty straight all may be well, but a piece of straight-grained stock as long as a queen sized bedrail is sometimes hard to find. Safest to use thicker 5/4 or 6/4 stuff, and bevel the top edge back to 3/4 if you want the lighter appearance. But that's just me. Of course your mileage, as they say, may vary. Richard, how big an ole boy are you? Or is ewe pretty small? :0))
Regards,
Ray
No doubt I rammed 1-1/4" (5/4) stock through the machines to get a finished thickness of 7/8" Ray. I might have paid tuppence or so extra for the slightly thicker stock.
I'll have to sheepishly admit to being only about 12-1/4 stone, or something like 172 lbs. in American dollars.
You're not going to pull the wool over my eyes with tales of a giant flying Dolly getting it on with Uncle Elmer, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
I suppose feeling sheepish is always better than being under the wether. Ok I admit, that was baaad, but you used all the good puns. Really gets my goat, when that happens. Not getting in the first wool joke is shear envy on my part, of course. Well I've "railed" on enough with off topic attempts at humor. Bedder stop now...
Cheers,
Ray
I use between 7/8" and 1" Cherry. But then I know what I am doing.
If you do engineering, you will do the wrong engineering.
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