Replies

1. 
   BG | Jan 11, 2003 07:08pm | #1

   Fish,

   Welcome !  Most of the books I have are best described as reference books.  That way when starting a project I can investigate the various options, ratios, etc.  There not particularly good how to books except in general terms.  Many of Taunton's books fall into this catagory (IMO). 

   For 'how to' and project plans I am hitting my local library first. I got a book on wood and colonial furniture from the library.  Also, they have some books on table saw jigs, bandsaws, etc. Obiviously, it really depends on what your library carries.   

   After I go through the freebies I'll decide what to actually add to the bookshelf.  A book on handplanes comes to mind.  There is a great many on line things also.  Here is a great sight on woodturning  that Ron61 gave me last night.  good luck http://www.a1studio.freeserve.co.uk/wtintro/learn/turnintro.html

1. 
   fish4food | Jan 11, 2003 07:17pm | #2

   BG:  Thanks for the info & tip.  Never thought of the public library!

1. 
   Petey | Jan 11, 2003 08:07pm | #3

   Mr. Food. I remember reading this years ago in a finewoodwrking mag "want plans? Send away to yourself. how highis a box? how wide must it be? what depth must it allow?   As high as an eye.  As wide as a thigh.  As deep as the cut of a plow. Send away for plans if you must, but aren't you better off sending away to yourself for better ones? No one to my knowledge at least, has ever said, "My what beautiful plans you bought"...( the condensed version ) As far as books, the Tage Frid series , I think, are still the best. He teaches you how to do it by hand and then by machine. A great place to start.   good luck   Petey

                                

2. 
   davamoore | Jan 12, 2003 12:40am | #4

   Taunton publishes a book called "Bookcases" by Niall Barrett that carries a number of good-looking plans, at all skill levels.

   I agree with the others to a point, that it's nice to come up with your own designs -- but I would suggest you shouldn't put too much pressure on yourself to do so at the beginning of your woodworking career.  To do so is only to invite frustration; your joints won't close tightly and you won't know why, your finish won't come out smooth and you won't know why, your bookcase will look clunky or spindly and you won't know why.

   It's a rare and usually ineffective "Basic Woodworking" class or instructor that tells you to go design something yourself and then find a way to build it.  Rather, the course, instructor or book will combine a plan to work from with an explanation of the "whys" and "hows" (e.g., why to choose certain joint or construction methods to account for wood expansion/contraction, why to choose a certain angle on a dovetail, etc., etc.)  Old-style apprenticeships usually required the students/employees to master and understand the basics before they took on major commissions.

   Again, part of the fun of woodworking is executing your own plans.  ANd while learning the fundamentals you should also exercise your design sensibilities, by studying, sketching, looking around -- and even trying your hand at a few pieces.  But it won't all happen in one day.  Build the plane first; then fly.

   (BTW, the book I mention above is one of those books that offers plans + instruction, which is why I recommend it.)

   Have fun,

   David

   Look, I made a hat -- Where there never was a hat!

1. 
   fish4food | Jan 14, 2003 12:48am | #10

   Thanks for the informatrion & suggestions.  I'll give it a try!

3. 
   efarmer4 | Jan 12, 2003 06:01am | #5

   Look at Woodsmith magazine: http://www.woodsmith.com They lead you through things step by step, and some of their designs aren't bad. They cover some of the "gotta" issues that seem to crop up. Exposes you to some of the different ways to do things- that you might not think of. Also they often offer a minor design change -like a different wood or solid doors vs glass doors- and show it finished both ways so you can really see how it would look either way. That gets you thinking what if I changed this or that? Later on you'll be able to think "oh, I'd do that but in cherry with glass doors" and picture it in your mind. Look at the back issue index on the site, it has a lot more choices than the "Plans Now" part. Buy the back issue on the plan you want, rather then the more expensive "Plans Now" print out, the back issues have other things in them that may of interest, and are cheaper. Some of the jigs from Shopsmith are petty good starting points, with good details. I don't think you'll need to stick to their designs forever, but it is a good starting point. Edward

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/11/2003 11:43:12 PM ET by EF

1. 
   fish4food | Jan 14, 2003 12:50am | #11

   Thanks for the information & suggestion. I'll give it a try!

4. 
   forestgirl | Jan 12, 2003 08:38am | #6

   Taunton Press publishes a book by Niall Barrett called Bookcases.  It has plans for 11 bookcases, the first chapter covers "Bookcase-building basics" including different types of joinery, foot and base styles, shelf strength and strengthening techniques.

   The plans run for a "simple short bookcase" to a "simple tall bookcase" to various levels of complexity including a trapezoidal BC and several others.

   You can get this on-line here at Taunton books, on-line at other places, or (hit-and-miss) at a local Barnes and Noble or other such large bookstore.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   fish4food | Jan 14, 2003 12:51am | #12

   Thanks for the information & suggestion.  I'll give it a try!

5. 
   lenshorey | Jan 12, 2003 11:54pm | #7

   Hi, Two books come to mind. " Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking" ( two vulumes in one) published by The Taunton Press. " The Technique of Furniture Making " by Ernest Joyce ( revised by Alan Peters) published by Batsfords.

                              Regards Len

1. 
   davamoore | Jan 13, 2003 06:48pm | #8

   Just a quick correction:  It's "Encyclopedia of Furniture Making" by Ernest Joyce (rev. by Alan Peters).

   Both the Joyce and Frid books are great, fundamental elements of a good woodworking library (there are others, but do a search on Knots; that subject has been covered a dozen times).

   DavidLook, I made a hat -- Where there never was a hat!

1. 
   lenshorey | Jan 13, 2003 11:23pm | #9

   Hello David, Good to hear from you. Perhaps you are refering to another Joyce publication? I have checked my copy and it is " The Technique of Furniture Making" A Batsford book, first published 1970  ISBN 07134 4470 X - it has been called the bible for all woodworkers. What do you think?

                                          Regards Len

2. 
   fish4food | Jan 14, 2003 12:52am | #13

   Thanks for the information & suggestion. I'll give it a try!

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 14, 2003 04:27am | #14

   You can say that again f4f, and again, and again, ha, ha. Bit of a st-st- stutter there!

   In the UK it's called "The Technique of Furniture Making,' and in the US it's sold as The Dictionary of Furniture Making," but it's the same book authored by Ernest Joyce-- ISBN 0 8069 7142 8 in paperback. It was updated in the late '80's by a highly respected designer/craftsmen, Alan Peters. 

   My ownership of this dense tome is one of the reasons why I have a pitiful collection of books on furniture making techniques-- 20" of shelf space. It is euphemistically known as 'The Bible' in the UK.

   The only other book that matches, and perhaps even surpasses it for dense reading, in depth knowledge and information is Modern Practical Joinery by George Ellis, written in about 1901, ISBN 0 85442 039 8. Own, read, and understand the techniques discussed in these two books, and just about every other book on the subject printed since then seems a bit light. (You can tell that I'm completely immune to the influences of Messrs. Krenov and Maloof, ha, ha.) A new woodworker might find it best to lead up to these definitive tomes via the lighter readings of more recent authors.

   Both Joyce and Ellis are weak on polishing techniques though, and one of the contemporary authors on this subject would be a good addition to the library. Slainte. 

   Some stuff I've made.

   Edited 1/13/2003 8:32:10 PM ET by Sgian Dubh

1. 
   davamoore | Jan 14, 2003 06:13pm | #16

   Thanks for the explanation, Sgian... when I read Len's note that his copy of Joyce's book had a different title than mine, I thought that crossing the pond might have had something to do with it, but you answered definitively before I could speculate.

   I agree with your general assessment of "old" vs. "new" books (my words, not yours), in particular the density of the information they offer.  If you have the time and the inclination (and the willingness to translate terms; e.g. "rabbet" = "rebate"), diving into the older reference books will give a reader an extremely comprehensive education.  If your time and interest are more limited, many of the later books can provide solid information in language that's sometimes more easily understood by the modern ear.

   By the way, has anyone ever published a list of American-British equivalents for English woodworking terms, here on Knots?  It might be helpful.  (Reading "Furniture & Cabinetmaking" has been quite an education in language alone!)

   DavidLook, I made a hat -- Where there never was a hat!

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 15, 2003 06:55pm | #19

   There certainly are linguistic differences between the British and the Americans, David, but usually it's not too hard to make the 'translation'. For myself, even though I currently live in the US, I continue to use British spelling and terminology when discussing woodworking subjects in the written form, such as here, although I'll sometimes make translations in brackets, e.g., overhand surface planer = (US jointer) and hessian (US burlap) and even 400 mm (~16") ha, ha. I grew up with British spelling, and I'm sticking to it in preference to using some kind of bastardised mid-Atlantic spelling and terminology.

   Working practices are different too. Europeans for instance rarely use dado blades, except sometimes in a radial arm saw, particularly in what we call the table or bench saw, of which the closest equivalent is the US cabinet saw-- so named because of the cabinet that is the base, not for the fact that they are often used in the cabinet making process. Short set rip fences are the standard practice in Europe for instance, which is a completely different philosophy to the US where the long rip fence is king. I loathe long rip fences, by the way. 

   I still work like an European, don't own a dado blade, never found a use for one, and I can't see me ever changing my European style of woodworking to the US style-- it just doesn't suit me, and the US style of woodworking goes against all my training. Still, it really doesn't matter what style of woodworking you do so long as you do it safely, and the results are good.

   As to the books I suggested. They are certainly dense and packed full of information. They are so dense sometimes that it might be a little difficult for someone new to the subject to extract the information. My supposition is that they were written for working cabinetmakers and traditional apprentices where the emphasis was on getting as much information into a compact space rather than reader friendly pretty pictures, big type, friendly graphics, and verbal flim-flam. But the information is certainly there if you're willing to dig around for it. Slainte.WebSiteThingie

2. 
   AlanTurner | Jan 14, 2003 07:54pm | #17

   Based on your comments, I just ordered a cc from Amazon. Softcover @ 17 or so. Perhaps it will answer my wedged mortise and tenon question, which garnered no responses.

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 15, 2003 07:03pm | #20

   I'm sure it'll answer that question s4s, and more. I don't remember seeing your question, otherwise I might have provided an answer of some sort. On the other hand, like everyone else, I have only so much time to waste in a day piddling about in forums, and I ignore a lot of topics that I don't want to get involved in.

   I don't think you'll regret owning Joyce, but as I said in my reply to Davamore above, it is dense reading. Contemporary authors are often more readily reader friendly and accessible, so it would be a good idea to build up a library of different authors if this is your primary method of getting information. I can't offer any suggestions because I haven't really read any of the modern authors offerings. I'll let those that have read such books make suggestions, as they already have done. Slainte.WebSiteThingie

2. 
   AlanTurner | Jan 15, 2003 07:19pm | #21

   Here is the thread for the question http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=9867.1

   I have read many of the "modern" authors and am looking forward to reading Joyce, updated by Peters. I think I will find the density not to be off-putting. Thnaks for the cite.

3. 
   fish4food | Jan 17, 2003 04:59am | #23

   Thanks for the info. I will definitely check them both out.

6. 
   namdiel | Jan 14, 2003 08:49am | #15

   View Image

   This book has a very nice bookshelf in it that should be within a a newby's ability.  I have built a number of them and and they are quite attractive.  Some people want them stained and not painted.  I like to use oak plywood for all but the face frame and crown molding and prefer to stain instead of the painting that Norm does in the book. It's whatever you want.  As your make more complex projects keep in mind that you have all of the freedom in the world to modify any plans that you use.  It makes it more fun when you do a bit of design yourself.  Enjoy your newfound hobby.

1. 
   fish4food | Jan 17, 2003 04:55am | #22

   Thanks for the information.  I'll give it a try!

7. 
   stevo1952 | Jan 14, 2003 08:10pm | #18

   Fish,

   I have found that catalogs such as Ethan Allen are free if you sound like you will buy.  They have great pictures and also give dimensions.  I often just find something I like and then work from the photos.  Also with the web, I have looked at Lanes web site for cedar chests etc.  Lots of good pics and dimensions.

   Good luck.