Beginner woodworker table saw question
velomark
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I am fairly new to woodworking and have table saw question. When ripping hardwood, I am getting burnmarks on the side of the wood. Does that mean my saw blade is dull or out of alignment?
Thanks
Cheers,
Velo
Replies
The most likely cause is the blade not being perfectly parallel with the fence, but you also didn't mention what type of blade you're using. Trying to rip with the wrong type blade can also cause it.
If you build it he will come.
Thanks. The blade I had been using was a 65 tooth fine kerf?? That sounds like the problem.
Fortunately, I purchased a 50 tooth Freud blade today that is supposed to be good for ripping and cross cutting. Hopefully that will solve the problem.Cheers,
Velo
A 50 tooth combo blade can give you good results, but I'd personally limit that use to the occasional rip. If you're ripping quite a bit, I'd side with forestgirl and go with a dedicated rip blade with fewer teeth. And none of them is going to work worth a darn (or be safe either) if the blade and fence alignment are out of whack. For contractors type saws, a very worthwhile investment is the PALS tablesaw alignment gizmos. They make the alignment task quite a bit easier and more exact than trying to fine adjust by tapping back and forth with a mallet.If you build it he will come.
If you have not used a 3/32 24 tooth rip blade in the same decade with a blade you described, you would not believe the difference. That said, there must also be some misalignment here. I would recommend you take a black magic marker and mark a tooth all the way forward( the last tooth that hasn't rotated under you insert). Measure it from the fence set at about 5". Then rotate the tooth back to where it is the first tooth coming out of the insert, and measure it there. I use a dial caliper, but you can use other devises. Even a good metal rule should get the measurement close enough thet you should eliminate that as a cause of the burns. if your blade and fence is not aligned, you can get the burn. Also a misalignment in your fence/blade increases the possibility of dangerous kickback.
Finally, some woods burn easier than others. Good luck.
Welcome Velo,
Burn marks can be the result of several factors. It sounds like your fence isn't aligned with the blade. There are numerous things that can contribute to this malady, alignment of the blade to the fence/mitre slots, type of wood, feed rate, etc.
Not meaning to sound Gruff, but you need to provide us with a bit more info. Can you tell us about your TableSaw, how you tuned it to cut square, the fence you're using.
Everyone in here is more than wiilling to help and even more willing to help you to provide the information that we need to help you solve your issue. Give us a little more to work with, OK?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks KidderAcres.
I have a Bosch 10" portable table saw. I am just using the fence that came with the saw. Being new to woodworking, I have not yet learned the skill of tuning the saw. Can someone provide a link to a how-to??Cheers,
Velo
Velo,I recommend that seldom opened volume: THE OWNERS' MANUAL.Cadiddlehopper
Unfortunately, with benchtop saws there are not many options to tune the saw for optimumal performance. Although you happen to have one of the better models on the market, it is not designed to produce the quality of cut that a good contractors or cabinet saw will. That said, it is not impossible to produce a decent cut with your machine (I started out with a DeWalt DW744 benchtop saw) but you will have to find ways to work around its limitations. As Kidderville suggested, the place to begin is with the owner's manual.
Michael
Were you able to tweak your Dw744 into top performance? That's the saw I have, my boss at the time had another one and this one was just kicking around, not being used, so he gave it to me. I'd love to be able to get some better results from it.
Its a great saw for a benchtop and I got respectable performance from it, but it does have its limitations. First the good points:
Great fence -- the rack and pinion design was excellent.
Good power.
Good dust collection with a shop vac.
Now the bad:
Miter gauge and miter slot were mostly useless -- too loose and no real way to adjust the fit.
Depth between the front edge of the table and the blade was way too short (I don't recall the measurement but I know it was under 6") which tended to produce a rough edge at the beginning of the cut.
Direct drive motor was incredibly loud -- at least as loud as any router I own.
I don't want to dishearten you because as I said ealier, its a great saw for what it is, and being that it was given to you -- use it until you can afford a more substantial machine. As for adjusting the saw for optimal performance I would have to refer you back to your owner's manual since it's been a number of years since I owned the saw and I frankly don't remember what tuning mine required and what I did to correct it. But I do remember getting decent cuts from it and generally being satisfied with it.
Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions and advice. I did review the manual and used the proscribed method for alligning the blade to the fence. I also put a more suitable blade on the saw. These measures helped reduce the burns but did not eliminate them. I will try some of these additonal steps tonight.
One last question. Do most of you use some sort of featherboard or similar tool to hold the board in place as you feed it through? I am feeding longer pieces of wood though (48") and am noticing a tiny bit of wiggle as the lat portion of board is passing though.
Thanks
VeloCheers,
Velo
Velo;I have a question for you. Are you using the guard? I did a conversion from the guard to a riving knife. I like it better and it has helped with keeping the burn makes down with bendy boards.Gary Katz has a tutorial on his website. Looking under the Tips and Techniques dropdown heading you will find Tool Reviews. Here you will see a title for Riving Knife Conversion which afaik he did to his own Bosch saw. Check it out.GregEdited 3/27/2007 12:15 am by gwsaltspring
Edited 3/27/2007 12:16 am by gwsaltspring
Velo, with a saw that size, you might find that using a 24-tooth ripping blade will work much better for you than even the Freud combo blade you have. I use the Freud combo blade on my Jet contractor saw (1.5HP motor), but will usually swap it out for the Diablo (by Freud) 24-tooth rip if I have much ripping to do, or the wood is thick. It's simply easier on the saw. Gives a pretty decent surface too, especially if the saw's well tuned and I feed with good technique.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The Bosch 4000 is one of the best TS in that class but still needs to be adjusted correctly to work right. the instruction manual, as mentioned earlier is a very good place to start. It shows how to set the saw up and you really need to get yourself familiar with that procedure, on any table saw or machine. These tools need to be aligned occasionally - at least checked - to cut well and safely.
I would start with spending a little time going through the alignment process, then make sure you have a good (sharp and clean also) blade. With those things known, you can work on feed rate and making the cuts safely.
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
found that if wood is fed too slow, tends to burn. could also be other reasons. such as blade
Raise your blade as high as it can go. Measure from the front of the blade to the fence. Turn the blade backwards and using the same tooth measure from the rear of the Blade to the fence. The distance should be exactly the same. If there is any difference especially if the rear is less than the front you can get burning. As others have stated using the correct blade will make a world of difference.
Velo,
I wanted to add what others have posted here. Forrest has a very good paper on blade alignment and burning that discusses the tooth count, the feed rate and the blade height. Your fence alignment to the blade dictates in part, which side of the board is burning: http://www.forrestblades.com/Forrest_Saw_Blade_Instructions.pdf
My saw didn’t say much about how to align the blade either. I had blade burn but corrected it by re-aligning the blade to the miter then properly aligning the fence to the blade based on the Forrest paper. IMO you need a dial indicator because you are going to be adjusting to the thousandth (see Forrest sheet). If you don’t have a dial indicator, you can get both the indicator and the stand from Grizzly or Harbor Freight for about 20 bucks http://www.grizzly.com/products/g9849 (you can use it for tons of stuff). I was able to align the blade within .003”.
Start with aligning the blade to the miter slots using a dial indicator:
As was posted earlier, unplug the saw raise the blade fully, and mark a tooth on your blade. Rotate this tooth to the front of the saw blade slot and measure the distance from that tooth to the miter slot (do not measure the carbide- measure just under the gullet of that tooth). Now rotate the tooth to the rear of the blade slot and measure it again. The difference is how much out of align you are. On my saw, 4 bolts held the trunion to the table. Loosening the bolts and moving the entire trunion assembly aligned the blade to the slot. As I tightened the bolts, the alignment changed, so check it in intervals (of bolt tightening) and make allowances as required. Your saw may be different.
Next, align the fence to the blade:
After the blade is perfectly aligned with the blade, (+/- .005 or better) align the fence to the blade. Forrest says the rear of the fence should be open (at the rear of the blade slot) about .005” on a good fence, more for a sloppy fence. This adjustment will help correct the burning condition. Forrest also details why the blade will cut cooler when the blade is raised 1” to 2” higher than the work.
Hope this info helps.
KB
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