bench top mortisers, any wisdom?
old_idahoan
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
mortiser, any wisdom on a bench top, which is best? i can afford up to 400.00 but if steel city or the delta are well made and perform well, i would prefer to save the money and buy lumber. thanks for any responses.
Replies
I bought the Delta from Amazon a couple of months ago. It works fine. Chose it for two reasons. It received the 'best buy' ratings from a couple of reviews I read rating the 'inexpensive' mortiser manufactures and Amazon had a sale on it at the time along with a 50 buck rebate from Delta. As I recall, Delta has two models, one cheaper than that other. The recommendations were to avoid the cheaper model.
Mike
Mike,
Although I live in the "North" now, by birth I, too, am an Ozark American, according to an email from my dad today.
Of the Arkansas tribe of Ozarkians, my grandmother always said we were not "hill-billys." She said we were higher class than that. She said we were "mountain williams."
But, I love the political correctness of "Ozark American."
:-)
Alan - planesaw
Mountain Williams.. pretty funny. The Ozark American term isn't original to me. I read it somewhere online, I forget where, and adopted it. I actually live in the Arkansas river valley south of the Ozarks but just being from Arkansas qualifies one as a mountian william if not hill billy.
Mike
I would carefully consider your expectations with a hollow chiesel mortiser. I purchased a 1hp general and after spending 1/2d working on mortise and tenons I am wondering about the purchase. I was not all that thrilled with the degree of drift (both directions) of the chisel/bit. I chose the hollow chiesel mortiser to do some through mortises for a bench, but I am not convinced that it will save any time when compared to a router for my door projects. I would look closely at the stiffness of the head assemblies when considering the purchase.
Just my two cents.
Ozark,
I have the Delta 14-651 and have noticed that when tightening the bit the key never really feels like it gets tight. Unlike on my drill press I know when the bit is tight. Do you have the same problem?
Thanks,
Greg
Hi Greg, I don't have that problem. It feels pretty much like my inexpensive Grizzly drill press does when I tighten the bit.
Mike
As with many things "best" is in the eye (or shop) of the beholder. I started with a Shopfox and couldn't change fast enough. Changed to a Powermatic. The Powermatic is great, and I would think easily one of, if not, the best. IMHO.
Alan - planesaw
I started with one of the original Deltas and then 'upgraded' to a Shop Fox which I really don't like. Next stop General International or Powermatic. Or if I get the funds - a slot mortiser.
Polarsea1,
I highly recommend the Powermatic. $399, quiet, a few built-in extras that are handy.
Alan - planesaw
$399, wow, I think I paid about twice that amount! Did I get stuck or do they sell different models?
399 was for the benchtop. That's the regular price as far as I know. Did you get one with a stand? That would be more.
Alan - planesaw
I had to build my own stand. I think the stand was about a hundred more. I got it at Tool Crib when they supposedly had a sale on it. Story of my life. I think the new ones adjust to an angle which feature mine doesn't have. I saved probably a hundred old bed frames from the apartment business and have been making stands and racks. They come in very handy for that kind of thing.
Planesaw and polarsea1, what didn't/don't you like about the Shopfox?
My main complaint is that because it turns 3600 rpm it wants to burn the bit when set as suggested and when I lower the auger enough to avoid burning and squealing (it burns some anyhow) the auger runs out and leaves a slight outward curve on each cut. It will certainly cut mortises but nothing you'd want to show your mother. The long offset/adjustable handle is really nice. I would give the fence modest marks.
Better chisel/bit sets may be the answer but I hate to invest the money at this point. I've honed and lapped the existing set so they are doing their best.
I've had the Shop Fox mortiser for several years. I've done hundreds of mortises in quarter sawn white oak, cherry, walnut and vertical grain fir. I modified a cross sliding drill press vise for use on the mortiser, but I use the Shop Fox/Grizzly chisels & bits that I sharpen myself. I haven't had any problems with the unit or quality of work it does. Many of my mortises are for through tenons, so any mistakes would show and I can't tolerate that. I think that it's capable of fine work if properly adjusted. Unless I was to replace it with a large, powerful floor model, it's performed flawlessly for me. Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
Regarding the Shopfox. Squealed like a stuck pig. The bits grind on the chisel regardless of the setting. Shopfox was not helpful. Sargegrinder said he had been using one for a long time and didn't have the squealing. In a later email he said he asked his wife to come listen. She cringed immediately and said the noise was unbearable. He then said much of his hearing was gone which might explain why he hadn't heard the noise.
It runs at a higher rpm, which can tend to burn the bits. Did on mine.
The Powermatic is quiet. No grinding and squealing noise, because there is no rubbing of the bit against the chisel. Works great.
Alan - planesaw
Thanks for your answer, and polarsea1's. I have the ShopFox but haven't used it that much yet. I did notice the squeal and burn on a 1/2" set. I sent an e-mail to Grizzly telling them I didn't like it and didn't think it should do that. A couple of days later I got a new set in the mail and a note saying sorry you weren't happy, try this one. It works fine. I have to agree though, I wish it didn't turn quite so fast.
Personally, I think the Steel City is head and shoulders above any of the other benchtop models. I'll confess, mine hasn't had much work yet, but the size of the table, the features such as stock support extensions and roller hold-ins, and the quality of the design made it my choice even though I walked into the store with the money to buy the General tilt-head model. I decided I'd rather stick with the Steel City, and if I ever upgrade, go to a floor model machine. Everything I've read about the company since has only made me more comfortable with the decision.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I bought the Steel City and am very happy with it. I bought a bench top because I don't think I am going to use it every day and I try not to get caught up in buying the most expensive no matter how much I am going to use it. One thing I did do before I used it is that I took the advice of an article in some ww magazine about tuning your machine before use. Buy the grinding cones for your machine ( Lee Valley ) and sharpen the bits and chisels before you use it. I cut a mortise with another chisel and bit without touching them up and they did drift quite a bit. I agree with the lady, Steel City offers a few more bells and whistles than the others in that price range. General International is probably the best bench top model, but it was $180 more than my SC. Tinkerer you didn't get hosed, the machine you bought is a different larger model.
Edited 2/13/2007 9:45 am ET by terrylee86
"Buy the grinding cones for your machine ( Lee Valley ) and sharpen the bits and chisels before you use it." Terry, I got a set of the honing cones, but they appeared to be a different angle than the Steel City chisels (the Lee Valley cones are made for the Delta mortiser). Are my eyes betraying me? (wouldn't be the first time)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
There are two different sets of diamond cones and you need the smaller set. I think Rockler sells them also and they have a handle that you can use to insert the cones for a better grip. I just used one of my tap wrenches, but the screwdriver like handle would be easier. Call Lee Valley, I think you have the right set, but I would call and ask. They have the best customer service I have seen.
Terry
Thanks, Terry. When I ordered the cones, I emailed LV and asked about them, they gave me the info about them being for Delta and not knowing if they'd fit the Steel City bits. Maybe there's something new (you mentioned two sets) or I just missed the other ones. Will check it out!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have the Shopfox I purchased for $185 as it was a floor demo at the local Shopfox dealer. I am told the chisel squeals, but I lost about 30% hearing in VN so that is of little relevance to me. I have cut a ton of mortises on it and had no major problems. I've gotten my money's worth and it will probably see many more mortises.
The cons I see are it runs @ 3450 rpm. On softwood, it will smoke the chisel and you have to take breaks in your routine to keep it cool enough not to dis-temper it. On the pro side the 3450 rpm has get up and go in hardwood and the job gets done much quicker and efficiently. I don't get burn on hardwood with continous duty. For that reason I tend to hand cut in soft-wood which I don't use a lot of.
The double columns are massive for a bench model and delivers an extremely strong stroke to the stock with the long stroke handle. The double column design allows basically little chance of flex and I have not had a problem with the chisel wandering on the cut.... unless.. unless.. the chisel is dull. As a parallel, I have used about every TS 24 T rip blade known on earth. I would chose a cheap but sharp Oldham @ $14 over an expensive but dull Forrest @$100. All the technology in the world is not going to make up for allowing the cutting edge to be dull!
It is then my opinion that all the bench model mortisiers will work regardless of the price if you use proper technique and understand the limits of a given machine. And... you use sharp chisels.
None of the bench models come close in giving you the versatility of an X-Y adjustable table like on "big brother". For that reason I would not personally pay over $300 for one as I have not seen one yet I couldn't get decent results on with their limited capacities by making simple modifications to by-pass a particular machines weaknesses. If I were to target that high in $$, I would simply look for a used floor model or wait till I made up the difference in price and purchase new floor machine.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Edited 2/14/2007 1:59 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Hi,
I bought a Delta 14-651 from Tyler Tool which included free shipping and the $50.00 rebate -- total price just under $200.00. I used the scary sharp system to hone the bits and sprayed with silicone spray. The mortises are clean and precise (cutting both mahogany and cherry). I'm well pleased!
Morning Jackyo...
I have no doubts that you can cut mortises with it and you'll get your money's worth even though there are no Ferrari's in the bench top class at this point at least. The purchaser can fill in the blanks that were left open by the manufacturer with a little thought.
BTW.. for any that have the short handled mortisers that just seem to come up short on leverage.... put a piece of longer pipe over the existing handle and your problems are solved. If your fence is not tall enough.. a piece of phenolic or similar non-warping face attached can correct the height and with shims even correct a fence that was badly cast and not flat.
Whatever the problem, there is usually a cheap, simple solution without having to go to a commercially priced machine as most of us "don't do commercial". ha.. ha....
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
I have a General and love it
Morning Repairman...
I came within a "tick" of purchasing a General 4 years ago when shopping for a BT mortiser. Just stumbled across a great deal at the local Shopfox dealer before I drove 45 minutes to Redmond & Son Machinery here in Atlanta which is a General distributor along with many other lines.
Well made and beefy machines which include their TS's and jointers with no frills. Nice front clamp on the machine you bought that is built on!They would sell much more here in the U.S. if the price were just a little lower IMO. That extra cost of getting the machine to the U.S. from Canada steers many in the market but on limited budgets to other choices from what I gather from friends that sell and service General at Red & Son Mach.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
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