Replies

1. 
   riverr1 | May 26, 2003 05:18am | #1

   Roland,

   There is quite a bit available on making drums. Maple snares are not made with plywood. The laminations are made on the drum. Some are steamed, and some are slowly bent into form. The latter being one of the reasons some snares are so darn expensive. Different makers use different tricksmarketing schemes for layering the laminations. Some rotate each lamination 180 degrees, Some 60, some 90, and every oddball combination you can imagine. Pretty much they all have a reason why their methods are best. Counter hoops if used are added after the drum is made. These are typically spliced together with a cut along the lines of 30 degrees. One tricky thing about a lot of snare drums is the laminations are not at right angles to each other as in plywood. This is where good rims and counter hoops become important. Some great after market rims are available in both solid metals and as castings. Be prepared to drop big $$$ for cast rims.

   You might find more info on Micky Hart's web site. Use to be planetdrum, but I couldn't tell you anymore. Modern Drummer has covered this in the past also.

   Don

2. 
   robkress | May 26, 2003 04:15pm | #2

   Roly,

   I have made several snare drums...  Both laminated and stave construction and in my experience it was all about the jigs.

   As the previous poster mentioned, laminated shells are bent and glued veneers during construction.  Yes, all the companies have their own methods of construction.

   When I did mine, it was quite a challenge to get all the veneers glued absolutely solidly to each other.  And without the right jig, it is even more difficult.  Another challenge was to get the veneers cut to the right length (of course).  But, if you cut your butt joints on the veneer at an angle, the joint can slip up or down until the veneer gets tight.  Then the absolute length of the veneer is inconsequential.  With this method though, the top and bottom of the shell doesn't come out to be a nice square and straight edge (of course).  So you need to make provisions for trimming and dressing the ends square (but you have to do that anyway for your bevel edge).

   With the laminated shell construction approach, make yourself a solid jig out of mdf or particle board that is the full height of the shell.  Line both sides of the jig with cork and make sure that you jig is absolutely round (of course).  Use slow setting glue... it takes a while to get all the pieces to do what you want.

   For stave construction, make sure that all your staves are cut very accurately as this greatly affects the glue joints.  With this method, I didn't use any jigs for glue up.  I just laid out all my pieces on a long piece of tape, glued up all the joints then brought both ends of the tape together (something wide like duct tape... and you can even use multiple pieces).  Then, in the glued up, very messy, and slippery condition, I put some steel band clamps on.  I didn't worry too much about getting everything exactly perfect because I knew that the lathe would make everything nice and parallel.  In my shells, I think I used 36 staves.  When it came to turning the stave glue up, I used a machinist's lathe (set on automatic feed with very sharp carbide insert tooling).  But I'm sure you can do this on a woodworking lathe.  Just be careful of shell thickness.  I got mine down to 5/16 but could have gone further I think.

   Here's the trick about turning that no one ever told me and I had to learn the hard way.....  No matter if you are turning a stave glue up or just the bevel ends on either kind of shell, you need to hold the shell with a solid cylinder on the inside of the shell.  Let me go into detail...

   When I first tried to turn, I was simply holding the shell at the head stock with a faceplate type affair.  But what I found is that by the time I got out to maybe 3 or 4 inches from the head stock, the part would flex away from the cutting tool (of course).  Then when it came time to cut the bevel end (end grain), I would get extraordinary chatter (to the point of nearly exploding the shell on the lathe and throwing pieces all over the place)!  And no amount of tool sharpening would cut the wood any cleaner.  I discovered that the part was so flexible it would push away from the cutting tool then dig in when the "tension" got high enough and repeat.  Thus, the extreme chatter.  I bet some of the other folks here who do those really thin fancy bowls on wood lathes could tell you some similar stories as well.  Anyway, this effect was particularly pronounced when cutting the bevel end.

   The solution was to turn a cylinder on the lathe (made of glued up particle board.... although now I think I would use mdf now) to the exact finish dimension of the inside of the shell.  Then turn the inside of the stave glue up very carefully (very light passes) to the finish dimension.  If you are laminating then skip this step of course.  Then I would take the half done shell and slip it over my solid particle board cylinder and turn the outside.  To fix the shell to the cylinder, I would put a few screws though the staves into the jig at the head stock and turn the outside not worrying about the bevel end yet.  Then I take off the shell that was mostly done with a big hunk of extra, uncut stave at the end and turn it around on the jig.  This time I just took duct tape and taped the shell to the jig at the finished end of the shell.  Then cut off the unfinished end and started work on the bevel end.  Flip and repeat for the other bevel edge.  If you are laminating, you should have the same type of situation as the ends of the laminated shell won't be at all square.

   Using the above method, I was I able to take all the flex out of the part during turning and achieved near perfect bevel edges on the finished shells.  If you are planning on cutting your bevels in some other fashion, make some sort of a similar jig.  It is the only way you will get great results. 

   For the snare beds, I cut those by hand with a file and a pneumatic grinder.

   As a last parting note, you can buy drum shells already made if you are more interested in the finished product and less interested in the shell construction.  I can't remember the companies right now but if you search the web, I'm sure you'll find them.

   Hope this was helpful.  Good luck.

   Rob Kress

1. 
   roly94 | May 26, 2003 08:00pm | #3

   Thanks tons Rob and Don.

   Yeah I am intending to make a single ply type of shell(a la Radio King or Noble and Cooley) as I make the big round shaker type boxes pretty thick and I am confident I could make a drum like this.I was thinking of using a router and bevel cutter to cut the bearing edges.This is the way Noble and Cooley does it as I have that edition of Modern Drummer('83 with Billy Cobham on the cover) that interviews them when they first introduced the snare.They first trued the edges using a Machinist's granite slab with sandpaper on it.

   I was also thinking of trying the staved type too(a la Brady) and then trueing it up as you did Rob,on a lathe.I don't think that would be too difficult as I have made staved flower pots.

   Alot of people,though,say the staved types can blow up(if not splined).Others I have read at the Pearl forum say they don't sound any different than a comparable size multiply type of shell.That is hard to believe but I really don't know.I was thinking a multiple ply type would be easier to build than both other types,however,at this point I don't think that at all.It sounds like laying up a cold-molded boat hull.Alot of work.I think I'll put it on hold and get the staved and single ply type down first.

   Yeah I am aware of Keller who sell just the raw shell,however,they don't sell the same quality to small buyers as they do the bigger buyers.

   Thanks tons again,Roland.

1. 
   robkress | May 26, 2003 11:13pm | #4

   Roland,

   In my quest to make a stave shell, I too was concerned about the shell exploding either in cutting or use.  So I made up a few shells with the specific intention of breaking them.  Here's what I found.....

   Even though my stave construction was just simple but joints with yellow glue (I might choose something different today), I was unable to break any shell in any thickness at the glue joint.  All my shells were made of soft maple and started out at nominal 3/4" thick stock.  But then again, I took great care in cutting my angles on the staves. 

   A router bit to cut the bevel is probably a pretty good and easy choice although it is harder to vary the angle of the bevel if you want anything other than 45 degrees.  I would probably make a jig so that the router has a bigger surface to ride on though.

   As far as sound goes, I can tell you that my stave drums sound much different than any other drum I have played.  But that could be a lot of factors adding up.  I can tell you however, that the snare beds make a very significant difference in sound.  Be very specific about that and what you want and do.

   The snare that I played most was a 5 x 14 maple with an oil rubbed finish.  Shell thickness near 3/8".  Fairly sharp bevel edge.  It has a very dry sound.  I tune it extremely tight (kind of the way I like my snares).  The beds on the snare are what I would consider to be perfect.  Not really any significant snare buzz but shallow enough that you can't hit the head without the snares making noise. 

   The home grown snare that I play mostly now is a 3 x 13 piccolo.  Shell thickness a little bit under 5/16" (which is very thin for a stave shell).  Very sharp bevel edge without any round over on the outside edge.  Several coats of spray lacquer inside and out.  Very bright and very loud for some reason (which is odd for a thin wood pic).  The snare beds are too deep in my opinion.  The snare is just not lively enough (which is what I was hoping to achieve with that snare).  Still a nice sound.  Of course a little thin sounding.

   My snare of choice however is my Pearl masters custom extra.  Literally the best snare drum I have ever played.  In fact, I really think it is perfect.  Wouldn't give it up for anything.  So once, I got that one, I really just stopped making snare drums and concentrated more on playing that really good one.

   Good luck,

   Rob Kress

1. 
   roly94 | May 27, 2003 08:21pm | #5

   Rob,

   Is that the Pearl MMX or MRX series? That is a ply shell right?You think that is better than the stave shell you made? With all that glue 'twixt the plys.

   Have you ever played a single ply type like N and C or Dunnett or even an old Slingerland Radio King(which isn't nearly as sensitive as a N and C)?What about a titanium?Thanks Roland.

1. 
   robkress | May 27, 2003 11:33pm | #6

   Roland,

   I have played an aweful lot of snares.  Can't even remember all of them.  I will say that this pearl snare that I have is literally the best sounding snare that I have ever played.  Definitely the most versitile. 

   Take this with a grain of salt though.  Eventhough this snare is wildly versitile, it could never be a piccolo or a brass shell.  Having said that..... I will keep this snare forever and use it for most everything I do.

   Rob Kress

   Yes, I have played the N&C snare as well as other sdtave drms and my pearl beats them all.  But it may just be a mater of the sound I like.