Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 27, 2007 03:45am | #1

   Bob, I'm a big fan of the cannister-filter DC's.  They filter down to quite small particles, and you don't have the dirty hassle of emptying bags in the same way you do with the bag filters.  I have no idea what the difference might be between brands.

   Put your saw closest to the DC so you have the highest CFM right at the worst machine to collect from.  What I've heard about the DW-735, it shoots the chips out so hard, you'll want to be sure it's not too close to the DC.  One guy ended up with an inverted porcupine when he hooked his 735 up real close to a cannister filter DC, LOL.

   Can't remember what size jointer you have.  If it's a 6" it won't need a tremendous amount of CFM, even for face-jointing.  Did you read John White's comments about using a downdraft table?  Are you using one now??  Router table doesn't take a huge amount of air flow if you've got the router boxed in.  Mine's on a 2.5" hose (Y'd) that's connected to the overhead blade-guard boom of the saw, on to the DC.  A 4" hose would be better.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 27, 2007 09:41pm | #2

   forestgirl,

   Yeah I can't understand why they offer as standard a 30 micron bag.  It would seem to me that in most cases the market for these is typically in a small shop where the DC is in the shop, not outboard.

   30 microns is useless in this environment so yes I too want the cannister with a more useful 2 micron filtering.  If I remember you have either the Jet or Penn State?  Right now I'm kinda leaning toward the Jet with the cannister as in:

   http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5253&cs=60039 or maybe

   http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5946

   Got any recommendations?

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

   Edited 7/27/2007 2:44 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres

   Edited 7/27/2007 2:47 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 27, 2007 11:15pm | #4

   I have the Jet.  I think Sarge has the Penn State?  I seem to remember he wrote a really long thread about it, so you might want to find it (if you can, LOL).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jul 28, 2007 06:42am | #5

   Evening Bob...

   36980.5 in reply to 36980.3 

   "I have the Jet.  I think Sarge has the Penn State?  I seem to remember he wrote a really long thread about it, so you might want to find it (if you can, LOL").

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

   *****************************************************

    

   I have the Penn State Tempest Cyclone I did the review on and and not a cannister DC. I do have a Penn State 1 HP DC I have set up to use on a dedicated basis on a router table and SCMS. I've had it for 5 years and it works great with direct hook up on my old TS.. BS.. jointer.. etc. But... when I moved up to much larger machines recently, it had to take a back seat to the Cyclone as you can't tow a 40' trailer with a compact truck.

    

   I will not comment on Penn State's current crop of DC's as the playing field has changed. But they do put the 2 microns on them from the git-go as all should, but all don't to save cost I suppose?

    

   Good luck in your decision and I don't have a clue how this came up printing green on my computer? But I bet that FG does! ha.. ha...

    

   Regards...

    

   Sarge.. john thompson

    

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 28, 2007 02:27pm | #8

   Sarge,

   Thanks for the reply.  I'm leaning toward the Jet as the price/performance seems to be there for what I need.  Seems like the marketing guys for a lot of woodworking tool manufacturers ought to listen to a REAL woodworker some time!  Don't offer us a useless 30 micron bag!  Bet they never stepped foot in a woodshop.

   You seem to have some clout with them, maybe slap em up side the head when you get a chance. <G>

   If you are using Internet Explorer, at the top of the posting screen there are several settings, i.e. Paragraph, Font, Size & Color.  For some reason the color got changed to green from black, I'm guessing.

   There are numerous effects that you can apply using these as well as B, I and U.  Just hover (like in nearly stationary flight in a helicopter) your mouse over them and a popup bubble will show you what they do.

   To utilize them, type in your text, then left click on the mouse and drag it over the text you want to modify.  You will see it as white text on black, or white text on green, etc. then click on the mod you want and the highlighted text will change.

   Regards,

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   forestgirl | Jul 28, 2007 07:34pm | #15

   Hi, Sarge, thanks for piping up here.  The green type resulted from when you copied my message.  My signature, which is green, was included and spilled over into your typing.  To fix that, you'd need to go back and highlight all of your typing and then go up to the "Color" drop-down list and choose black or whatever you want.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jul 28, 2007 11:28pm | #16

   Afternoon Jamie...

   Had a feeling that happened as when I started typing it was a green duplication of your sign off. I like green.. so I just left if alone as it I could have broken down a Uni-saw to the final piece and re-assembled it in a much shorter time than it would have taken me to figure it out "all alone"! :>)

   Regards...

   Sarge.. john thompson

2. 
   gcg | Jul 27, 2007 11:13pm | #3

   Get the Jet.  I believe its the 1100RCK.  Thats the canister with remote.  I paid the little extra for the one with the remote even though I wired my entire shop with switched outlets that turn the machine on and also turn on the DC.  I always use the remote.  Its usually right on top of my TS fence.

   Also the the canister really does seem to filter the very fine stuff.  I think selling those other ones with the vinyl bag that traps nothing but chips and not putting a warning on them is almost criminal. 

   Anyway I like my Jet (I'm not married to any brand and have one of almost every brand) and have never had a problem with it.  Bag changing is a sinch.  Hope this helps.

3. 
   mapleman | Jul 28, 2007 07:24am | #6

   Bob,

   I have no personal experience with the Penn State dust collectors, but I did get a new catalog from them today.

   They have a 1 1/2 hp 1250 cfm 110v  dust collector for $435 with 50 feet of duct hose included free.

   I know you wanted to keep it at 110v, but they have a 2 hp 1500cfm 220v dust collector on sale for $389 (no free hose)

   They also have a 3 1/2 hp 2000 cfm 220v dust collector for $650 (I thought this was a lot of suction for the money)

   All of the above prices are with the 1 micron cannister filter (40" tall on the 2000cfm model)

   Jet has (in the Woodcraft catalog) a  1hp 650 cfm 110v for $329

   they also have a 1 1/2 hp 1100cfm (110v?) for $479 ($499 with remote control)

   The Jet dust collectors have 2 micron cannister filters

   Hope this helps.

   As for the cyclones, I had ruled out the Penn State cyclones until Sarge did his review, mainly due to a few people here at knots who had less than satisfactory things to say about them.

   After reading Sarge's review, and doing a lot of research of my own, I will be "pulling the trigger" on the Tempest 1535S cyclone myself in the next few weeks. Probably more cyclone than I need right now, but hopefully I will be able to expand my business in the future and "grow into" this one.

   Like him, I feel that the Penn State cyclones give the most "bang for the buck".

   And Sarge, good thing you told us after you got the last Bridgewood heavy duty mortiser. I would have been trying to snipe that one out from under you myself. Foolish of me to think they would have "a few more" to sell.

   Cheers,

   Lee

1. 
   polarsea1 | Jul 28, 2007 11:32am | #7

   I have a Delta 50-760: it's very efficient and comes furnished with a 1 micron filter bag.

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 28, 2007 02:41pm | #9

   Lee,

   Just when I thought it wasn't going to rain. 

   Your post will cause me to take another look at Penn State. <G>  Really appreciate it very much.  I looked at Sarges post but my needs are on a much smaller scale however the quality seems to be there.

   I'm taking my time with this as I want to make a decision that will work.  I'm what I like to think is a serious hobbiest if there is such a thing!

   Oh, and the clamps work great!  Thanks again for those.

   Off to the Penn State WEBsite for another look.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jul 28, 2007 03:27pm | #11

   Morning Bob..

   First.. thanks for the tips on the computer. Actually my wife retired young from the state of GA. in MIS operations and has shown me all this several times. I just have senior moments. :>)

   I would take a very close look at the PS cannister as things have changed over the last several years. The competition is very fierce in this product as normally one only buys once, especially the cyclones. Penn State up-graded their cyclones to compete with the quality of the Oneida's in the form of the newer Tempest. I would not purchase the old style (which are much cheaper) unless.. unless.. the bottom line with the Jet or PS DC falls into the same price range as the DC's. Just some fuel for thought there as the former line of cyclones are considerably cheaper from PS.

   I am sure they have upgraded their DC's also.. but after you do some through research you have any doubt remaining; I would go with the Jet in that case as I have seen it in action in several local shops and it is good quality and efficient. As I stated, I have not seen nor researched the current offerings of DC's from PS. They very well could be a better bang for the buck or they may not. That's why you need to have a very serious and through look at them in comparison before you drop $$ on the counter.

   Good luck and highest regards for your decision...

   Sarge.. john thompson

1. 
   Ron01960 | Jul 28, 2007 03:29pm | #12

   Bob, check out NH craigs list there are several listed. I didn't read all, Good luckRon in Peabody

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 28, 2007 03:41pm | #13

   Hey Sarge,

   I got out-bid by $5 on the MS-10 with micro-seconds left on closing and the same scenario the next evening on closing by $10 on the MS-12.

   Not being an E-Bay guru either I think there's a way to automatically respond to a bid by bumping your up by a set amount.  I'll bet that's what happened.  Best of luck with the mortiser.

   As for researching DCs B4 showing the GREEN, that's a BIG 10-4!  Will take small steps with the decision.  Seems like a good time to be in buy mode as the competition is getting better all the time.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

3. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jul 28, 2007 03:10pm | #10

   Morning Lee...

   "And Sarge, good thing you told us after you got the last Bridgewood heavy duty mortiser. I would have been trying to snipe that one out from under you myself. Foolish of me to think they would have "a few more" to sell".

   Cheers,

   Lee

   **************

   Hee..... Funny thing is that Curt told me they would be up for auction 3 or 4 weeks ago. I could never find them on the E-bay Store. I suppose I am not the world's Google guru (quit laughing FG) . I just happened to stumble over it as I just typed in Mortiser instead of Floor Mortise, etc. etc. A MS-10 and MS-12 were just sitting there with a few days left.

   I got out-bid by apparently an E-bay guru (I don't normally do E-bay and have no clue.. my wife has an account where she sells high end crochet). I got out-bid by $5 on the MS-10 with micro-seconds left on closing and the same scenario the next evening on closing by $10 on the MS-12. I don't get upset easily, but I wasn't a happy camper as my knowledge of these matters is definitely lacking.

   Called Curt the day after to see if there were any left? No.. but both the winners of the MS-10 and MS-12 from the previous auction sell were  piddliing around with payment. Why would you go to the trouble of maneuvering bids and then shoot yourself in the foot after winning?

   Curt was tired of haggling at that point and offered me either of those previous ones for my highest bid on either I missed. I really only need the MS-10 even though that MS-12 is a lot of machine and basically industrial strength. At that price I didn't even hesitate in the decision even though the MS-10 is built like a rock and very well suited for the smaller shop.

   The MS-12 has the very large steering wheel in the front compared to the 10 and 45* degree tilt with vertical table travel and packs some major punch with 1" + chisel capacity. A whopping 600 lbs. of cast iron compared to a whopping 400 lbs. on the MS-10. Both are mainly cast iron.

   So.... I figure if UPS can race the "truck" with Dale Jarrett on board, Bridge-wood can race the "mortiser" with Sarge behind the wheel! I'm adding one of those air horns like the truckers used to put in those Macks and Peter-bilts and moving that baby in front of my TV so I can log some simulated track time before actually showing up for the "Daytona 5-0-0" in February.

   I have no doubt either of these machines will attack hard-wood mortises like slicing warm butter with a knife... but I am a little suspect at how the MS-12 will fare "drafting" at Daytona?

   But... one things for sure, I'm having some kind of fun before it arrives and anticipate even more when it hits the ground running. My "foxy lady" is kind of upset that her beloved Jeff Gordon is getting some real competition with the addition of the BW. Strangely enough she went to the corner pharmacy for aspirin two days ago and hasn't returned. Probably took a wrong turn? Go figure!! ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..

   Regards...

   Sarge.. john thompson

4. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jul 28, 2007 05:30pm | #14

   Morning again Bob...

   Go to E-bay.. Google up mortiser and the BW MS-10 is the very first listing. Scroll to the bottom and look under "other things the seller is currently selling or whatever". Check bottom right...

   Bridge-wood BW-003C 3 HP.. 110v.. mobile.. Double 1 micron cannisters.. 7" or two 4" (meaning a single 7" inlet with a Y connector that slides over it to give you 2 4" inlets)  and the current bid is $150 with 3 days left. Retail was $399 and ships in 3 boxes. I would suspect shipping of UPS oversize to be around $80 ? as the two filters will come in a separate box and probably ride as over-size I at a charged rate of 30 lbs. each as opposed to actual weight.

   If interested and need more specs, call Curt Wilke on Monday at his toll free number 1-800-235-2100 and he will answer any questions you might have.

   Just alerting you to another possibility in your chase.

   Regards...

   Sarge.. john thompson

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 30, 2007 04:54am | #17

   Sarge,

   I'll have to check that out.  Thanks for the tip. 

   At present it looks like the Penn State Dustroyer is in the cards for me as the CFO (wife) is for it.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jul 30, 2007 05:43am | #18

   Evening Bob...

   Tell the CFO that the biggest safety upgrade that can be made in your shop is in dust collection. Probably the biggest mistake I have made in WW'ing in almost 36 years was not recognizing the importance dust collection can and does make.

   Until about 5 years ago I didn't even wear a mask. I don't like wearing a mask for dust or fumes... but I reverently put them on now to do even a cross-cut or simple finish application. And at almost 60, I could tell the difference the day I started using them. I felt the difference the day I added a cyclone as my volume of work out-grew my DC. I could tell the difference the day I added an over-head Jet filtration system to the already existing cyclone at that point. There is a difference!

   You might be able to get by with a DC till eternity. But... you might add to the "first lady".. kids.. grand-kids.. whatever.. that an over-head to compliment your DC is not all that expensive and would make a very welcomed Xmas.. birthday.. etc. gift for an old man that would like to spend a few more years with them with the aid of the best dust set-up one can afford. And you won't be joking if you tell them that!

   Regards...

   Sarge.. john thompson 

   Edited 7/29/2007 10:45 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 30, 2007 03:08pm | #19

   Sarge,

   10-4 on the overhead.  Mine sits up on two crossbeams, about 9' from the floor.  Thank God I have a remote!

   Now that we're talking about o-heads, the roof profile in my woodshop is gambrel shaped and I have it located smack in the middle of the shop (20' x 22') overall which leaves me with 16' x 20' working space.

   My concern is placement as I'm not sure mine is loacted properly.  I recall a post someone put up here in Knots about placement of overhead filters.  Any suggestions on placement would be most appreciated.

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

   Edited 7/30/2007 8:10 am ET by KiddervilleAcres

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jul 30, 2007 05:40pm | #20

   Morning Bob...

   I have mine placed "dead center" also. I am not sure what the dust guru's call for? But after viewing my machine-work-bench set-up common sense told me to put it there. My large dust-makers are centrally located around the cyclone in a peri-meter. That cyclone is just off center of shop where the over-head filter is so any find particles escaping the filters in it are very close to the O/H Jet filters.

   BTW.. my cyclone has 1 (one) 16' clear flex 6" diameter. I hook each large dust-maker up to it as I use them. Quick change and I enlarged each 4" port on each of the 18" BS.. Uni-saw.. 20" planer and 8" jointer to 6" so there is no reduction in size from the cyclone to the machine. My 8" jointer now sits in the back shop and I just roll it out quickly to the outer doors and cyclone when in use. The 20" planer sits in back of main shop as it won't clear the door to the back shop. Just roll it up to the outer doors and cyclone in same procedure. By recently utilizing that 800 sq. ft. available in the back shop, it frees up space in the main 900 sq. ft. where the cyclone is

   Not much gets by the original job of the clone at this point. I have my router table and SCMS hooked directly to my old PS DC as it does an excellent job on those. My work-bench is within 4' of the over-head and any sanding done on it is in it's grasp.

   So.. I think the best place to put an Over-head is where common sense based on your set-up tells you it would do the most good. I see no need to consult a dust guru as it isn't really rocket science IMO. ha.. ha...

   Regards...

   Sarge.. john thompson