Particular as I am I’d like to hear from experienced woodworkers about their favorite time tested 3hp routers. I have a Hitachi 3hp in my router table that is basic but takes tremendous beating as we run lots of moulding every day. We also have a 2 1/4 hp Dewalt that we like but has become unreliable after 2-3 years of use and we just had to jumper the speed control to full on (choice was $85 replacement). I just bought a Makita 2 1/4 hp with plunge and fixed base but am disappointed: will not cut through 3/4″ plywood with 1/4″ spiral bit -which we do all day long with the Dewalt. It screams and can only cut 1/2 way at a time. Also, there is no way to center the base and the optional guide bushing without using a caliper (I read in FW mag that you can buy a centering cone from other manufacturer – but this is a nuicance and not necessary with some other makes) Also, the depth indicator is a joke.
My tool repair guy likes Mkita and thinks Dewalt stinks quality wise. Bosh is good but parts can take a long time.
What shall we buy? I’m thinking maybe of Makita or Bosch 3hp plunge???
Replies
Roman,
2hp should cut 1/4" trenches in 3/4" ply with no problems. Before you lay out big dollars for another router, is it worthwhile considering if the router bit contributed the problem, or is it the glue in the ply gumming up the works? I accept what you're saying and can see from the tone and wording of your post that you didn't start in the game yesterday, so I'm just expressing my surprise here, I suppose.
I use a Makita all day with no problems (model 3612__ - variable speed, 3.5hp). Hitachi have a similar reputation here with trade. We almost all use either of these two brands exclusively.
However, a better-functioned machine has appeared on the scene since - the Triton router, made locally here and released onto the US market. It has a lot of innovative features, which no other router has. Here's a link to the site that describes it and their home page. They have recently (Jan 03) released a set of suitable template guides for this machine that fit the Porter Cable system.
I initially thought that it would have been top-heavy when I saw the pictures of it, but having had one in my hands, the balance is fine. I agree with the pluses and minuses in the description - while I couldn't turn the Triton on and use it, (saw it in a shop) this review summarises my first impressions of the machine.
The company's reputation here is in the DIY market (occasional use) and not trade (1-2 hours actual working time per day). They've been around a while, not a fly-by-night operation.
Cheers, eddie
Edited 2/2/2003 2:27:19 AM ET by eddie (aust)
Eddie,
Just for clarification, the Triton router is made in Taiwan, not Australia. The company importing it, however, is Aussie.
Roman,
I beat the hell out of a Makita 3.25 hp plunge router and have been for around 4 years now. No problem to date. I've also beat a Hitachi for a year with no problems so I wouldn't have a problem recommending either. Now if I was in the market for a new router in this range I would take a good look at the machine Fein put out. Looks very similar to the Makita but my guess would be it's built a little tougher. I have other Fein tools and they are some of the finest tools I've used.
I have to add my endorsement for the Makita 3612. I've had mine for about 12 years. I've used it to rough out over 750 joints in a timber frame house, to cut the mortises for 40 doors, to raise panels for the same doors, as well as two sets of kitchen cabinets, and the thing is still going strong. If its longevity you're after this is a great machine.
Bosch or Mak makes great plunge router. Hitachi is really good too.
Roman, anyone running an inverted router all day, every day as you report to make mouldings has gone way beyond the capability of a mere 3- 3.5 HP router, and you shouldn't be asking the question you're asking.
You should be asking which spindle moulder (shaper) you might buy--- a tool designed for running all day, every day. A better quality cut for one, and a hell of a lot quieter to boot. From personal experience, I can recommend a Felder as being a pretty good spindle moulder, but there are others out there-- I just haven't used all of them to suggest one. Slainte.
Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Richard;
Thanks for the imput. FYI we do have a shaper, but because our runs can be very small and numerous, our router table gets much more use. Our Hitachi is dedicated to this use and has done a great job. We just wanted to have a second hand held machine and had selected a Makita 2 1/4 and were surprised with its shortcomings. As I said, are constantly cutting circles or arcs in 3/4 sheet goods... can you suggest a jig for mounting a shaper upside down for this purpose -- just a joke!
Roman,
I just read RJ's post and he's right if you're looking for a shaper. I totally missed this in original reply. Add one more important plus - a shaper is designed to run 'upside-down' with dust falling down onto the spindle, etc..., something routers are not designed for.
But, your post can be read two ways, as when you talk about guide collars, base off-centre, etc..., this relates to using it freehand (or with a guide rail/fence/template, in any case) almost exclusively.
Could you clarify what you want to do with the router please?
Cheers (again), eddie
Eddie, you were right the first time. Richard hadn't read carefully. I was merely interjecting for a reader interested in routers that the Hitachi 3hp is very ruggend and will stand up to continuous use. We use the router table bec. it is much faster to do setups than our shaper. But we were looking for that perfect router to have a backup hand held router and we were diappointed in the Makita 2 1/4 with the dual bases. I think I'll take your advise and get the Makita 3hp. Thanks
You're right Roman. I did mis-read your question. Sorry about that. I went back to your opening post. You're looking for a big plunge router to use hand held, mostly for pattern routing by the looks of it.
I've usually had good luck with what was the old Elu line, which has morphed into DeWalt, of which I have examples of all their range, but I've been tempted to buy one or more of the Bosch routers. The only reason I haven't bought one (Bosch) is because of interchangeabilty issues. Many of the DeWalt accessories and parts can be switched back and forth between the models, but they may not switch between DeWalt and Bosch.
My shopmate has a couple of Bosch routers, as well as Makita, and I like them, but he's been gradually switching over mostly to DeWalt which came about because he'd seen me use mine many times, and he borrowed them for some jobs, and I guess he decided he liked them.
Over the years I guess I've used a wide range of routers working for different employers-- but being self employed nowadays I don't get the chance to use a wide variety of different brands anymore. Some of those routers I liked, and some stank. But most of the big names supplying industrial quality routers seem to be mostly reliable, and the new to the US Triton looks interesting.
If you're doing a lot of pattern cutting in sheet goods, maybe an overarm pin router might have a use? Plenty of power and designed for all day running. Might be worth looking at anyway. Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Hi Richard, interesting about the yellow machines. I guess I've been brainwashed by my tool repair guy (he's authorized repair center for all the main brands) who says "friends don't let friends buy yellow tools". He really insists that they are poorly engineered and made. Re. the Triton, I showed my repair guy an article and he went to the computer and made an inquiry re repairs. It turns out there are no repair centers in the US. Kind of kills you how all the mags and every catalog in the world jumps on the bandwagon but noone will tell you you couldn't get on repaired -- at least for the time being. Take care.
Well, Roman, I was practically brought up on Elu routers, owning my first one back in the mid-'70's in the UK-- a wee plunge job, and then I kept on buying their very functional plungers in different sizes-- I've never really used a fixed base router much. We had some 50's style clunkers like Black and Decker around back then, but the Elu plunge router line was a revelation. I was stuck on Elu after that, and we'd never heard of Porter Cable in the UK, although they've carved out a bit of a niche for themselves there in the last ten years.
I moved to the US in the early '90's and went hunting for my favourite Elu's, and all I could find was this black and yellow wasp looking gear that looked a dead ringer for Elu, except it was called DeWalt-- which at the time was a bit of a joke woodworking tool firm in the UK. Still, it turned out that Crap & Pecker owned both the Elu name, and the DeWalt name, and I assumed they just put yellow and black jackets on the Elus that came out of Austria for the US market-- which turned out not to be the case.
I too have quality concerns with the DeWalt brand that the old Austrian Elu lot would never have let slide by. The pressed steel monkey metal side fence is nowadays poor as compared to the old cast ones. I don't like the fact that the straight edge of the router base is not actually straight and needs work to get it so, and it irritates me that the side fence rods and fence holes don't line up properly with the holes in the base of the machine.
Still, I'm used to the Elu/DeWalt style of router, even with their more and more obvious lack of quality, and I'm reluctant to change. There again, I wouldn't be completely averse to spending maybe $1,500 on a really top class router, but buyers like me are few and far between. My next biscuit jointer, if I can wear out my current machine quick enough will be a Lamello. Those guys can really make a biscuit joiner-- and everything else is scrabbling in the dust..
DeWalt are probably nowadays driven to produce a tool for the cheapest price like everybody else-- how else can you buy such a machine for so little? And it seems incredible to me that you can buy a whole functioning contractors saw, brand new, for as little as about $600 or $700. $600 is less than what I charge for two days labour, and that's about three hours work for a poor quality lawyer, so how the hell they can make a half decent saw for that price I have no idea, ha, ha.
No repair centres US based would be a strong incentive for me not to buy a Triton router, even though they look interesting--- but if they'd like to give me one to test to destruction, that might be different. Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Hello RichardJ, You can't buy an ELU in the UK now. The trade name " ELU " has been withdrawn!
Regards Len
Len, I was aware of that. I keep my UK/European contacts and knowledge base pretty well oiled, so to speak, ha, ha. I was really refering to the time that I was buying and using routers in the UK. When I moved to the US, there were still just a few Elu's sitting on the shelf at US retailers, but the yellow and black was taking over, so I chose to go with that as I was aware that the Elu brand was on the way out, certainly in the US. I think the UK followed suit a year or two later-- probably about '95 or '97?
As I mentioned, Porter Cable had no UK presence in the '80's and early '90's that I can recall, and nor did Delta, both big in the US, of course. And Trend came up with their own routers in the early or mid '90's, which from a superficial inspection seem essentially to be a clone of the Elu (now DeWalt) pattern. Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Roman,
I went through a terrible string of tools from DeWalt also. This was 5+ years ago, and I'v been considering them again because so many talk highly of them. I'll give another vote for the Hitachi though. I have an M12, not the varible speed, and it just keeps going. I work with a lot of old, recycled wood that is often hard as a rock and it doesn't phase the Hitachi. It does need a solid footing though or it will scare the hell out of you.
Don
Don
I have always believed that all tool companies have hits and misses, from my experience. I know from past post that you do not care for Dewalt. I can tell you from experience to avoid the drills and jig saws. Their scroll saw was designed by the Canadian Excalibur Co. Not bad. The SCMS is a nice piece of work even though I opted for the Hitachi C10FS. I just bought a 621 2 H P rouuter and love it. I have not had it long enough to see how it holds up. Roman mentioned a problem with the variable speed. Roman is pushing it hard day after day thought, as it will take me several years to give an endurance evaluation. I love the feel of the Elu router.
The Hitachi M12V is a battle wagon. IMO, the best choice for a table mount. I prefer a smaller, balanced router for plunge and hand-held operations. Time will tell on the DW 621.
I guess my bottom line is, glad to see you are at least giving DW a second look. We have a tendency to give the whole line a bad name if we get a sour grape. Remember when we were kids. If it was made in Japan, it was junk. How many of us don't at least own a Japanese camera, sound system, electronic divice or car. Then if it was made in Taiwan, it is junk. Since everything is made in Taiwan now, we are discovering that it depends on the companies design and quality control. I have a Sunhill jointer that is a dream, and it's made in Taiwan. I could add others, but you get the point. Current trend is, if it's made in China-it's junk. I suppose the next knock will be, if it's made in Iraq-it's junk. And probaly is junk or radio-active. ha..ha..
BTW, the reason I bought the Hitachi 1/2" drill was may old 31 year old Craftsman (Craftsman is junk) that has torqued about 6 trillion sheet metal screws went down. Went straight out and bought the high torque Hitachi. Just for curiosity I put a set of brushes in the old Craftsman and guess what. Still purring like the day I bought it back in 71. But of course everyone will tell you Craftsman is junk. Do I think Craftsman is junk? I base my opinions on an individual tool. That drill ain't junk, it's an old work-horse and it just don't know what "Quittin' Time" is supposed to mean. ha..ha..
Have a good day and keep an open mind on the DW...
sarge..jt
Roman
The Hitachi M12V is hard to beat under the table. The TR12 is one of the most balanced big 3 HP routers I have ever used for free-hand. It doesn't have variable speed, though. I prefer a 2 HP for free-handing. I like the Elu (ugh, Dewalt 621) for the small base, controls and dust collection.
If you are commercial though, you need to consider the remarks of Slainte. You can haul a log in a small pick-up, but it's not a loggin' truck.
Luck...
sarge..jt
Hey Sarge,
We use the router for a million fast setup uses both on the router table and off. We also have a shaper for doors etc. The Hitachi 3hp stays on the table and is a tank of a router. the Dewalt 2 1/4 plunge is great but has had a lot of problems lately including loss of speed controll --option $85 repair. So we were looking for another router for hand held work and were disappointed by the Makita with dual bases. Thanks for your imput.
Roman
Thanks for the input on the DW 621. The bad news is I just bought one after using a friends. It's got great balance and I love the small base for hand held operations. May not be enough power for commercial, but I'm not anyway. I'm sorry to hear about the speed control problem after I just made the purchase.
The good news is I went through the shop and basement and collected enough extra this and extra that I did not use on projects over the last 2 years. Returned them to the big box for $230 credit. Got the $199 router with a $19 cerdit after taxes. ha..ha..
Good luck with the makita...
sarge..jt
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