I’m looking to finally upgrade to a better jointer in my shop. I had a spike in high-paying projects lately, so I have some extra capital for the shop!
I’m looking at the Powermatic 54A 6″.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
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Replies
Hey, Matthew, that's great news. Something to consider though -- why get only a 6" jointer? Sounds like your business is going well, and you can get a great 8" jointer for basically the same money. Grizzly's 8", 75"-table jointer is $875 + $78 shipping, and has a solid table now, rather than the extensions they had on the earlier version. Talk to Frenchy about his Grizzly for reassurances that it will handle any load you throw at it.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I agree with forestgirl - the 8" jointer is the better route. My 6" Grizzly has performed well for 3-4 years now - no complaints. I would assume the 8" would be equally satisfying.
Congrats on the extra dough!
Ooops, that's Matthew who has the extra dough (don't I wish). That aside, I don't think I've seen any complaints from those who have the G0500 jointer. It's a beast, and now that they've gone to a solid 75" table, I'd have no reservations about getting one.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
Thanks for your suggestions, as always. I don't know if I would say I have "extra" cash. It's just that I earmark a certain amount of woodworking earnings for new tools and I just happen to have some of those earnings on hand from holiday projects.Well, as always, the choice of which tool to buy is never easy! Well, it used to be easy back when I was a new woodworker, but only the buying part. When I got the tool into my shop, that was the hard part. Now that I know more about tools, the hard part comes before the tool goes into my shop.I've got a list of jointers to compare now. I wish I could get to a Grizzly showroom to look at their machines...
Matthew,
If you call Grizzly they will provide references in your area that will allow you to come and see the machine...
The Yorkcraft 8" from wilke machinery is pretty nice, I just got one, they're discounting them to 610$ plus shipping (122$ for me in Chapel Hill, NC) which is quite a bit less than the griz. It's only a 3 knife cutter compared to 4 for the griz, but it's more than adequate for my hobbiest needs, and appears sturdy enough for production work. Built in mobile "base" (wheels and casters) and a switch above the table. I like the rack and pinion fence, I just wish the infeed table was handwheel adjusted instead of lever arm but that's nitpicking.
Slightly shorter table (72" vs. 75"), but the Yorkcrafts are supposed to be good machines! Nice buy!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forest,
I have the 8 x 75 Grizz jointer and no problems even planed a heavy walnut log on it Saturday. (Won't tell you what happened to those long wet shavings in my dust collection system &$&^*((() )
Anyway, I see you make a lot of reference to table length. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why one needs such a long table? When I roll this machine back into its storage space it's like steering an ocean liner.
European jointers are normally much wider and shorter and I believe more practical.
Jellyrug,
The reason for the long bed is long boards! a short bed works great for little pieces of wood but if you ever need to do an 8 foot lor longer board even the 75inch Grizzly is too short..
Imagine a slightly warped 8 foot long board which part do you wanrt straight? or do you want the whole thing straight?
Frenchy,
If your jointer is set up correctly, you can get a straight board 10' long from a 55" jointer table.
Outfeed table zero to blades top dead center, infeed table below top dead center the depth of cut and make sure the part of the board exiting the blades remains flat and true with the fence and outfeed table all the time.
Jellyrug,
I agree, it's possible to straighten a long board on a short jointer. But it's much easier to do on a jointer with a longer bed.
And the geometry of the situation means that you create less waste on the longer-bed machine.
I currently have a 6" jointer and I can't wait until I again have the space for an 8" (or larger) machine. I think the bed length on an 8" machine is as long as these things should get and the length increase that automatically happens on domestic machines as the width increases is not really logical. But man, those big jointers are impressive in their physical mass!
Rich
Can you? imagine a board warped over more than the 55 inches you gave me to work with. basically a 55 inch jointer has a 2 foot infeed bed and a 2 foot outfeed bed.. trying to hold a heavy 10 foot board/ timber flat with only a two foot surface to hold it against is a real exercise in frustration.. Of course I use infeed tables and outfeed tables but I don't care how carefully they are made they are never as accurite as the bed of the jointer is..
If I had my druthers I want a bed only slightly longer than an aircraft carriers flight deck..
Now if all I did is make little pieces of wood to use in small items I could understand your position..
What can I say?
I have jointed boards with no visible glue line directly from my table saw, 8' long. I believe the fence is not even 55" long....... Only trick is to support the board well, all the way against the fence and before as well as after the saw.
A typical Robland 12" jointer has a 55" long table, see link below. By your standards they have probably lost their marbles, and then you have to pay the price of three Grizzley's on to top it all ?
http://www.jayceetools.co.uk/robland_xsd310.html
On my table saw I clamp a 10 ft long piece of angle iron and I'm able to saw boards that are about 8 feet long reasonably straight, enough for me to joint them. really curved pieces of wood I snap a chaulk line and free hand it..
Since not all curves, warps etc. occur in the first two feet how can you assume that simply running it over the two feet at the start of a board will properly set the best average cut?
18 to twenty feet is the length of a lot of my boards, why have a joint in a chunk of wood if you don't need it? but if you try to control a 4x8 on only a two foot long bed of a jointer either you have muscles like Popeye or have somehow figured out a method where you don't need straight or flat to work from.. If it's either one of those I'm really jealous.. but that won't work for me. Most wood workers like nice flat surfaces to work from. our work benches always tend to be larger than the project we're working on. .
Frenchy,
If I were face jointing 18' boards, I would also look for the longest table I can get.
This is unusaul though.
Most cabinet makers rarely go beyond 72" long.
I'm thinking of making a sled for my 15" planer, like the one featured in FWW, but I don't like the rope he uses. So, I'm trying to figure out something else.
For table tops, an 8" jointer is too small and it's criminal to rip wide boards.
Jellyrug,
Amen to that!
(it's criminal to rip really wide boards.).
I can get boards up to 22 inches wide and the beautiful grain and wild patterns that result are worth the added hassle..
I have 917 bd.ft. of the most beautiful burl oak you've ever seen, just like the dash board of a Rolls Royce and the idea of ripping those 22 inch wide ten feet long boards into strips because I can't make them flat sends me nuts!
My question is what was done before machines? I mean sure you can hand plane things but really how flat can they get those? Several of the posters here seem to get all excited if their table saw is .05 off dead nuts true and some whine if their jointer has dip .0003 in it. (Forgetting that they sand more than that off )
I have a 6" jointer, and have come to the conclusion that there are no good 6" jointers. They are just too small.
I understand the issue of "tool creep", but usually there's a "sweet spot". For jointers, it's the 8" size. Going up to 12" is a big jump in price.
I recently took a hand tool class with a Lie-Nielsen rep. We had to take some roughsawn hardwoods [Jatoba and poplar] 1-1/4" thick, 6" wide and about 3' long, and make them into perfect boards 3/4 inch thick. Using a shooting board and 3 planes [#8 jointer, scrub, and a 4 1/2 smoother] . 12 of us and the intstructor all did our best. The instructors board was off in thickness by a max. of 0.015", the best students work was off by 0.019" and the worst was off by 0.055". The school where we took the class had just bought a $15,000 SCM planer and we ran a board through that. It measured a max. of 0.001" . You can get it very close by hand quite easily.
I mentioned the bed length mainly because that's one of the reason many people put the Powermatic 54A at the top of their list, and Grizzly has recently made improvements to their G0500 such that it competes better with the 54A. Guys like Matthew need a "bigger bed" that I do, LOL! (I own the Jet 6")forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I have always used the rule of thumb that the board shouldn't be more than twice the length of the table. On my old Sears jointer the bed is only 36". I've jointed a few boards over 6', but it's definitely a hit or miss proposition. In my next life, I won't settle for anything under 60".Regards,Ron
You and I are in total agreement on this subject, (length of board to bed length) for my next jointer I want one only slightly smaller than a aircraft carrier flight deck in length. (and it should be just about as wide!)
Here ya go!
http://www.walllumber.com/special/redhot.asp
Now that's a jointer!
Dear Matthew,
I like the way you worded that, "tool creep". It sounds so much better than my dilemma, "addiction"! In any event, I will stay out of the 6 vs 8 vs12 foray. I have a 54A that I upgraded with a Byrd "Shelix" cutterhead and I must say it is a sweet setup. I don't like to fiddle with the machine, I like them to do what I bought them for. The Byrd head eliminates setting knives and generally gives a better surface. I am in CT , if you would like to check it out, email me.Good Luck !John
I've got a PM 54 (sadly not a 54A) and have been very happy with it. There have been occasions where I wished I had an 8" or dreamed I had a 12" jointer, but the 6 has been adequate for most of what I've needed to do and I'd have a tough time fitting a bigger machine into my shop anyway.
I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.
You're looking at the Mercedes of 6" jointers, but for around the same money you can get an good 8" machine from Griz, Sunhill, Bridgewood, or Yorkcraft. There's alot of 7" boards in the world....
In my opinion you'll be spending too much for a jointer that, more often than not, will not meet your needs.
I have a 6" Delta jointer and I wish I had followed the advice I got here to buy an 8" instead.
Go for the 8 if you can. You won't regret it. Even if it's a couple hundred more now, later you'll be glad you did. Just think about when you're searching through a pile of nice cherry at the lumber yard and you need that last board to match and the only one is 7 1/2" wide. You'll have to waste a full 1 1/2". I've done this many times so I speak from experience. I had a Jet 6" and recently bought a used Grizzly 12". What a great difference.
There are more old drunkards than old doctors. Ben Franklin
I've thought about this. I would definitely prefer an 8" jointer, and I might end up doing that in the end.But with me there is a phenomenon called "tool creep." No matter what capacity my current tool has, as soon as I get used to it the next best one is necessary. It's built into the process -- the very fact of getting used to a tool of a certain capacity is what makes you want more. If you had never moved up to a good 6" jointer, you would never end up wanting the 8" jointer, and if you never moved up to the 8", you would never have wanted the 12" and so on and so on...If I get an 8" jointer, I'm sure I'll "need" a 12" in a year.For example, I am finally settling in with my 13" planer. But after going to a recent woodworking show, I suddenly can't stop myself from wanting a 15".Luckily, my budget injects limits into the process!
That's an awfully expensive way to do business, Matthew! Of course, those in your area who are waiting for you to seel the $800 tool you just bought last year must be pretty happy.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
Yes, I want to avoid tool creep as much as possible, especially since I am transitioning into a more professional woodworking situation.I have taken a look at the Yorkcraft 8" and Grizzly 8" jointers, but I believe I'll have to pass on them.Lately I've been burned in three large-machinery mail-order situations. First was a damaged Bosch SCMS, then a faulty 13" DeWalt planer. But the worst of all was a Grizzly drill press with a crushed top and missing parts. With the Bosch and the DeWalt, I was able to return the tool to Amazon. Not fun, but at least I broke even financially in the end. With the Grizzly, they won't take it back, so I'm stuck with a damaged drill press. Even if they did take it back, I would be out $60 for the original shipping costs. If I bought a machine with that kind of damage from a local dealer, it would go right back for a replacement. With Grizzly, they sent me repair parts, but I haven't used them because I would have to disantle the entire machine to fix the damage, voiding my warranty. Just ridiculous. The whole experience has left me rather bitter about Grizzly.So, I'm hesitant about ordering another big machine mail order, especially from Grizzly. Although I have no experience with Yorkcraft, I still worry about the whole mail-order scenario. With a local dealer, if there's a problem, I get the machine back to them and take another one in exchange. I can even check it out in the store if I need to. With Grizzly, and with Yorkcraft, I've got return-shipping headaches, I never get compensated for original shipping costs, and I lose at least a week waiting for shipping turnaround -- too much of a risk for me right now.
Edited 1/24/2005 12:28 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
Matthew,
That's simply not true about Grizzly! My jointer came and the crate was badly damaged. Upon opening up the crate I saw several broken pieces. I called Grizzley and told them and they offered to send a replacement immediately and I could return the damaged one in that crate. I took the other way and had them send me the busted parts and they were there the next day!!!!!
Go on line and several others here will tell you similar experiances.. I had a air cleaner I needed to return to them and they not only were willing to replace it but they told me the cheapest way to ship it and then sent me a bonus tool that was worth more than the cost of shipping!
"That's simply not true about Grizzly!" Careful, Frenchy -- it appears to be what happened to Matthew. You and I and many others have had completely different experiences, but we need to be respectful of whatever first-hand reports someone else might have. You really don't want to call him the L-word do you? :-)
I've heard one other nightmarish story about Grizzly, in the Southeast I believe. That's why I asked Matthew for more info. The devil is in the details as they say. And, there's always the possibility there's some nutcase gumming up the works.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Fair enoug Forest girl,
I'll write to Matthew and apologize, however as I read the rest of his posting to you it's appparent that there was much more to the story than stated.. I do know that my and several others that I personally know experiance has been excellant.. (trust me I'd complain like stink if I didn't get superb service)..
Matthew, I would really like to know the excrutiating details about exactly how that drill press fiasco came about. You experience is counter to everything I've heard and experienced with Grizzly's customer service, and if there's a "bad apple" somewhere in their barrel, I personally would like to find out where it is.
**********>>>Not at all trying to talk you out of buying from a local dealer -- I think that's a commendable way to do business, and whenever I can afford to, I do the same. Just would like to know how something that odd could happen with Grizzly.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Frenchy: I'd watch what you say on this one. I know what I experienced and I don't need anyone telling me it's not true.Forestgirl: You wanted to hear all the details? Well, OK.Before I start, I'll say that the way things have been going for me lately with major tool purchases, it wouldn't surprise me that I also got the only bad customer-service rep at Grizzly!Well, when I opened up the package of my drill press, I noticed that the top case was crushed and bent, and the hinges were practically broken. No way to bend it back to shape. This includes the cover that opens and closes as well as the sheet metal that houses the wheels and belt. Looking the machine over a bit more, I also noticed that the depth-level indicator was missing. I sent Grizzly an e-mail, and received a reference number. I then called Grizzly the next day and speaking with someone found out that my only option was to receive a replacement for the cover and the missing depth-level indicator. I was told flat-out that if I returned the machine I would not be refunded the $60 shipping cost of the damaged machine. So, what could I do? I agreed to take delivery of the replacement parts. The replacement parts arrived a couple of days later. That's when I realized that to remove the old cover and put the new one on, I would have to dismantle the entire belt mechanism, take apart lots of parts that connect to the motor, and who knows what else. Take a look at your own drill press some time and observe how much is connected to the cover and you'll see what I'm talking about. I started the process and realized this was way beyond what I wanted to do with a brand-new machine. So I decided to live with a crushed top. The depth-indicator they sent me kept falling off, so I just decided to forget about it. I guess it's not that necessary.One final thing I did not mention -- Grizzly was advertising a free drill-press vise with the machine. I did not get one with mine. When I asked the customer service rep about his, he said they discontinued the offer. I was hoping that maybe because of the fiasco they put me through, they might send it along anyway. No chance. Because the top is open, saw dust collects around the belts and has to be cleaned out fairly often. So every time I look at that drill press I get a little steamed up. I've kind of gotten used to it by now and use it as a lesson to myself not to buy mail order unless I have to.I will say that, other than the above complaints, the Grizzly machine has worked well.
Edited 1/24/2005 5:34 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
OK, so they offered to replace it, but the issue was who would pay for shipping(?)
'never have that problem, since I generally go to Grizzly and pick up the tool.
Was there any damage on the shipping crate? Grizzly is not alone in stating that you must file for any shipping damage with the freight company.
Finally, did you pay via credit card? All mail-order purchases should *only* be paid for by credit card: not by check, and not by debit card. Federal law gives you alot of rights to dispute charges when you pay by CC, that are not available to you when you use other methods.
Barry,
Not exactly. Here's an analogy:
You go to a store and buy a $1,200 table saw. The tax is $60. You take the saw home and find out it is defective. You go back to the store to return it. They agree to take back the saw and refund the $1,200 but say they won't refund your $60 tax. Your option is to take some replacement parts and fix the saw yourself. Well, you're not happy about it, but you don't want to throw away $60, so you decide to take your lumps, keep the saw, and try to fix it yourself. You then find out that fixing the saw yourself is a huge job, so you decide not to do it.That's the situation I had with Grizzly, only I paid $60 shipping on a $200 item instead of a $1,200 item! In the end, what's the difference whether it's called shipping or tax?
Edited 1/24/2005 8:51 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
Why would you not get the tax back? The store did not earn any revenue so why should they collect tax? I live in Canada and maybe it is different here but if I return something I get everything back.
Edited 1/24/2005 8:55 pm ET by Peter36
Peter,
I was drawing an analogy. Of course you would get the tax back if you returned an item. My point is this: by not returning my $60 shipping charge, Grizzly is doing the same thing as a store not refunding the tax on a returned item.
Here's an analogy:You go to a store and buy a $1,200 table saw. The tax is $60. You take the saw home and find out it is defective. You go back to the store to return it. They agree to take back the saw and refund the $1,200 but say they won't refund your $60 tax.
At which point, I would have disputed the $60 with the credit card company.
Barry,
Of course I could fight on the phone with Grizzly, ask to speak with a manager, talk to the president, write letters, call the credit-card company and ask them to deny the charges, etc. Even if I did get grizzly to agree to refund the shipping charge, I still have an ordeal with UPS getting the machine back to Grizzly. The big picture is that buying mail order, in this case, created many unnecessary headaches.If I buy from a local vendor, I simply return the tool -- case closed.Maybe I'm just going through an unusually unlucky period. Who knows. For now, however, I'll only mail order major machinery with companies that have been good -- like with Woodpecker and Festool. And I will avoid mail ordering major machinery with companies that have caused headaches -- like Amazon and Grizzly.
I understand. I've had good luck mail order with Amazon; even got my Unisaw from them.
OTOH, I'll never fly on America West Airlines again. ;) 'only takes a few really bad experiences to color your opinion of a company.
Matthew,
Please read my experiance with buying local.. Delta used to be a very reputable company, not anymore.. I bought a bench top planner from Home Depot and the instructions said for me to NOT return it to the store.. so I called Delta instead and they dragged their feet so long that when I finally was fed up with Delta and tried to bring it back I no longer had the original carton. Home Depot wouldn't take it back!) I can see their point, after all how did they know I didn't just use it for one project (I kept it over two months trying to get Delta to solve the problem) and return it..
The trouble with woodshafters er crafters and the contractors table saw is much more involved but in the end they were no help whatsoever! I wish I could have returned the saw, but ,.... Buying local has caused me nothing but grief while Grizzly has been great,..
You mileage may vary,.... objects in the mirror are closer than they appear,.... close cover before striking,..... <G>
"I can see their point, after all how did they know I didn't just use it for one project (I kept it over two months trying to get Delta to solve the problem) and return it.."I work in the hardware section of an HD and you would be surprised (then again, maybe not) at the number of people who return heavily used tools within the standard 30 days. I can tell that they used it for a particular project and, now that they no longer have a need for it, return it and get their money back. Sort of like a rental centre but without paying the rent! However, if the item clearly has a defect or hasn't been used we can usually reach some sort of arrangement with the customer.At one point a few months back we initiated a local policy that the very popular Porter-Cable compressor kits would be returnable only if they had not been used. We were getting back two or three a week covered in drywall dust or other junk, and with nailers that looked like they had been dragged behind the car on the way back to the store. Usually the customer would say something like "It doesn't meet my needs" or "it doesn't have enough power" or simply "I've changed my mind". And they always wanted their money back...never wanting to try another compressor. We p*****d a few guys off, but the returns have dropped to almost zero for compressor kits. And in case you're wondering, sales haven't dropped off as a result.I should mention that, as far as I know, this is only done at my particular store. It certainly isn't a common practice at any other HD's that I know of, but our experience has been noted.Regards,Ron
Matthew,
I agree, it IS a pain to deal with returns. The x-y-z table on my new Grizzly horizontal boring machine is defective. They offered to ship new parts but it looks like a bad casting - the guts of the thing - and some of the shafts are machine-pressed. So they said, "Gosh we are really sorry, please crate up the table and send it back; we will deduct the shipping charge from the credit card you used to pay for the tool and ship you a new one at no charge". Big hassle, but a) the attitude is great (no cost, no questions asked) and b) the tool costs around $1K less than the next closest thing out there, so I can live with a little hassle (I am not trying to make a living with these tools).
Regarding the G0500 jointer - arrived in excellent condition, set up reasonably quicky and stays true. And yes, I've run across a bunch of boards already that need the 8".
Good luck!
Wayne
Matthew,
I should have been more diplomatic in my reply to you, I apologize..
May I suggest you recontact Grizzly and see if they can provide you with a solution that satisfies you? They've always gone the extra mile for me. Try writting to the president Mr. Bulolia directly.
Somehow a hand written letter seems to have more impact..
let me share my experiance with buying a delta table saw (contractor saw) from Woodcrafters. a local company.. I'll avoid most of the details since I 've gone into them so many times already..
Bought a saw and it would never stay in alignment. other than telling me how to align it they wouldn't take it back for exchange. In the end I gave it away to my nephew, that's right gave it away! I had similar problems with a grinder woodcrafters sold me to sharpen the lathe gouges I bought from them (that I sold for half it's original cost) I had a similar experiance with a Delta bench top planer that I bought from home depot.
I've learned that unless the dealer is extremely flexible and willing warrantees mean very little if the item has been used and isn't in the orignal box..
Frenchy,
Not a problem. I was actually trying to be kind of comic in my post to you, but because I am unhappy about the situation it came out more bitter than funny.I'm actually trying to just forget the Grizzly situation. As I said, the drill press, with it's crushed top, does perform fine. I also am aware that lots of other people whose opinion I respect, like Forestgirl, really like grizzly tools. I just had a bad few months with tools I guess!On the bright side, I bought several Festool tools over the past few months, and they have all been wonderful!
"...the way things have been going for me lately with major tool purchases, it wouldn't surprise me that I also got the only bad customer-service rep at Grizzly!" Jeeeeez Loueeeeze, no kidding, Matthew!!
Your tool stars have definitely been misaligned the last few months! Perhaps the great Festool experiences indicate it's a passing condition. I have to say, I would have gone over that dude's head big-time, but then I undoubtedly have more time on my hands than you do, and I am very, very persistent when I decide to take on a bozo like that. (I once got a campus cop kicked out of his cushy counter job at UC Davis, out into the cold fog of winter writing parking tickets -- he was extremely rude to one of our international students, and had the misfortune of my presence in line behind his victim. I was an employee of the university also, and I complained to the Chief of Police, explaining that it was the only time I had ever been embarrased to be working there. Ooooopsie! Hit the pavement, dude.)
Onward and upward, Matthew, you'll probably win the lottery next month to make up for all the grief, LOL!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
Looks like you and I are on the same schedule tonight...Yes, my Festool experiences have more than made up for the Grizzly experience. Actually, my Festools and my Incra router system have been absolute pleasures.If I win the lottery, I'll be able to have all the "tool creep" I want! Actually, if I win the lottery, I'll buy you any Grizzly tool of your choice.
"...if I win the lottery, I'll buy you any Grizzly tool of your choice." Ooooooo, cool! Do you ever buy tickets? That's my downfall -- just never buy the darned things, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Matthew,
My two cents:
A) Forty+ people can't be wrong - get the 8" - you will not regret it. I have the Yorkcraft 6", and I love it, but bought it due to those old financial limitations. I envy not just the wider surface but the longer table length - you'll struggle a lot less holding a board in place than with a 6".
B) The Yorkcraft 6" and 8" jointers are the Delta X5 jointers - same manufacturers, same design, same everything, except the Yorkcraft comes with a mobile base included and a lever infeed adjustment, while the Delta comes with a handwheel adjustment but no mobile base, unless you catch a special.
C) Wilke Machinery, the exclusive US distributor for Yorkcraft, has an outstanding service team. They stand behind their product. That's really important when you get to the inevitable questions or issues.
Hope this helps,
Mitch
Mitch,
Thanks for the tip about the Yorkcraft. I've received a few messages off-line from people saying the same thing about the quality of the Yorkcraft. And I have read reviews that say that the Yorkcraft is the same as the Delta.I've got a couple of big projects up ahead and I'd love to have a new jointer to help me tackle them successfully. I'm going to consider everything people have told me and make a decision over the next day or so about which one to get.
Matthew,
My pleasure. Let me know if you need any additional info about the Yorkcraft.
P.S. - I SO want a 15" planer...Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Mitch,
I looked into the Yorkcraft, but my pulse began racing when I found out that it costs over $200 to ship it. Yes, $200 to ship it.I really believe that people need to think of shipping as part of the base price of a machine. Too many companies get away with separating the two, which is a head game. But I have to say, before Wilke, I've never been quoted a shipping price 60% of the machine cost!Here's a breakdown of the jointers I'm considering, with tax and/or shipping figured in. Listed from most to least expensive:Powermatic 54A:
Base: $780 -- Real Cost: $820Grizzly G1182ZXHW:
Base: $555 -- Real Cost: $613Delta 37-275X:
Base: $580 -- Real Cost: $610Yorkcraft YC-6J:
Base: $339 -- Real Cost: $540Ridgid JP0610:
Base: $340 -- Real Cost: $357Except for the Powermatic, my research so far indicates that there is not too much difference between the above machines. Every time I see an advantage for one, another has a different advantage, but lacks the advantange of the first one, and on and on. Just based on feasability, I am more likely to "experiment" with the Ridgid and see what happens. If I end up liking the Ridgid, then I get a jointer with less hassle. If not, it's relatively easy to bring it back and go to the next one. I'm not interested, at least right now, in going that route with Grizzly or Yorkcraft.
Please let us know how it is
Matthew,
I absolutely agree with you about the need to factor shipping into the equation when comparing the true, all-in prices of the machinery you're seeking. Two other things:
I just happen to be lucky enough to live within 2 hours of Wilke, so paying $18 tax plus some gas vs. $90 shipping was a no-brainer for me.
The other thing to consider, although it probably wouldn't change things much, is that as you go up in price (say, from a 6" jointer to an 8"), the shipping cost will only be nominally higher, and therefore a lower proportion of the base price.
All that said, Ridgid tends to be a reliable, quality brand, and I'd likely make the same decision you're making.
I'm also going to contact Wilke and let them know how much business they're losing due to the shipping costs.
Finally, I don't know where you live, but here's the schedule for the upcoming Woodworker's Shows. I'd be surprised if Wilke didn't have a booth and could sell you a machine right there. But I'll check on that and get back to you.
February 4-6
CHICAGO Donald Stephens Convention Center
February 11-13
ST. LOUIS Gateway Center
February 18-20
CHANTILLY Dulles Expo Center
February 25-27
MILWAUKEE Wisconsin Exposition Center at Fair Park
March 4-6
KANSAS CITY Overland Park International Trade Center
March 11-13
ORLANDO Osceola Heritage Park
March 18-20
CHARLOTTE Merchandise Mart
March 25-27
Holiday
April 1-3
HOUSTON Reliant Park
April 8-10
SEATTLE/TACOMA Tacoma Dome
April 15-17
SACRAMENTO Cal Expo
April 22-24
SANTA CLARA
Good luck,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Mitch,I live in the Northeast, and for whatever reason we don't seem to have a lot of good woodworking shows up here. However, we can cross the border into Canada where there are lots of good ones. I've often gone up into Ontario for woodworking shows, and I've even bought machines there. When the $USD was stronger, I was able to get amazing deals! These days, the deals are not so great, but it's still worth it.
"I live in the Northeast, and for whatever reason we don't seem to have a lot of good woodworking shows up here."
I live in the Northeast as well, and agree with you. Why do you suppose that is?
Mark,
I don't know the answer to this question, but I wish I did. Every year, I look at the listings of the various wood shows, and they are always in just about every other region of the country except the Northeast. There must be some answer we are not seeing here, because there are lots and lots of woodworkers in this Northest. In fact, some of the most famous woodworkers, and woodworking styles, are from the Northeast.
Matthew, I think what drives the shows is how much said woodworkers spend at the shows. Best I can tell, they must need a huge response to justify each show, because we no longer get one to ourselves in Seattle. They have what they call the "Seattle/Tacoma Show" in Tacoma. I'm sure the cost is significantly lower holding it in Tacoma, and they figure serious Seattleites will drive the 1/2 hour or so. Unfortunately, for me, it turns it from a "jump on the ferry and walk" process to a "drive for an hour-and-a-half" process.
I suspect that internet shopping has quite negatively affected the profitability of these shows.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie,
Never having been to a show, is my assumption that you can buy heavy power tools right there correct? If so, and you needed/wanted one, it might be worth 3 hours R/T to avoid the shipping and probably get a discount on top of it. Let me know.
Regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Hi Mitch. My experience has been with the smaller stuff that I can tote back to the ferry. There are bargains to be had for sure, especially if you buy the floor or demo model and pick it up on the last day of the show. I'm not sure there are significant regular show discounts on the bigger stuff, but really can't say for sure. Lots of good deals on clamps, saw blades and other smaller stuff such as the GripTites I like so much. Rockler, Woodcraft, etc., have show specials. The ability to pick up, rather than pay for delivery is certainly a factor for many people. There may be some bargaining opportunities also.
One recent downside that's been mentioned by several people here is the decreased participation of some of the power tool companies. Their local retailers must have to absorb the cost of the show (booth costs, transportation, salesmen's wages, etc.) and if they don't make enough sales to justify the cost, they eventually bale out.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG,
Wow, it's surprising that the power tool companies are backing off - I would think it would be one of the best ways to show off their stuff, especially the new "hot" tools, and generate that impulse-buying, gotta-have-that urge...Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Unfortunately for them, most people are locked into "Gotta have that at the cheapest price I can find" urge. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Mitch. I have been to quite a few shows. I have found that you cannot buy the heavy machinery right there, other than the actual demo ones. They will typically have the demo one and advertise their show deal on it. Whoever buys the demo model usually has to wait until the end of the weekend to pick it up so they can still advertise with it. If you call the vendor at their store you can find out what the show deal is on a particular item and get it for that cost. So if you have any vendors in the area that attend a show just call them up. Peter
Thanks, Peter, despite the bad news. Are there ever any deals w/ respect to discounts that would offset shipping costs or free shipping if you paid for the machine at the show?Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Don't give up completely, Mitch. I recall seeing more than one burly male pushing a big cart with boxed cast iron atop.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
"Don't give up completely, Mitch. I recall seeing more than one burly male pushing a big cart with boxed cast iron atop."
We prefer "manly man" to "burly male." :-)Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
oooops, sorry!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Well, I'm still going to speak with Wilke - they probably don't realize how much they're losing. If you wouldn't mind say, Matthew and Mark, what cities do you live in?Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Hi Matthew,
I just got off the phone with Curtis Wilke, and told him how much business he was losing because of his freight charges. He agreed that it's an issue, and that they've struggled a lot with it. He says he's hammered the common carriers as low as he can for a dealer who's not Sears or HD or Lowes...
But he did say one thing that was interesting. When I mentioned $200 as the shipping cost, he almost dropped the phone. He says his average shipping cost, including to the Northeast, is $100. He also said that if you lived on Martha's Vineyard or Shelter Island or some other hard-to-get-to place that involved maybe a ferry or some other extra cost, the shipping could be higher.
So, I don't know where in the Northeast you live, but if you're in a "normal" area, and certainly if you're within 200 miles of York, PA, shipping shouldn't exceed $100 according to Wilke. If that's your situation, you may want to call back for another quote.
Finally, they've tossed around the idea of opening a distribution center/pickup point that might make the freight less of an issue, but they're not sure how much saving they'd ultimately be able to pass on. We'll see.
Anyway, I hope that helps. Regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
mvac,
Well, I'll run it through again to see what happens. Actually, the shipping on the Bridgewood machines is even higher.
Thanks for checking on this!
Matt
I bought the 54A about 3 yrs ago, and it is a very good machine. It is dead on once you get it dialed in, and the tables on it are plenty long enough to joint 10' boards.
Now, after spending about $750 on the machine, do I wish that I had shelled out another $450-500 to get another 2"? No. But, I would have shelled out another $7-800 to get a 12" machine? Perhaps.
I cruise the woodworking machines on Ebay regularly, and there are good deals on used big machines 12" and up. The problem becomes the shipping. I have not come across the right machine in the right place to make it cost efficient.
You might ask yourself what kinds of things you like to build? Do you do a lot of wide panels in casework, or solid table tops? How often do you really need to use a board that is wider than 6"? In the event that I need to use a wide board, I will rip it to about 5 1/2", face joint it, thickness it, and then glue it back together.
Back to the point at hand--the 54A is great for about 90% of my needs, and I don't think there is a better 6" jointer on the market, price not withstanding.
Peter
jpswoodworking.com
Well, just to add another item to the list, I recently found out about a slightly used Shop Fox 6" jointer which I could obtain for $500 final price (with my transportation).
Has anybody had any experience with Shop Fox tools?
I know their bench-top mortiser is highly rated, but I haven't seen much about their jointers. The machine looks solid, though, and it has the pedestal-mounted power switch, which I like.
Opinions welcome...
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