I am looking to buy a benchtop mortiser in the $250 range. I have looked at the Shop Fox 1671 and Delta’s newest (14-651) machine.
In person, the Delta seems like the better machine, but there are not many reviews out there.
Review wise, the Shop Fox machine seems to be well liked, but in person the fence and base seem to be poorly made where the Delta feels solid and easily adjustable.
Any help or advice would be great.
Thank You,
Fred
Replies
Fred,
I have the Jet Unit which I got for $200 on deal. It works great with no problems. My only minor complaint is the hold down mechanism. It could be easier to use with a more secure locking mechanism. I did not consider the Delta because it was made in China. This is just a personal gripe (I prefer USA or Tiawan).
Good luck with your purchase.
enfrim
Sounds like the Delta model is the new one, yes? Prior to the Delta upgrade, the Shop Fox was winning mortise contests hands-down, due in major part to the better quality fence and hold-down. I'm eager, now, to see the new Delta. Maybe someone here has it in their shop!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl:
Yes, the 14-651 is Delta's newest mortiser. It looks and feels impressive in the store, but of course WW will not like me fire it up for a test.
The base is large and heavy. The fence and hold down seem well designed and easily adjustable. I use the word "seem..." because you never know until you use the machine. My last experience with Delta was not a good one, and because of that, I am Actually trying to talk myself out of the Delta, even though the thing "seems" to be designed very well.
Hopefully someone on the Knots is using the machine.
Fred
I was given a Reliant benchtop mortiser. It had many drawbacks and I can suggest some issues to look at on the machines:
1. The hold-down on the reliant was designed by someone who certainly had no idea what the machine did. I've cut and ground on it until I can hold down parts between it and a homemade one made to supplement it. Look at the hold-down and think about the range of thicknesses and widths that it can handle. Think especially about mortises in the middle of a wide board (the fence travel is important here also!)
2. The column on the Reliant is not stiff enough and tilts towards the back as you press the chisel down. If you reverse the board and cut the mortises as mirror images, they angle a few degrees in opposite directions and the doors are badly warped. The foot print of the column on the base determines the rigidity as the cantelivered bit presses down on the wood. The wider front to back, the more rigid. Round columns aren't very good. Rectangular with the long dimension running front to back will be best. I've added ground washers to the column attachment and I slide the workpiece along the bed to cut a second mortise instead of flipping it. This way, all the mortises are off of a right angle by the same amount and the deviation from a right angle doesn't make much difference.
3. Does the feed handle ratchet so you can push the bit down and lift the handle again without raising the bit? The Reliant handle can hit the workpiece if it's wide limiting the depth of the mortise.
4. There should be an "up" stop and a "down" stop for the travel. Mine goes all the way to the top when you let go necessitating a full stroke to bring the bit back down for the next cut. I put blocks of wood in the way so the head can't return all the way up between cuts.
5. Does the fence stay parallel to the side of the bit when you move it? If not, you'll have to readjust the bit by turning it slightly whenever you move the fence.
All of that said, I use the mortiser for all my mortises and wouldn't like to do without it. The floor mounted Powermatic looks awesome - if I only had more floor and more money!
Fred1962
I have seen the new Delta, but have not used it. Tom F. has one and likes it. I have the SF and love it. I chose it over all the competition for several reasons. Here are the pros and cons from my prespective.
All BT's come up short on hold-downs. The General has the best forward to rear hold down. I liked that feature on it as it is similar to the PM 719 floor model. All BT's require tweaking the hold downs to get solid performance. The General and SF have long plunge levers. All the others can be corrected by adding a pipe over the existing one. You get more leverage and that means less effort on your part.
Here's where I think the Fox shines. Double columns are much beefier than the competion. The head rotates off the table so you can handle some long pieces of stock. The shocks in the rear have 3 height positions that they can be set in. This gives it the capacities of a floor model. You have excess to the chuck from both sides. It weights a ton so if attached to something there is no vibration.
Tweaked, it can be made to come closer to a floor model than it's competition. I added a forward to rear hold down. I added an over-head hold-down. I permanently mounted it to a stationary cabinet. I added a phenolic sub-face to the fence. I threw away the table and made one from phenolic.
What don't I like? The Fox runs at 3450 rpm. I prefer 1750 rpm, but have no actual problems with the higher speed by slowing the feed rate. Minor complaint. I wish it had a sliding table, but no BT does. One can be made as I have thought about it. At this point I don't need the speed that is attained by that feature. If I did, I would opt for the PM 719.
Good luck with your decision...
sarge..jt
I have the Jet and am satisfied at this point (its low speed is a good idea), but I would suggest you first take a look at this Benchtop Mortiser Review from American Woodworker. It pinpoints the major problem (hold down) with all benchtop mortisers and gives tips on how to fix it.
Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township
Thanks to all. I think I am going to buy the Delta. I will post a review after I use it a few times.
Thanks again,
Fred
I just bought the new Delta about two months ago and have done 40 mortices on a Craftsman style bed. The machine worked fine, the bit and chisle were sharp and cut well, I especially like the moveable fence. I had two 60" long boards with 20 mortices each, I put them on the base with a keeper board to keep them against the fence and just slide the board to the next location without any problems. I also did 4 mortices, 5/8 x 5 x 3/4 and no problems. It worked right out of the box.
larry
After looking at the Delta and Jet side-by-side, the jet was the hands down winner. I bought it and use it all the time. I have no complaints what so ever other than bolting it to a bench that's bolted to the floor. hahahahaha... getting tippsy here!!
Which model Delta did you compare to the Jet?
Fred
RJT'S RESPONSE SAYS IT ALL
Go for the Delta. You can get a good price on Amazon.com. It also comes with 4 mortises. I believe I only paid...$212.00?? Amazon has free shipping too.......
Good luck
A note to add, Jeff: When buying from Amazon at a time that's close to a model changeover, it's a good idea to double-check and make sure it's the newer model they're selling. A couple of posters in the past have gotten discontinued models at Amazon, and not been real happy about it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jeff:
Forestgirl is right. The model that I am considering is the Delta 14-651, which is listed on Amazon for $249. I had it narrowed down to two (Shop Fox & Delta 14-651), but people really seem to like the Jet. I think I am going to back to WW and have another look at the Jet.
Everyone loves the Shop Fox, but to me the new Delta 14-651 seems like a better machine. I do not want to buy junk, so I am just going to take my time. I hope a couple more woodworkers (who actually own it the Delta 14-651) will post on it.
Thanks to all,
Fred
"...people really seem to like the Jet." But have they compared it with the new model of Delta. (Sorry, just trying to be difficult, LOL!)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hey, stop that - I am indecisive as it is. I have had the money since my birthday in April. My wife can't believe that I have not spent the money yet. ...all in due time. Just like woodworking. Grow the tree - dry the wood - draw a plan - cut the wood - glue the wood - finish the wood. ...all in due time.
Fred
I own the JET and have used it a lot. I haven't used the Shop Fox or the new model Delta but I would trade my Jet for either one of them. The Jet works but it's a long way from perfect. Maybe you have to go to the PM or one of the other floor models to get a decent hold down, adequate fence,etc. but every one that I know with the Shop Fox has been very happy with it and the new Delta looks like a significant improvement over their previous model.
My $.02
Jim
Fred,
I've been out of town and am just catching up on the group. As Sarge said, I have the newer Delta and it is really well done. The cast iron table and large fence in my opinion make it the best on the market today. It cuts smoothly and has a real nice pinion making the cuts easy. Sarge has had great success with his ShopFox. I have not used any other so I cannot say.
I would buy it from Woodworkers Warehouse though. I have heard a lot of people say that the heavier stuff from amazon and the like arrives damaged. If you open a WW charge account you will get 10% off you first purchase and they will meet any price including internet sales.
Good luck!
TDF
Edited 6/29/2003 10:12:36 PM ET by Tom Ferreira
Tom:
Thanks for your help. It's good to hear from someone who owns the machine. The Delta just feels like a better machine, but again my last experience with Delta was not a great one. I am going to give them another chance with this one.
Also, I am with you 100% on shipping heavy items from Amazon. Rick, down at my local WW, replaces broken buttons, or missing parts immediately with no questions asked.
I am going to stay away from the credit card though - way too many cool toys in that store.
Again, Thanks to all
Fred
Greetings,
I bought the NEW Delta mortiser a few months ago. I really like it. It is heavy and solid. More substantial than the Jet. The rack and pinion fence is useful, it eliminates tapping the fence for fine adjustments. The chisels work well in alder and red oak. I am happy with it.
Good luck,
nolan
I've got the Delta 14-651 and am very happy with it. Did the old drill press add-on for a couple of years before buying a dedicated machine, and am happy I did.
The tool is easy to tune, and the fence works really well. I've had no problems with the hold down. All my work is with cherry, and most of my mortises are for door and cabinet panels. I was in full production mode after only a few practice cuts.
Regarding Delta vs. Jet: I've been a Delta guy for years...Unisaw, 14" bandsaw, floor standing drill press, lathe, planer, drum sander, and so on. My last two tool purchases have been for Jet, though: a 15" planer that I got for a steal from someone who was moving (tool never even set up, and I got it for half the best price I could find), and a new dust collection system. I had previously bought a 6" Jet jointer.
My overall impression is that Delta tools are better made and have better documentation. Set-up is much easier, and minimal tuning is required "out of the box" However, they're behind the times relative to Jet's designs. Both the jointer and dust collection system were bought because Delta didn't have anything equivalent to Jet's offering. They did come up with a comparable jointer just a couple of months after I bought the Jet, but the dust collection systems from Delta just don't measure up in terms of dust removal and price.
The Jet stuff works fine, but given the choice, I'd rather buy from Delta. Maybe it's 'cause white shows dirt too much...
Both the Jet and Delta 651 permit rotation of the column 180 degrees to allow the cutting of mortices off of the table. I would appreciate it if those who have experience with this feature on either machine could comment of the ease or difficulty of the mechanics involved in the rotation procedure. Thanks. Jim
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