Hi Folks,
I think I’ve only written on here once…So allow me to introduce myself. I’m a woodworking headcase from New England. I say headcase because I’m all over the map with my woodworking. I’ve made a living as a violinmaker for the last ten years, but have always been an amatuer furniture maker as well. Now that the economy has tanked, I’m actually selling more furniture, built-ins, chairs, etc than violins!
In addition, I’ve recently been working with a friend of mine who makes custom staircases and handrails – spirals, ellipses, etc…So I’m branching out, learning lots about that.
Anyway, just thought I’d say hello and thank you all ahead of time for sharing your wisdom and insights.
Now, to my question…finally. I bought the 5 hp Sawstop cabinet saw (love it) and am ready for a new/better blade. I understand I can’t use a blade that has paint on it…What blade would you recommend? I have read the FWW article which seemed to point me toward the Forrest 2 combination blade. Any thoughts?
BTW I’ve been using the sawstop brand blade since it did a decent enough job. Its kerf measures at .112 or so. I like the idea of using a thin kerf blade even though I have plenty of power (5hp).
Sorry for the long post. Thanks again
Zigs
Replies
Welcome aboard. Sounds like a very interesting array of WW-ing skills.
I'm a big fan of the Forrest line. Great blades and they also do a wonderful job of sharpening when it comes to that time in the blade's life. I use the WWII and, so long as the blade is sharp & clean, I don't find the thin kerf a problem even tho' I don't use stiffeners.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
Hi Zigs! I've run a lot of blades and think the Forrest WWII is an excellent general purpose blade, but I'll point out that Forrest has no fairy dust that elevates their blade to mythical status. Blade differences are due to design configuration, tooth geometry, materials, and manufacturing techniques, so I try to look past the brand and buy the actual blade design. There are several excellent general purpose blades that are made with top grade materials with high precision manufacturing techiques...Forrest WWII 30T and 40T, Ridge Carbide TS2000, Tenryu Gold Medal, DeWalt/Delta 7657, Infinity Combomax, Infinity General 010-040, Freud LU72M010, DeWalt/Delta 7640, Amana Prestige, Freud LU84M010, Tenryu RS25550. All of these have a metallic finish, not painted. You should have no problem spinning full kerf blades, but a good TK or mid-kerf will work well too. General purpose and combo type blades are a performance compromise of sorts by design...they excel in versatility, but not typically any one particular type cut. Find a good deal on a couple and keep a spare.
The 40T Forrest WWII is the industry gold standard by which most other GP/combo blades are measured. Versatile, clean cutting, very well made, made in the USA, and is available in thin or full kerf. It's also available in a 30T configuration.
The 30T Forrest WWII has different strengths than the 40T WWII, but is equally versatile and capable in a different range that leans toward thicker woods. It employs the same geometry the 40T WWII, with an ATB grind, and 20° hook. It will hang with many of the 24T rippers in thick stock, while offering a significantly cleaner cut. The cut quality is remarkably close to the 40T and 50T GP blades. Depending on what you cut, the 30T WWII can make a lot of sense as a primary blade because of its wider operating range. It cuts in the range of "acceptable" to "good" in most crosscut and ply situations, but isn't the best of the general purpose blade in that regard. It's also an excellent compliment to a good 60T or 80T Hi-ATB crosscut blade. Available in standard 0.125" kerf or 0.100 thin kerf.
The 50T Infinity Combomax is the best overall 50 tooth combination blade I've tried to this point. This is an extraordinarily well made blade that uses a unique ATB/R configuration that features a chamfered raker instead of the traditional flat top raker. It has very low tearout for this class of blade, and is particularly good in sheetgoods, while maintaining good ripping abilities.
Infinity's "General" 010-040 is their non-coated 40T GP blade that's very similar to the WWII. Made to world class standards and is an excellent all around full kerf blade. This is the predecessor to their new coated "Super General" 40T Hi-ATB blade.
The Ridge Carbide TS2000 is every bit the equal of the 40T WWII, and is even quite close in geometry and workmanship IMHO. Like the WWII, it's available in two kerf widths, and sports teeth that the manufacture claims are 35% thicker than their competition.
The Tenryu Gold Medal is top shelf 40T GP blade made to world class Japanese standards. It's only available in one unique kerf width of 0.111".
The Tenryu RS25550 is a relatively low cost upper level performer. It uses a traditional 50T ATB/R combination configuration with a 15° rake, in a 0.126" full kerf width.
The DeWalt DW7657 is a relatively low cost dark horse in this group. At < $50, cutting performance is on par with the other top blades. Note that this blade was part of the DW series 60 line, but is now also available as the Delta 35-7657...often seen in the $40 range. Kerf width is 0.118"...not quite full, but thicker than most TK's.
The DeWalt DW7640 (also the Delta 35-7640) is an excellent standard 50T ATB/R configuration. Like the DW7657, kerf width is 0.118". Often available at excellent prices, and holds it's own against any.
The Oshlun line doesn't quite hang with these blades in absolute performance, but is worth some consideration as a bargain blade that does a surprisingly good job for the price. Full kerf only. Holbren has the 40T for ~ $25.
Edited 6/10/2009 9:40 am ET by Knotscott
Thanks for the info fellas. Knotscott, I believe you are due a royalty check on the fantastic book you have written!
My local woodworking store has one of the Tenryu Gold Medal blades for $89. It's a medium kerf, like my sawstop's... I think I'll give that a go. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again guys!
Zigs
You're welcome. The Gold Medal is a real nice blade, and happens to be almost exactly the same thickness as the stock blade. $89 is a pretty good price too....looking forward to that royalty check!
Edited 6/10/2009 5:01 pm ET by Knotscott
The Tenryu is a excellent blade and I will be surprised if you don't like it. It is quiet, has excellent cut quality and when the wood hits the blade it just cuts with almost no resistance. It is a strange phenomenon that you just have to experience.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.
Listen carefully to Scott (Knotscott) Zigs.. he has tested more blades from his own curiousity in two years than I have used in 38. I won't bother to reccomend as it would only be a basic repeat of what Scott has mentioned to you.
Welcome and good luck with your quest...
Sarge..
Ditto to the advice to read and heed Knotscott's post. With regard to the Freud blades, keep in mind that many you see, say at Amazon, that have the red Teflon coating will also have a plain model with no coating. They have a PDF copy of their Saw Blade Mini-Catalog online. There is also an Industrial Blade pamphlet here.
Hi FG - Your post got me to thinking about the coatings. The new Infinity Super General 010-044 has a coating, but the coating doesn't cover the area of the blade that contacts the flange...so I'm thinking that one might be fine on a Saw Stop. http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/infinitysupergeneral/infinitysupergeneral1.jpgYour post also got me thinking about Freud's clear ICE coating whicm comes on many of their "uncoated" blades...as in, any that don't have the red Permashield coating. We may need Charles M to answer this question, but others may know too... does a clear coating like the "ICE" interfere with the Saw Stop safety feature?
Edited 6/10/2009 10:28 pm ET by Knotscott
"does a clear coating like the "ICE" interfere with the Saw Stop safety feature?" The first place I'd go for a definitive answer would be the SawStop company.
Personally, I was unaware that coatings caused a problem with the SS mechanism, but now that you mention it....... I'll drop Charles a line and see if he'll poke his head in and tell us what his take is.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It ocurrs to me there's a way to test if the Sawstop brake would be tripped: I could install a blade, turn the machine (computer) to its 'on' position (NOT running), and just touch the blade with my finger. A little red light flashes on the control panel to notify the user that, had the blade been moving, it would have tripped when touched... I'm assuming that a coated blade, such as the Freud would prevent or significantly delay the brake mechanism from firing.
Interesting thoughts, thanks folks. I'll let you know how I like the new blade.
Zigs
Sawstop recommends against painted saw blades, not against coated blades. The difference as I understand it is that paint acts as an insulator while our coatings do not. Freud's PermaSHIELD coating is PTFE based with tiny aluminum whiskers added and our I.C.E. coating is a chrome alloy plating.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
...Straight from the horses mouth! Thanks for edumicating us Charles!
We use Freud coated blades almost 100% of the time. The light program you referred to gives us the OK every time.
Saw Stop is truly a fine saw. We also have the 5 hp.Ron in Peabody
"The light program you referred to gives us the OK every time." Thinking about this thread yesterday, wondering if the coating might simply add a couple milliseconds to the response time of the brake-and-drop system. If that's what happens, how much more damage would one's finger/hand suffer compared to contact with a non-coated blade? I'm sure they have test data on this topic.....forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"...wondering if the coating might simply add a couple milliseconds to the response time of the brake-and-drop system."
Electrons move at pretty near the speed of light. A nanosecond or two, maybe, but not milliseconds.
-Steve
Only Sawstop will be able to tell you, but I suspect that the contact between the arbor and the hole in the blade is what counts. Could be wrong.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Zigs,
Your idea may or may not work. It would depend on the moisture content being read by the computer. Lets say you were to touch your fingernail to one of the saw teeth, it most likely will not trip the computer. BUT once the blade has remover the nail and is into the nail bed the computer will sense the moisture, and the safety will trip!
Taigert
Zigs,
The Sawstop table saw has been in my workshop for four years and it has sawed a great deal of lumber in that time. It is a five horse model and I've made some modifications over the years to get more performance.
The type of work I do requires the ripping of a lot of oak planks. The Freud glue line rip is used for that and it seems to work better for ripping than the the other blades I've used. I use the Freud Fusion general purpose, rip blade, and plastic cutting blade. Part of the time I use a WWII blade which gives good results. I once triggered the Sawstop with a coated Freud blade on it and the stopping mechanism works just fine with that blade on it.
Moksha
Thanks Moksha. This is all good info. The truth is, having this saw has made me think about sawblades alot more. I used to have a Delta saw that I'd periodically put various blades in without a lot of thought to performance. I just used a combo blade.
But now that I'm using the tablesaw alot more (furniture, built-ins, etc) I'm getting a bit more finnicky about the quality of cut. So thanks for your input.
Zigs
The sawstop does not work by simple conduction. It works by sensing the presence of a pulsed 200 kHz signal that is fed into the blade with capacitative coupling. Coatings can change blade capacitance and thus affect the waveform. So it’s not just the distance the electrons have to move, but how it affects capacitative coupling.
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