Replies

1. 
   9619 | Dec 10, 2007 04:41pm | #1

   Mike,
   The three I'd recommend are:

   The best book is "the Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack. You can get it on Amazon.

   Woodcraft sells a great book called "Planecraft" which was written in 1911 by Hampton and Clifford. Great book.

   "Working With Handplanes" is a Best of FWW book by Taunton. Nice overviews in it.

   By the way, if anyone disagrees with me, THEY ARE WRONG! :-)
   Have fun with your addiction.
   Only buy Lie Nielsen!!!! You can buy a LN, use it for 3 months or three years, and sell it on EBay for about what your bought it for. When you consider life-cycle cost, NOTHING ELSE MAKES ANY SENSE AT ALL. This may not be "fair", whatever that means. LV planes are great, but you can't get as much of your investment back as with a LN. I suggest you do a search on "Lie Nielsen" on Ebay each day for 7 days. Keep track of what you see, and watch how closely used stuff goes to current retail prices. Notice how many times EBay sellers get more than current retail. It is very interesting phenomenon which I have observed for a long while.

   Old planes are great to learn to fettle, but they are more fussy, and they require a lot of time to tune up initially, and you really should buy a new blade, etc. Not worth the bother. Buy LN. (I have no monetary interest in the company. Darn it.)

   I try not to hide my biases.
   Whatever you do, enjoy it.
   Mel
   Mel

   Measure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   Samson | Dec 10, 2007 06:32pm | #2

   Old planes are great to learn to fettle, but they are more fussy, and they require a lot of time to tune up initially, and you really should buy a new blade, etc.

   Mel, I suppose you are trying to be provocative, but just in case you really mean any of that:  These are gross generalizations that are misleading and far overstated at best.

   I have a decent stable of old Stanley's.  I also have a few LNs.  The Stanleys ARE NOT more fussy to use or keep.  Further, many took no time - other than blade sharpening - to be ready for use.  Those that did require tuning, probably required no more than an 80 year old - left in the garage or basement- LN would (minor cleaning mostly).  I like my LNs a lot and agree they are excellent products, but a lot of what has become conventional wisdom about their superiority over old Stanleys as far as use and results is ah - somewhat hyperbolic.

   New blades are great, but also not an absolute requirement. 

    

    

1. 
   9619 | Dec 10, 2007 07:03pm | #4

   Samson,
   You concluded that I was being provocative.

   Was it my use of obviously gross over-exaggerations?
   Was it my statement that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong?
   Was it my use of the :-) ?
   Was it my statement that I don't try to hide my biases?You probably guessed that I was just having fun.
   If so, you were right.
   I think the three books that I recommended are pretty good.
   The rest of my response was beyond what was requested. I wrote it to try to provoke thought, rather than to provoke an argument. I think I am correct in believing that no-one thinks of me as a mean-spirited trouble maker. I am closer to a mischievous fun-loving imp. If I were looking for good advice on handplanes, (as I often am), I certainly would go to folks like yourself, before I'd take the advice of someone like myself. But that is one of the perils of Knots. When you ask a question, you can't control the quality of the responses. Newbies must have a terrible time with that. I rather enjoy it.My real belief in woodworking is that the only two ways to do it wrong are:
   1) to not enjoy it.
   2) to think there is only one right way of doing something.I am about as eclectic as they come. I am not an iconoclast. I wouldn't try to push my way of doing anything on anyone else. I do enjoy posing interesting points of view to myself and to others. What is a stew without spices? What would life be without new mountains to climb and new tool questions to answer?Now you have peered into the depths of my woodworking soul. Given this knowledge, I will never be able to put anything over on you again. Darn.
   :-)
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   Samson | Dec 10, 2007 07:18pm | #5

   Hey, Mel.  Like you said, I knew you were funnin a bit.  And if if you meant every word, that's fine too. 

   What I was reacting to I suppose is what I see is the growing conventional wisdom or creeping dogma that recites old Stanleys are a fettling nightmare as the soles can be likened to waves upon the ocean, the blades are paper thin chattering nightmares, and fit and finish barely acceptable for rough carpentry.  Thus, soles must be flattened for a minimum sentence of 10 hours of hard pushing and pulling; the plane will not cut a decent shaving without an extra thick replacement blade costing twice the amount of the plane itself; and even after going through all that and saying the proper incantations, the plane will never stay as sharp, adjust as well, or yield as flat and polished a surface as a LN or LV.  This stuff surely helps sell new planes and blades (of which I have several), but I'm here to say, it's rather overstated. 

   Newbies should know that the cost to ride the bench plane slippery slope is not a minimum several hundred dollars, but instead, plenty of great planing can be had for $30 or less (the cost of a very decent 1930's Stanley jack).

1. 
   9619 | Dec 10, 2007 07:36pm | #7

   Samson,
   You won't get an argument from me on the issue of old planes. In the past year I have bought four, including a Stanley #7 and put them in fine working order. Flattening the sole of the #7 required some effort but it was a great learning experience. I got an education by reading and learning and then actually fettling the four planes, and I would heartily recommend that all woodworkers try it, and to the learning, as part of figuring out where you want to go with hand planes. Just reading about fettling won't do the trick. Do a #7!
   Have fun.
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

2. 
   Samson | Dec 10, 2007 06:37pm | #3

   http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Tools-Their-Ways-Workings/dp/0393322769/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197300826&sr=8-1

   Aldren loves his 10, whereas I think you're better off with a 5 (regular Jack) and a 78 for rabbets.  Other than that, Watson is tops for explaining a lot about planes very concisely and well.

3. 
   urbman | Dec 10, 2007 07:32pm | #6

   If you can find a copy of Jim Kingshotts videos on handplane
   technique I would certainly recommend them.

   Bench Planes with Jim Kingshott

   Special Planes with Jim Kingshott

   Also David Charlesworth has fine DVD's on plane prep and
   use

4. 
   Samson | Dec 10, 2007 07:37pm | #8

   Plus, I discover that now I need to learn how to hold stuff down solidly enough to attack with all my strength with a plane, and not have the piece bend, flex, wiggle, or pop straight up into the air (happened tonight, SHMG) without nailing it to the bench or crushing it in my vice.

   As for this part of your question:  "all my strength" sounds a bit off in that it shouldn't be that hard. 

   What sort of bench set up do you have?  What is available to you: front vise, tail vice, hold downs, bench slave, deadman, bench hook, planing stop, bench dogs?  Can you clamp things to your bench from the top sides and underneath, or does an apron or other things impede claming options?  Do you own hand screw wooden clamps?

   Finally, what planing operations are you anticipating? as the holding options and requirements vary - obviously.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/10/2007 11:40 am ET by Samson

1. 
   xmike | Dec 10, 2007 10:11pm | #9

   Hi Samson,

   "What sort of bench set up do you have?"One that I built last year following plans for such.  It's heavy, 3' x 6', with three layers of 3/4" mdf with pine edging top and cabinets underneath.

     "What is available to you:"I have a front vice set into the left front edge abut a foot from the end- I need to shim the inside mounting bolts, as it angles slightly downward when it's opened.  It now has a maple dog so's I can use it to hold things against dogs on the bench.

   I need to find more substantial dogs - the plastic ones that came with my hold downs flex - hence the work popping straight up into the air yesterday evening.

   No tail vice -I  now see the need for one.

   I've a pair of hold downs.  I love them.

   What's a bench slave????

   I need to add a deadman.

   I have a bench hook (just made it yesterday - haven't really got a clue how to use it, yet.)

   Planing stop??? Tell me more.

   I need to think about how to clamp things from the top and from underneath - yes there's no apron, but there's only a 3" overhang and open cabinets beneath.

   I have 3 hand screw wooden clamps.    Hummmmmm.

   "Finally, what planing operations are you anticipating? as the holding options and requirements vary - obviously"Well, at present I'm attempting to plane the sides of a 5" long, 3" x 4" curly maple, straight cabinet foot that has a 60 degree bevel from side to side.  Slippery little devil!!!  I'll also be plaining the joints of my frame and panel doors, and those of my face frames.

   Plus, I plan to plane the end panels - I love the way the plane brings out the "show" of curly maple.

   Mike D

1. 
   Samson | Dec 10, 2007 10:26pm | #10

   This is not mine (just a pic I found using google) - bench slave:

   http://www.just4fun.org/images/woodworking/workbench/full/DCP_2725.jpg

   It is not quite as versitile as a deadman, but can work well for edge work.

   planing stop: Think of a large square dog that holds the edge of the board as you plane towards it.  Variations include a board tthat somes up from the end of your bench or a thinner (than the work) board held by dogs or clamps on the top of your bench.

   The hand screws can hold a board on edge on the top of your bench and then themselves be clamped to the top.  The hand screws may also be used for small pieces and then clamped into the front vise.

   T-tracks can also be installed on your bench in various ways to gain holding flexibility with various toggle clamps and the like.

1. 
   xmike | Dec 11, 2007 01:30am | #13

   The slave is made from purple heart and maple?  Zounds

   Planing Stop - I remember seeing one of those on a bench - should be easy to duplicate.  Another project....

   Thanks,

   Mike

2. 
   nboucher | Dec 10, 2007 10:43pm | #11

   Mike--I don't have a tail vise either, which why I use one of these. It's a poor (or lazy) man's tail vise. If you have round bench-dog holes, set the piece you want to plane between a dog and one of these gizmos and plane away.http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=31129&cat=1,43838,43847&ap=1Norman

3. 
   Taigert | Dec 10, 2007 11:21pm | #12

   Mike

   If you have to keep something of a odd shape in place make a craddle for it to sit on with a block to push against at one end and a block to clamp in your vise at the other end.