My best WWing friend on the island is in need of some more carving tools, and he likes quality. Who’s the best source?
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Replies
This is where I have bought all my carving tools. Pfeil (Swiss Made) is a very good brand, and his prices are about 40% less than what you would pay in the States. Excellent quality and value, and he's close to you, albeit in Canada.
http://www.woodcarvingbiz.com/Gouges.htm
Michael R
Michael,I'm gonna puke! I have 52 Pfeil gouges which I bought from Woodcraft, each purchased at over $30 a piece. I don't even what to know how much I COULD HAVE SAVED.I knew I shouldn't have poked my head in here ...Regards,
Phillip
Sorry Phillip. What's done is done, but at least you won't waste any more money.
Looks like KMS prices are even a little bit better.
Michael R
Me too Phil. I have recently bought 22 chisels and then found the Canada sites. I just got 3 new ones for 30% less than U.S. prices.
Try http://www.kmstools.com
Canandian outfit with Pfeil chisels. Ordered 4 today.
Hope this helps,
Dave
Hi Forestgirl,
As poster Dave has pointed out, Kmstools in British Columbia Canada sells Pfeil 'Swiss Made' carving tools, they have fantastic prices and service. Have bought many from them and have been very satisfied..
Good luck
Edited 2/17/2005 8:19 am ET by BOBABEUI
ForestGirl, Pfeils seem to lead the pack whenever this question is asked but I think it's more because of marketting and availability than actual tool quality. The steel in Pfeils is very good, the handles are of good material but I've never taken one apart to see how well done the castings are for alignment. I will say that Pfeils have no ferrule. The ferrule helps prevent split handles when the tool is used with a mallet.
The best tool will have straight grained hardwood handles, fine grain steel and varnish or lacquer on the steel. The smaller tools will have ferrules where the tang enters the handle and larger tools will have another at the top of the handle.
I have not used every brand available so any reccommadation I'd have would be hollow. Look for those things I've listed and you'll have a good carving tool.
Lee
Forestgirl, I have not used them but Mike's Tools (http://mikestools.com/Two_Cherries_Pages/Two_Cherries_Carving_Tools_catalog.asp) sells the Two Cherries carving tools. I have used and own the Two Cherries bevel edge chisels and like them. The service was good and the shipping was quick. The prices (for the bevel edge chisels) were a little lower than other places.
Mike
Jamie,
Pfeil, IMHO, is the best for all of the reasons that make for good carving gouges: steel, gouge to handle alignment, handle comfort, and so on. Carver's know all about these things or soon will.
I have experimented very little because: (1), I research a lot prior to purchase, and (2), I took the word of Ian Agrell way back in FWW #122 so he saved me a lot of time - and money with regards to jumping from one brand of carving gouge to the next. Pfeil's work for me and that's all that matters.
Availability can be a source of annoyance if purchasing these tools from Woodcraft. This is personal experience so take if for what it's worth: a gouge I ordered was back-logged for over two (2) years. This is not to say that Woodcraft is totally to blame ( they ARE THE ONLY AMERICAN SOURCE FOR THESE GOUGES ), because Pfeil was party to this exclusive vendorship. A carving project cannot endure a wait of that duration, so I had to improvise and move on.
Price is another issue with Woodcraft. Since they are the only Pfeil vendor in this country they probably assume - incorrectly - that they can charge whatever they please. Elsewhere in this post I noted that I have purchased 52 Pfeil gouges from Woodcraft at over $30 a pop. Had I known of the "Canadian connection" I could have saved a bundle. Unfortunatly, during those years, I did not surf the web to find the best deal as I do now. Too bad.
Final note, slightly off the subject. Today I feel that my purchasing "skills" have been developed to a much higher degree which could have prevented the two year wait mentioned above. For instance, when I order on-line from Lee Valley (LV), you know instantly whether the item is in stock, or when it is expected to be in stock. From my experience with LV, they never miss. In addition, in looking at their catalog, you will see the source of origin of the produce ( usually a flag or symbol, ie, a red oak leaf ). Hartville Tool does this as well. You cannot say the same for Woodcraft. I have spent a LOT OF MONEY at Woodcraft in years past, but I have become much more aware of their business practices of late.
Regards,
Phillip
Pfeil (Swiss Made) are nice, but for certain profiles I prefer English-pattern chisels (mostly the "grounders" - shallow sweep bent spoons). I'm still looking for the best sources; I obtained some Henry Taylors that are quite good, from Wood Carvers Supply. But they were back ordered and it took a couple of months...
For super high quality (not cheap), there are the French Auriou chisels. Ian Agrell lists them in his catalog, which I don't seem to have here... try http://www.agrellandthorpe and see if they have a link for tools.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
Here's the link you were trying to post, you forgot the .com part. http://www.agrellandthorpe.comIan used to be partnered with a stone carver, wasn't he the Thorpe? Fabulous work, probably tough to make it in this country.I always wanted to try stone carving, there was a PBS show years back about the stone carvers working on the Washington Cathedral, it was really inspirational. Generations of stone carvers had worked on that building and the project was nearing completion. The carvers were unsure of their future. It was quite a show.Phillip, Pfeils are a mid range tool. I'd rate Lamps, Ashley Iles, Two Cherries and Sorbys all higher, Try a couple different brands and see what you think. Albionwood brings up a good point, no single manufacturer makes all patterns. I've got five different brands in my drawer and that number will probably grow. Oddly, I have no Pfeils. A student bought some and I was able to have a go at them. They are what they are, a fairly inexpensive tool but reasonably good.Lee
Lee,
I'm new at this carving game, but with all the books, videos etc. available, plus your advice, I seem to be getting along slowly on my first big project. Still debating whether I should go and look for personal training or just continue the way I am.
I started off with a real cheap set of 12 chrome vanadium steel chisels, as I first wanted to find out if I am able to do this, now I'm at the stage where I add chisels (the expensive ones) with different profiles, as I need them.
I'm just wondering if this whole chisel quality thing is not over-rated, as besides the fact that I had to spend half a day re-shaping and honing all the bevels on the el-cheapo set, they are fine now and hold an edge well. They shave hairs just as well as the Pfeil's, Sorby's etc., and they carve wood.
Perhaps my limited knowledge of the subject makes me a poor judge?
Shaving hairs, actually splitting them, is where you end up when comparing tools. Carving tools can be classified in three categories, el cheapo, mid range and high qiality. Frankly, novices are not well equipped to differentiate because bad technique is really hard on the edges. Most of the poor technique is due to prying and leveraging. Where high quality tools set themselves apart is often in longevity. The steel, the alignment of blade and tang and handle are important as well as ferrules. You can't determine the alignment without taking a tool apart and even then it's a tool by tool deal.My first set of carving tools was Marples. Marples used to be quite good tools when Marples himself ran the cutting tool end of things. The steel was lousy by today's standards but it was quite good for it's day. Steel for these tools has come a very long way in the past thirty years. I carved some really fine pieces with these tools in spite of theor "crummy steel". The tools do not make the craftsman, it's the other way around. In England there is this closely connected group of tool makers that work for Sorby, Addis, Ashley Iles and Taylor who are all in their seventies. It's a close group and when they die it's all over for these tools as we know them. The Austrians and Swiss and Germans have the steel now so there are still fine tools being made, the English tool makers are in their twilight years, both figuratively and really.Is the quality thing overated? Sure it is. Forestgirl asked for high quality tools and she got her responses. A good carver can do beautiful work with low grade tools but a bad carver cannot do great work with high quality tools. In fact, it's probably best to learn with cheaper tools, learners are hard on them.I know you're well along on your way to becoming a decent carver. Will better tools make you a better carver? Nope. They will last longer and be more servicable during their lives, that's about all. Don't get hung up on name brands, they change in quality.Lee
Lee, thanks for providing the link. I haven't checked to see if Ian has the tool catalog on-line yet. Yes, he was (AFAIK still is) partnered with Thorpe the stone-carver; not sure if Thorpe is in England or US.I've been to that cathedral, arount the time they were finishing up - magnificent work. I loved the updated capitals and modernized gargoyles!Wood Carvers Supply carries Lamp brand - I'd never heard of them and didn't know they were good. Where can one get Ashley Iles? I keep hearing about them.Henry Taylor seems to have several different lines, of varying quality. The ones in Woodcraft are flashy but not that great; the ones I got through Garret Wade years ago were really good; the ones I recently got through WCS are somewhere in between."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
Ashley,Henry,and Auriou can be purchased at:
http://www.thebestthings.com
I've got more Lamps than anything else. I think they are as fine a tool as you can buy but as I made clear earlier there are brands I have not used. My only complaint is that they come with a WoodCarver's Supply Logo printed on the handle. A pass or two with a scraper two removes this so it's nothing more than a brief annoyance.Order one or two and give them a try.If you ever get to Albany, NY, treat yourself to a tour of the staircase in the back of the state capitol building. It's been recently restored and it took something like 200 stone carvers 23 years to produce. It's an acanthus leaf vine pattern and close scrutiny reveals boss's faces, cats, wives, gargoyles and many jokes in the staircase. I spent two days in that stairwell and will visit it again when I head back there. It's a wondrous work. You can lean over the railing and get very close to the work and there are five or six stories, all split staircases.Lee
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