I just ordered a set of Japanese chisels for dovetails. Apart from a regular claw hammer, the only other hammers I have are the dead blow variety. How important is it to use a specialized mallet?
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Replies
Now you'r talkin' ! I like these.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=11%2E415%2E11&dept_id=12907
Some of the Japanese hammers, the skinnier ones in particular have one face flat for tapping chisels and one side domed for other carpentry work and still others of the the skinny hammers are for plane blade adjusting. But again I like the fatter hammers for chisel work:
As far as how important it is ; you can use other mallets or hammers. Experiment. I like the Japanese hammers. They feel right for the purpose. I suppose these fatter hammers are more for mortising and the skinnies for dovetails. Depents on the size of the dovetails and the hardness of the wood. A small fat has a larger face so I would tend to use it over a larger skinny for the same weight hammer.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 3/26/2009 7:38 pm by roc
You should consider making one out of wood. I have a couple, and they are perfect for the task of chiseling dovetails, etc....and carving.
Not hard to make, either. My last one took about an hour.
W,
Home-mademallets - they can be lovely thangs.
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=33300.40
Lataxe
I'd like to make one out of wood, but don't you think the metal bands at the top of the chisel head would be tough on it?
M
The metal hoops on the handles do tear up the wooden mallets but hey-- if you make a couple on the lathe, they last quite a good while.
Something I tried: I turned some smaller mallets on the lathe but once I got to working with them, I wanted more weight but not the bulk. So. I bored out the mallet head with a forstner bit and angle drill some small sprue channels. I cooked up a little plumbers lead and poured it in. Now I have some weight and they feel great. This way you can adjust the weight to your liking and have a mallet that feels good for your work.
Note the lead has never come out.
Additionally, I use graphite powder or "pencil lead" to make the pathways slippery and help the lead flow.
Just another technique
dan
Who ever said that inovation is dead in America? If we could get enough woodworkers together there's not much we couldn't figure out. GM and Chrysler would just be starters!
I presently don't own a lathe. If I had one I'd like to make a mallett like yours.
You can always carve one. It doesn't need to be perfectly round. Remember that wood will only compress so much, so while it gets bruised at first, eventually it'll be able to resist the blows.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
If we could get enough woodworkers together there's not much we couldn't figure out.
Kinda sounds like the Jointer Plane discussion over in the Hand Tools forum - the longest argument, uh debate ever on Knots. Just think of the hostorical (terical?) significance..................
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I thought the whole purpose of a lathe was to make tool handles and mallets. Was I ill informed? Are there other uses?
Sharpen pencils?
Toothpicks!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob and Monty,Pencils and toothpicks. Who wooda thunk it. I'll guess I have to get one of those Oneways and lay in s'more balsa. I think I'm going to like this machine buyin profession. Have to tie my hair back though, else I'll catch my mullet makin mallets. Have to mull this over a bit more.BB
boiler,
I was just funnin ye on the toothpick thing as I'm sure you knew.
I have something I want to do that involves making a dish shaped circle < read shallow bowl> inside of an octagon shaped block of wood 1 1/4" thick. It's made of slices of wood that are glued together with end grain on the top and bottom.
Never turned end grain so will be another new adventure. Oh, and a lot of it is burl.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks for the reply. I have a friend from Alameda who just got me a pull saw from the Japan Woodworker,(also of Alameda). In fact I'm going to break-in the saw on the dovetails I'll cut with the new chisels. The 300 g. barrel shaped chisel hammer is the one I'll get.
Montana,
You're welcome.>rings on the tops of the chisels<Yes. Just as Ralph Barker said. The rings should be well below the top of the chisel. This book is a must have:http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Woodworking-Tools-Tradition-Spirit/dp/0941936465You can buy it from your favorite woodworking tool supplier rather than Amazon if you want to support that business in stead.For the info sheets on how to set up Japanese tools etc. see this "Resources" page at the Japan Woodworker :http://www.japanwoodworker.com/page.asp?content_id=15360Specifically this sheethttp://www.japanwoodworker.com/newswire.asp?content_id=11514rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 3/27/2009 9:50 pm by roc
That's great info. This channel is the best. I can't beleive the help I get from everybody. I get in the middle of projects and often incounter unkowns. I'm making a coffee table that consists basically of box with legs. I was going to miter the corners of the box and make a jig to cut dovetail shaped keys to join it. That was until i decided that it was too wide for my sliding miter saw. So now I'm waiting for my new chisels to arrive to start the biggest hand dovetail project I've ever done. I enjoy searching out the best value in tools and pay attention to FWW surveys. They gave the chisels I ordered from Grizzly the best value rating. I've never had a Japanese chisel before so the book and articles in Japan Woodworker will be perfect.
Many thanks.
Glad to hear I helped. Sounds like a nice project you have lined up. One option, if I may, would be to do a fully blind dovetail joint.Pros:
• the joint is hidden so even if all of the joint isn't perfect no body can tell and it is still very strong.• you could even still do your dovetail shaped keys if you prefer that look. It is nice !Cons:
• you don't get to display your hard won dovetails because they are hidden. You could take pictures just before you glue the joints together.• takes a little more time• may take another tool or two to do the joint. The small area of miter can be done with a shoulder plane or chisel.Oh well just a thought.I attempted to find an article here on FWW for the "secret mitered dovetail joint " or fully blind dovetail joint but did not find one. Just to show what I am referring to. Maybe someone else could help if you find you are interested. Here is a great book for this joint and dovetails in general.http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Dovetail-Handmade-Furnitures-Signature/dp/0941936678Just remembered I have a sample so here are pics. Sorry kind of out of focus. I am not a camera dude. This was taken with an iPhone.Some may say it is a bad idea to recommend this advanced joint to a person just learning. I don't know. Isn't much harder than a plane dovetail joint. Who knows. A couple of practice joints and you will be all set or find I am all wet. In any case you get some great time with your new chisels.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
"may take another tool or two to do the joint"Roc,Assuming he doesn't already have these tools, isn't this a pro?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
No pro's here.
Great joinery. I did some practice dovetails with old chisels over the weekend. Not a pretty sight. I may end up mooching off a firend and use his 24" jig to whip these out. I confess to some loss of enthusiasm at the prospect of cutting four 20" joints by hand after my test run.
I have an old stanley ball pen hammer that I got at a garage sale it is about 12 ounces and works great with the Japanese chisels. I also have a Japanese chisel hammer and it works fine although I don't think there is any difference between it and the ball pen hammer. Anyway good luck and have fun.
Troy
Many thanks. This is the biggest hand dovetail job I've attempted. It for a coffee table 20" wide where I'll doevetail the top and sides.
I like either a cheap rubber mallet or shopmade wood mallets for heavy chiselling. The former is quiet, effective and beafy, the later is fun and crisp.
Brian
The appropriate hammer for Japanese chisels is a genno. These are steel. The better ones (read expensive) are laminated.
For example: http://www.japanesetools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=78&products_id=2749
I have two, one 225 gms and the other 300 gms.
Japanese bench chisels are metal hooped and this will destroy a wooden hammer. Keep them for unhooped chisels. The steel genno should provide a balanced and focussed striking force. They do not have to be expensive, ranging from about under $20 upward.
http://www.hidatool.com/shop/shop.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
Montanaman,Especially with Japanese chisels, I think the old adage 'less is more' is appropriate; they will go banana on you if struck to hard. I turned some carver type mallets on the lathe, the maple looked nicer than the oak and the ugly poplar was just for laughs. Three years later I'm still waiting to use the maple or oak, the poplar won't die, and, actually, the weight is better suited for the task. I also like the fact that my mallet stand up on its head; keeps my finger away from all the sharp stuff on the bench
Any problem with the steel band on the chisel head damaging your wooden mallets?
Montana,"Any problem with the steel band on the chisel head damaging your wooden mallets?"Not that I recall, but then I don't use much force with the Japanese chisels. I'll use my firmer chisels for heavy work.
I recall seeing an article on one of the Japanese tool supplier sites, I believe, that showed how best to seat the metal ring, and then gently blossom the end of the wooden handle over the ring. Sorry I don't have a link. But, the essence is that the ring should be below the end of the handle.
Thanks for the reply. I'm going to order the 300 g. forged steel barrel shaped chisel hammer from the Japan Woodworker. I'm making a 20" wide coffee table where I'll dovetail the top and sides.
Gooday!
I like the round, carvers style mallets, too. You don't have to look at the mallet, you can concentrate on the cut, since there is no specific face that has to make contact with the chisel. Much easier for light tapping, great control and feed back, You can deliver a firm blow also and not have to think about whacking your hand with a hammer. Simple to turn out on a lathe. You can buy manufactured ones with indestructible polyurethane heads. Neither will mark or harm your chisel handles.
The Authoritative One,I agree. Polyurethane heads are much quieter than wood as well. I have a few sizes for different scales of work - a big 12oz for mortising and two smaller ones that nestle in my palm for carving.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Although I've been tempted, so far, I've left the polyurethane mallets on the store shelf. I heat with wood. When a likely looking chuck shows it's pretty face, I set it aside for future handles, mallets, etc. If the splitting maul doesn't make it cooperate, chances are, it will make a good tough handle.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
ALL,
Here is sonny boy's first turning project. It is ash and walnut. We finished it on the lathe with a paste a contributor gave me the receipe for (3 parts warm mineral oil and 1 part melted beeswax- cooled into a rub on bar).
Frank
S-W-E-E-T! More fun to use than a store bought item.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Frank,That's a nicely detailed mallet. I hope Andrew won't mind damaging it! A fine job indeed.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I told him the whole purpose of it isto dink it up.
Frank
Best chisel mallet ..
With alot of dink it up on it!
How important is it to use a specialized mallet?
I for one would say any mallet/hammer you like to use and it does not ruin your chisel handles. If you will be doing ALOT of hammering the weight will make a difference on my arm joints!
I have a very old Nickel/Lead based babbitte mallet I use but it a bit heavy when working along time. (Old man here)..
I have several nasty old Maple trees on my property. I love trees but those maples drop all sorts of stuff from buds to little helechopper seeds and sap and whatever they feel like at the season...
My favorite mallet is made from a downed sort of larger branch. Dead wood? I guess so because it was already dry as a bone.. I cut on the TS sort of 2X2 (square) by about 12 inches long.. Carved a handle that fit my hand.. Drilled a big hole in the end and filled it about half way steel shot and plugged the end.. I like the noise it makes when hammerin'...
I made another one with Lead shot but I guess I went Green before it was a popular subject...
I guess all I am saying anything you can control in your hand will work. Heavy enough to make a good 'blow' and light enough not to damage YOU OR THE CHISEL!
What great ideas. I've got a couple cherry branches that I've dried over the winter. I'm going to take a look see, one might work. Thanks for the advise.
I like to whack on my chisels with a Wood River bench plane.
This is a joke; this is only a joke. Had this been an actual controversial comment, you would have been advised where to stay tuned for further instructions. This is only a joke.
FF,Wood River is clearly and blatantly copying someone else's work, as chisel-whacking with a plane is a time-tested and honored activity. Roubo probably did it when assembling his bench, for Pete's sake.............Perhaps by whacking an English or American chisel and not a Japanese chisel, Wood River will be allowed to save face, but don't bet your chopsticks on it.How mortal woodworkers can be expected to continue to live with and endure this extreme measure of public humility and shame is beyond me. How dare Wood River bring out these products without consulting us! I am convinced that this was an oversight of monumental proportions, and I wait patiently (yet with some degree of anxiousness) by the phone.And just to keep on topic, I have quite a few turned mallets in my shop made from dogwood, black gum, hickory, maple, persimmon, etc. They all get used, and I don't have to reach very far from anywhere in my shop to find one. I have yet to damage one too badly from striking any metal. IMO, dogwood and persimmon make hickory look soft, at least as far as mallets go. And yes, I copied the design for them all............Rich in VA
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