just starting out – have 2 hand clamps – I want to get some clamps to help in the early projects (some small stuff, then cabinetry – an armoir, actually).
I thought I read where Jorgensen was preferred (for the money as compared to Bessey). This makes sense to me – I don’t mind having to change pipes.
Is 3/4 better than 1/2?
Is Joregensen the easy choice?
Galvanized better than black pipe?
Any help would be appreciated!!! (I did a search and didn’t turn up much).
Replies
I also started with pipe clamps, and now I don't ever use them - they collect dust in the corner.
If you are looking for a good selections of clamps for glue-up type work (presumably), I recommend either the Bessey K-Body clamps, or an equivalent Parallel Jaw clamp - I was amazed at how much easier they are to use than almost any other type...
They're expensive, but well worth the lack of aggravation.
Doug
What he said. My pipes are there only for emergency uses like holding up the wall. I have 1 K-body, and I can't wait to get more. Start saving!
any parallel body clamp will serve you better, and dent your wallet in the process. However, I have noticed a couple of truisms:
1) you can never have too many clamps
2) old clamps never go away, they just end up in the corner "just in case".
with the above in mind, if I was starting over, I would go with good clamps from the get go. Take the plunge on a 5 pack and incrementally add over time. I have gotten in the habit of buying 1 K body every other month, 6 clamps a year. Over time I have built up a good inventory.
I prefer K body, but any of the parallel body clamps would be fine with me. Bessey has a new line called the Uniclamp, but the prices don't seem to be that much better than the k body.
The uniclamp is a slightly lighter duty clamp, but as indicated, they don't provide much of a discount, so i'm sticking with the original.
One other thing - the K-Body is the only one of the parallels that cannot be used as a spreader - if you think that might be a handy thing to have (personally I use a scrap board and a "persuader"), so may want to check out some of the other types.
Also, I don't mean to persuade away from all other clamps - K-Bodys only come up to 48" long (I think) - if you need anything longer than that, and aren't concerned about "parallelism" (such as when clamping legs and rails that are mortised - you want them parallel, but aren't relying on the clamps to provide it), you will need pipe clamps.
If you decide to go strictly with pipe clamps, I suggest a couple of small regular clamps and a few pieces of 3/4" x 2" stock for use as clamping pawls to keep your glue-ups flat (but the K-Body's are easier ;)
d-
I believe the Jorgensen CabinetMaster only go up to 48". The Bessey 'K' Body tops out at 98", though the only place I knew of that carried them was McFeely's for $69.95 and they don't even have them in the most recent catalog I have.
I can attest that the Pony pipe clamps are solid and a good value. The handle really lets me crank down with a fair amount of pressure. The 3/4" (No. 50) is less prone to deflection, especially on longer spans. Also, figure on the head and foot fixtures to occupy approximately 6" of pipe space so that, for example, a 4-foot section of pipe will yield a capacity of only 42" or so.
http://www.internationaltool.com/jorgn2.htm#steelbarclampfixtures has a good price for the No. 50. There is also a No. 56 that can be used as a spreader, but the price is more, the handle offers less leverage, and the clamping surface is smaller.
Thanks to all for the input.
I'll have to look around for that 5 pack - didn't see it at my usual online stores. I agree, it sounds like a good way to start.
ST,
I too seldom use my pipe clamps since I find them too cumbersome. The K-Body clamps are great, but they cost a lot. Bar clamps are my usual fare, and I think I've tried them all. In my opinion Jorgensen are the best since they're constructed in such a way that your work is not prone to move as you tighten the clamp - a problem with most others, especially when you're working with glued surfaces. (A persistent problem with Bessy bar clamps.)
If you can't afford good clamps right now, just buy a half dozen good clamps, then add more as your wallet allows. Until then, don't forget that wedges and a few blocks of wood fastened to your bench, or even rope will do the job.
Another affordable alternative are the clamp hardware sets sold by Grizzly, Garrett Wade, et al. that mount on a piece of hardwood (you supply). I like them because you can make them as long or as short as you like, and even interchange the hardware, if necessary, mounting it on whatever size piece you need at the time.
Jeff
I get mine at http://www.wwhardware.com, just search for "bessey".
STCAT,
Im just starting out also and therefore only have about 30 clamps. The bessy's are great but so are the pipe clamps. Turning the bessy handle is not as easy as the pipe clamps setup. There is a tendency to think bigger is better until your lugging the things around and trying to balance with one hand and tighten with the other...
Eventually you'll need everything from 2" C clamps to 6' pipe clamps, and a half dozen cawls. I, like I'm sure most people, buy clamps on an as needed basis in the middle of a project....that is a mistake, you go for cheap then. IMHO, get a few long bessy's and a few pipe clamps with different lengths of pipe (the box stores will cut and thread the pipe cheaply) The 12", 24", 36" pipe clamps need to have small heads with pads so they can be positioned out of the tools way. Also, get the good spring clamps (orange). If that dosen't work, buy in the middle of the project...lol.
Lastly, I had problems with slipping when i used galvanized pipe...
I must be retarded or something. I have a couple of dozen 3/4" pipe clamps and I use them all the time. I use 2' lengths of pipe, threaded on both ends, so I can gang them together with pipe couplings when I need longer lengths. They work great and I intend to pass them on to my son-in-law (if he out lives me.)
*Whew*
Glad you said that Jon. I have nothing but pipe clamps. But I'm just an old fart. Don't know how my glue joints ever stayed together before Bessey clamps. Wish I had some but I have other things to spend bucks on.
Rich
Jon,
No, we're the retarded ones - or else you're blessed with extraordinary dexterity. If it works for you, that's all that matters. Don't apologize!
Jeff
Count me among the retarded and clamp-rich. I used to get some screaming deal from i-can't-remember-where; i would get a half-dozen sets of 1/2" Pony clamps for about $6 a set. The galvanized pipe i used to use (talk about cheap: it was what came out of my house when i replumbed it!) sometimes made the clamp slip, so i splurged and spent ungodly amounts of money--maybe $30--getting 20' lengths of black pipe (used for natural gas) cut and threaded at a plumbing supplier. DO NOT buy this stuff precut at a hardware store or you'll get *soaked*, LOL!
OK, now...who threw that tomato?
Black pipe stops the slipping, huh? HD has black pipe right next to the galvinized. It's about the same price. I just thought it was painted. Is it a different animal?
Rich
Rich,
The zinc coating on galvanized pipe makes a harder surface which tends to make the clamp slip.
Jeff
What's the coating on black pipe?
Rich,
I think it's just a paint or other sealant to preserve it from rust.
Jeff
This is a great discussion for me - just what I asked for. I appreciate that there is always more than one way to skin the cat. I do plan on doing a big project in the next year - an entertainment armoir - and I guess that's where the pipes will come in handy. I'll always be a project woodworker - not going for production - so messing around w/ connecting pipes together to make longer clamps is no big deal to me.
I like the idea of buying the pipe in 2' sections, with connectors.
I also like the idea of buying one from Sears and going to HD and buy some more for less on the Bessey's.
I could not find a package deal, where you bought an assortment or a set of 5 for a better price - if I could I would go that route if it was a lower overall cost.
So, thanks all. I'm leaning right now towards buying some 3/4" pipe clamps, and I'll have to take a look at the Jorgensen. I also think one of my mags has a clamp review in it which I couldn't find - I'll have to dig it out again (I subscribed to 4 magazines late last year to get up to speed).
It seems the remaining quesiton out there is black -vs- galvanized - black apparently can rust and mark the wood, galvanized is slippery - perhaps it depends on the clamps you are using. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Cat and Rich: there's no coating/paint on the black pipe--that's just plain steel without the galvanized coating that water, being so corrosive, requires. There have been some concerns with using galvanized with gas bec impurities in the gas (sulphur) can react with the zinc, though gas comes into your house pretty pure these days so that's not the big deal it once was, though drip legs are still code in most locales. However, the zinc coating on the inside can flake, too--not a big problem with water lines used to transport sand particles to your washing machine, esp when doing a load of whites--at least i think that's the purpose with MY well--but the debris can render a gas valve inoperable--a very bad thing.
The pipe is rather oily when you get it, both from the factory and from cutting threads, so use something like gasoline to wipe it down. I then wax the pipes with plain old Trewax i use for finishing, mostly to keep any stray glue beads from sticking as i don't have a rust problem where i live. Be aware that just the iron itself with react with certain tannin-rich woods like oak in the presence of moisture (like glue) and leave a deep and nasty black stain.
Pipes that i lay down under the work get a strip of waxed paper laid on them, strips that i make by cutting the roll of paper in thirds on the bandsaw (hang on tight!), before i set the wood on them. Clamps from the top are placed with either a layer of waxed paper bet pipe and wood, or they stand off with 1/8" Baltic birch plywood spacers. Clamps from the side are similarly spaced off by eye. IOW, i don't have pipe/wood contact, so residue/stain isn't a problem.
I use 1/2" clamps for most work bec 1) i'm a wimp and 2) if i need 3/4" clamps to pull it together, i didn't fit it well enough. I've got several 6', 3/4" clamps that i may use again if the Universe itself comes unstuck, but until then i prefer they stay in the rack...though i do prefer the beefy 3/4" handles to the 1/2" slider-bar ones. Sometime you might find in tight spots that the larger 3/4" handle has no room to turn, so the slider type is handy that way.
If you get both ends of the pipe threaded so you can connect them for longer lengths, keep couplings on the outboard side to protect the threads.
One more thing before i shut up, since Sears has been mentioned: Many, many moons ago, i bought some pipe clamps from them that worked on the principle of some dogged teeth on a cam biting into the pipe, rather than the sprung, O-shaped gripper-thingies (there must be a name...) that the Pony clamps use. Avoid the toothy-cam types--they work only if you have a large hammer to bash them into the pipes just as you are snugging them up.
Splintie,
I too bought those cam type pipe clamps at Sears many moons ago...what a waste. I need the 3/4" clamps because when ever I cut up 3/4" ply it gets thicker immediately after the cut..and won't go in the dado with out encouragement (brute force). I use the cawls for long dados with the clamps at the end of the cawls. After a couple days sitting in the dado the joint fits nicely.
Also, I made some rounded over triangles with 3/4" holes in the middle to slide onto the pipe clamps (saw on the web somewhere). These provide nice feet for the pipe clamps and wood against wood clamping.
I purchased one galavized pipe nearly 20 years ago, probably because of the black spot problem. The pony's clamps have never slipped on the galavized pipe. All of my "black spots" are fairly superficial. I normal work my glued up piece after glue up, planing, sanding,... etc. One thing I have noticed is the galavized pipe clamp appears to lay lower than my black pipes. So therefore, I generally don't put it on the bottom of the panel that I'm gluing up... I purchased two Bessey K-bodied clamps and have tried them the first time last week. One thing about the Bessey clamps is they are more flexible (in use) than the pipe clamps, and do apply more squarely if I have to turn the clamps to make room for other clamps. In the past I have always used the Jorgensen "F" clamps if I need to twist or turn my clamps, but you do need to watch for even clamping pressure. I use a lot of outside splines, keyed miters if you will, it's common to glue them in and have them rock off to on side. Bessey appears to make that less of a problem. All facts gathered, you need many different types of clamps as previous noted, you will get them as the job calls for them My advice is to get some Pony 3/4" pipe clamps and thread both ends as a few post prior to me has suggested. They work, and are relatively cheap. By the way, I've got some Sears pipe clamps I'd sell you, : ' >.
Enjoy,
Dale
Just a couple thoughts that don't seem to have been mentioned. The new galvanized pipe imported from Taiwan does not work for pipe clamps. The coating is think and slippery. American made works ok but may be impossible to find. Jorgensen's are a great deal. Every shop needs some K's because they do a certain thing impeccably, but they also have limitations.
I have all kinds of clamps and each has its use and application. No one mentioned the Record clamps that fit on a 5/4 wooden rail. These are pretty cool for long work and do not mar work. I also use the large import swivel pad vice-grip style clamps.These are cheap and incredibly versatile. I also use a bander for my strap type glue ups. The strapping is cheap and the pressure incredible.
STCat,
When buying clamps, like buying most everything else, you'll find lots of people ready to take your money--some will take a lot more than others. The Bessey clamps are great (I guess. I don't have any and have never used them) but they're way too expensive for me. With bar clamps, a few scraps of wood and a few minutes work I get clamps with pads that work similar to the Besseys, and that work quite well enough for me--and I have saved thirty or forty dollars per clamp over the price of a Bessey. That's money I would much rather spend on other things.
Alan
Howw many clamps do you need? One more than you have at any given time! (grin).
That said, I have a standing rule ... whenever I go to Home Depot or Lowes, or where ever clamps are sold, if I buy anything, I also buy at least one new clamp. If it's a big clamp, I buy one. If I decide to buy a small one, I buy two. Usually the Bessy clamps although Jorgenson bar clamps have struck my fancy. They're a little harder to adjust (close onto the work) but they don't open up by themselves if I'm working in a vertical mode.
Pipe clamps? - go for the 3/4" size. 1/2" is OK for small spans but like Jon, I have a variety of lengths of pipe threaded on both ends (Yeah, Splintie, I bought the pre-cut/pre-threaded stuff at HD -ouch-) so in net effect I have clamps to reach as far as anything I could conceivably want to glue together. Fortunately I'm not into building boats. (yet) -haha-
The pipe clamps come in handy for large casework type of stuff but this probably isn't on your horizon rright now. My suggestion would be to go with the parallel bar variety. Size depends on what you plan to do. Just remember; you can clamp small stuff with a big clamp, but you can't clamp big stuff with a small clamp. Get the biggest clamps you think you'll need in the forseeable future.
You'd be surprised at what you can do with a bunch of threaded rod cut in various lengths, washers and nuts, too.
[email protected]
If your on a budget, start with bar clamps. I still use my bar clamps. And have several size sets of pipe.
If you can afford them, by all means buy some parallel clamps. Sears has the 40" Besseys for $29 and change. If you can get them to do a price check for Home Depot you can get them for 10% less or $26 and change. I actually had to buy one at Sears and show them the receipt at home depot because Sears wouldn't quote the price over the phone. I bought 6 of them while I could get the deal done. I was in Sears the other day and they still have the Bessey 40" for $29 and change.
The reality I have found is that you need many types of clamps for different situations, so buy 6 of these and 6 of those as your budget permits.
TDF
You should also consider strap clamps. I've found them indispensible for gluing up cases and frames.
Add me to the mentally challenged group of pipe clamp bearers. I get the ends for under $10 a piece when they go on sale. I like them for the said reasons as well as their versatility as holddowns on a plywood bench that I have. Makes a firm clamp for chopping dovetails.
For smaller clamping jobs, I have one too few Quick-Grips for must holding something in place. I don't require a lot from them for holding power, just more than my hand can squeeze. Also, they're too dang expensive IMO.
A standing response to my family for ideas for birthday presents is: Clamps.
Tim
OK - I found that article I had read - in the August issue of Woodworker's Journal - the reason I posted the question w/out looking a second time was I was in the process of ordering something from Amazon and thought I might add a clamp or two in. As I now know, a clamp order will easily exceed that $25 threshold in and of itself. Here is what I can add from that article.
The black pipe is not steel, it's iron. The waxed paper treatment noted above is suggested.
In addition to bar and alumuminum clamps (Jorgensen), they mention Steel bar clamps (Wilton) which are as strong as pipe clamps w/ the positive clamping action of the aluminum. I found these as follows: light duty 36" (600 lb capacity, 2.5" throat) $15; regular duty 36" (1000 lb capacity, 4" throat) $20. That's the largest size.
This is actually an excellent, 7-page article that goes through one hand, spring, band, and corner clamps and suggests what you need to start out with (depending on what you're doing). I feel silly now for posting the question, but then again hearing different views is also good - no article is necessarily authoritative.
Thanks again to everyone - hopefully I've added a little here as well as learned a great deal.
Since we seem to be surveying the fine art of putting pressure on a glue joint...let us not forget the worth of that great gift of nature: gravity. I make Appalachian dulcimers and a lot of small knick-knacks where the glue-up requires only gentle coaxing to stay in place...So, the well equipped shop profits from an assortment of heavy objects. I have a couple of really cheap, 15lb Chinese anvils, several 6" cut-offs of steel bar stock and a few hunks of railroad iron...and the cement blocks I use when setting up a drying pile for seasoning lumber are sometimes also pressed into service on larger glue-ups. I've even had the wife sit on a project or two, but she can't seem to stay still like she used to.
Edited 10/2/2002 12:32:57 PM ET by Jon Arno
But a discussion on clamps wouldn't be complete, in my mind, without mentioning the wonderful little yellow one-hand clamps. You might not use them to clamp up glue joints, but you use them for 1,001 other things around the shop. They're dirt-cheap and absolutely perfect for the many jobs they do.
A clamp is a clamp is a clamp is a ..... until you need something special. Like clamping up a staved assembly of 12 pieces. Three or four stainless steel hose clamps, the kind plumbers use for clamping the neoprene couplings of cast iron pipe work great.
Or some other irregular shaped piece that needs to be 'wound up' until the glue cures - save your kids' old bicycle inner tubes. Cut straight across for a small but tenacious "rubber band". Cut at increasingly more slanted angles for bigger and bigger bands. Or cut linear strips to simply wind around the piece like a boa constrictor.
I've been fortunate to have been around some pretty inventive millwork/woodworker types the past couple years who stress ingenuity over spending money.
Dennis in Bellevue WA [email protected]
Edited 10/2/2002 11:41:25 PM ET by DENNIS02
Like the others I have too many clamps "altogether" but never enough of one kind for a project. <vbg>
I got some of those offshore aluminum square tube clamps last year and find them handy in place of my pipe clamps which are heavy and can stain your wood if your not careful.
They come in various lengths to 5 feet and seem to put enough pressure on for carcasses and face frames.
I paid around $6.00 to $8.00 each for mine.
I also like the quick clamps in various lengths. They are one hand operation and seem to get used all over my shop for this and that.
Pace yourself... they all come on sale from time to time.
ST,
Never mind all this talk. Go over to Wood Craft's site. They're giving away $4000 worth of clamps. Then again, don't waste your time; I'm going to win them.
Jeff
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