Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 12, 2006 07:19pm | #1

   The best finish is none at all.  It will turn a lovely grey, and need only a sudsy wash down occasionally. 

   If you must have a clear finish you are destined to continuing maintenance.  The first step would be 1 or 2 coats of a low viscosity penetrating epoxy resin such as that from Smith & Co.  This waterproofs, but has no UV protection (epoxy resin chemistry isn't compatible with UV absorbers).  Then you need to add about 6 coats of high quality marine spar varnish, lightly sanded with 320 grit between each coat.  High quality means Epifanes Clear, Interlux Schooner, or Pettit Captain's.   Then, about every year (perhaps two as far north as you are),  you will need to sand lightly and apply another coat of varnish.  Patch any dings promptly.  The life could be preserved much longer if you used an opaque cloth cover--Sunbrella is the material to use--when not actually using the bench. 

   Short cuts mean eventual grey, but patchy and ugly until all the old finish is removed. 

1. 
   rickswoodworking | Jul 13, 2006 12:11am | #2

   hi steve,

   thanks very much for the reply and information.  leaving it natural is an option i'm definitely considering!  i am concerned about having to spend a lot of time each spring redoing everything!

   here's a picture of the bench:Rick in Cowichan Bay, B.C. - 50km north of Victoria, B.C.

   My Website:  http://www.rickswoodworking.ca

1. 
   Gretchen | Jul 13, 2006 02:31pm | #4

   There is the possibility of using the paint base.  Exterior oil based paint base that is used to mix pigmented paint is a clear finish.  On Wood Magazine's board there has been a test that indicates it lasts many many years in very challenging outdoor climates.

   Gretchen

   Edited 7/13/2006 7:32 am ET by Gretchen

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 13, 2006 04:47pm | #5

   Gretchen

   The tests you refer to were of short duration (a couple of years only) and without proper controls.  I'll wait until someone like Practical Sailor weighs in on the idea.   

1. 
   Gretchen | Jul 13, 2006 09:07pm | #8

   Maybe, but from your post, after a rather lengthy application of the finish you say

    "Then, about every year (perhaps two as far north as you are),  you will need to sand lightly and apply another coat of varnish."

   Seems like several years without "touch up" is better than this.Gretchen

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 13, 2006 11:49pm | #9

   The problem comes in the third year--when the situation could be well beyond touchup into complete removal.  The annual maintenance of varnish is prophylactic not specifically due to obvious deterioration.  The absolutely same degradation of UV absorbers is going on in the paint base. The chemistry of un-pigmented paint base and varnish can't be all that different, except that the formulators of the varnish KNOW that the finish won't have any benefit of pigment to protect the wood.  The makers of the paint base expect (wrongly in this case) that a substantial UV protective effect will be had from the pigment to be added.  It just defies logic to think that they somehow formulated their $30 per gallon product to be more protective, without the pigment, than the $25 per quart marine finish. That's why I would want to see some better tests before I would recommend this as an outdoor finish. 

   I am hopeful that Practical Sailor will include the paint base in their next round of the continuing varnish testing that they do.  I suggested it to them some months ago and their response indicated that they thought it was a interesting idea.  I don't know whether they are actually following through however. 

     

2. 
   Handrubbed | Jul 14, 2006 11:11pm | #10

   RWW, that is indeed a handsome bench and you have insprired me to produce one of my own.  Pardon the slight hijack of topic, but it is related:

   In all of this talk of finish or no finish, noone has questioned your choice of cedar wood for the project.  I have been in this bench making mode for weeks now, and in my research for design and materials the use of cedar was usually dismissed, except for one artcle that specified Spanish cedar.  The woods that seem to be recommended for outdoor use are: teak (eegads....expensive), mahogany, ipe (brutally hard and heavy), cypress (looks like pallet material), lyptus, and some other assorted ones.  The knock on cedar was the softness and light weight, I believe, and perhaps marginal overall durability in the out of doors.  Your bench looks like it resides on a beautiful porch that perhaps protects the bench from direct weather.  Mine needs to sit out in the elements.  One wood that I have seriously considered is white oak.  I have a lot of experience with working white oak, and I have read that it holds up well outdoors.  One thing I have already decided is that there will be no finish applied to the bench, regardless of my wood choice.

   Any thoughts on what I should do?

1. 
   rickswoodworking | Jul 15, 2006 12:45am | #11

   i'm puzzled as to why cedar would be dismissed for outdoor furniture?  the bench i made was featured on this month's cover of wood magazine and cedar was their recommended wood choice.

   also, here in b.c., cedar is the overwhelming favourite for outdoor work.  it is used almost exclusively for fences, decks, sidings and all other outdoor projects.  there is absolutely nothing wrong with the other woods you mentioned, but cedar is also great for these types of projects.Rick in Cowichan Bay, B.C. - 50km north of Victoria, B.C.

   My Website:  http://www.rickswoodworking.ca

1. 
   Handrubbed | Jul 15, 2006 04:49am | #13

   Thanks for the professional opinion and also to you FG for your usual good words.  Cedar it is and I will try to get a copy of Wood for a closer look at the dimensions.  Rick, I hope mine can approach your great result.

   Should I seal the end grain at bottom of the legs?

2. 
   rickswoodworking | Jul 15, 2006 05:01am | #14

   you're most welcome - but, please don't take my advice as a 'professional' opinion!  i'm not there yet - far from it!  i'm pretty much still a beginner at woodworking but i've tried as much as possible to learn from the real pros and experts around places like knots!

   as for sealing the end grain at the bottom of the legs?  definitely do that!  it has been recommended to me to use 5 minute epoxy for that job.

   rickRick in Cowichan Bay, B.C. - 50km north of Victoria, B.C.

   My Website:  http://www.rickswoodworking.ca

2. 
   forestgirl | Jul 15, 2006 01:43am | #12

   Cedar, white oak and cypress would be the 3 woods I'd consider (unless I won the lottery, and lost my moral compass, in which case I'd choose teak). forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

3. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 20, 2006 07:37pm | #15

   In addition to the species you listed, western red cedar, all-heart redwood, osage orange, and even amaranth, aka purpleheart, are all viable outdoor woods.

   As to the finish, I think I'd rather use a product like Penofin oil, reapplied yearly, than go through the rigors of spar varnish, particularly since I don't find the look of spar particularly "natural" looking.

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

1. 
   Handrubbed | Jul 20, 2006 11:56pm | #16

   Thanks to everyone for the info.  The bench , in Western red cedar, is now underway.  It will remain unfinished until I try some different things on scrap wood.  Probably will end up with nothing on it.  By the way, it is interesting how good something as common as cedar can look when it is hand-planed with a well-prepared iron.  My no. 7 has a couple of the leg components looking sweet already.  Any of you who are going from tablesaw to sander, like I used to, are really missing something.

2. 
   oldusty | Jul 13, 2006 12:54am | #3

   Hi Rick ,

              The bench looks great , nice job . Steve has given you a super mixture and it will produce a fairly long lasting finish . There is one other I could recommend and that is   " Daly's (sp)Sea Fin Teak Oil " Pronounced daily's, it is formulated for woodwork on boats and has always been expensive , but you can use a rag to apply and re coat as the instructions suggest .

           I have been up to your area several times and absolutely love it up there , the island is very nice . Was up in Campbell River fishing and have been to Butchart Gardens and done the Victoria visit as well .

                        good luck          dusty

3. 
   oldusty | Jul 13, 2006 08:41pm | #6

   Rick ,          Some good coats of Tung oil may also work well for your bench .

4. 
   BruceS | Jul 13, 2006 09:04pm | #7

   Good job,  I'de say if the bench is staying in that location let it go naturally gray, Like a lot of us on the forum.   The tile and stone will be very complimentary to the whole decor.

   Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S.