I cut 4 by 8 sheets of plywood recently for bookshelves and since the bookcase was 7 feet tall I ran them through my table saw. I did my best to keep ‘er straight and against the fence but even with that much weight to 3/4 inch ply the fence is prone to budge. Overall, I did not feel I got a precise cut for each length.
I have looked into other ways – such as using a circular saw and a straightedge. I have a Ryobi Cordless circular and I bought a plywood blade for it but I feel it is still underpowered as there was blade drift and it was really slow through the cut, even on a full charge.
I like the Festool plunge cut saw system but it is a pretty expensive option.
I thought of buying a corded circular saw for $150 after I buy a special blade to minimize chipping. I would need a straightedge as well.
Any recommendations for cutting large panels besides struggling with a a full sheet on the tablesaw? Thanks, Tom
Replies
Tom
The straight edge with circ saw is the way to go without a panel saw.
I have a Skill 77 that I sometime use when cutting panels. The rear handle of the 77 lets me reach across the board without straining.
The Festool has got panel cutting right, but in an expensive way.
_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Hi Tom,
I have a cheap corded Sears circular saw and a plywood blade on it. I lay the 4 X 8 sheet on top of a 4 X 8 sheet of rigid insulation, polystyrene that is 2 inches thick. Both are laying on the shop floor. The blade cuts shallow into the rigid insulation. All pieces are supported during and after the cut. I cut all pieces I need about 1/4" oversize and don't worry about chipping edges.
I them take them to the table saw with a Forrest blade and trim to desired final size. The individual pieces are alot easier to control than the entire sheet.
Great tip on the rigid insulation! Did you come up with it?
I also prefer to work on the floor when I have no help but so far have used 2x4's laying flat as my sacrificial support. It gets awkward try to shift them into position under the sheet. Thanks.
Ian
I second that "great idea" on the rigid foam insulation on the floor....
an idea i'll use
thanks
pony
I think you should submit the rigid insulation tip to FWW- great idea. I was planning on making a plywood rack with a 4x8 side that folded down to the floor, and a 1x3 crisscross frame to act as the sacrificial surface for plywood sizing, but the foam is cheaper, more stable, easy to replace, and fast!
As far as the straight edge, I've seen numerous articles using a long straight plywood fence, and a sled of masonite screwed to the plywood fence and cut by your circular saw to get an exact edge for lining up the cut. One of these days I'll make one, in the meantime the ceapo johnson 8ft aluminum fence works ok for me.
I do that all the time but my foam is on saw-horses and three straight 2X4.. .. I'm old and my back hurts if I get to the floor.. Really works well for me...
good idea I wish I had the flor space to do this
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No dedicated space needed.No dedicated saw and not expensive tools or blades.and the same tools setup can be use for jointing lumber,tapered /compound cuts on narrow strips down to ZERO. and whatever cut you can imagine. Imagine that.
Cutting in the floor is no good for your back.
EZ Dino. your carpenter friend.
Edited 1/23/2005 9:37 am ET by YCFriend
Virtual Reality! I need THAT in my wood shop!
Really NICE Pictures!
Edited 1/23/2005 3:56 pm ET by Will George
I think you hit the spot Will. My partners at the machine shop need to cut few pieces of plexi. And they ask me if I knew someone because they don't have the room or the equipment. Do you believe that? We was making the EZ Smart there for one year. And they build that prototype table.
Anyway.here is the rest of the pictures.
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No need to look for your clamps.No need to move the guide rail and the saw every time and no need to handle the panel 100 times. Is like virtual reality or a Manual CNC to go.
Do you believe that we spend 5B. for woodworking accidents on hospitals only per year?
Thanks Will.
YCF Dino
Donc4,
Do you use any guide for the cuts? I like that idea because you don't have to deal with handling such a large panel...Regards,
Buzzsaw
Tom,
I either use two people, one to feed and one to guide the wood through the TS or I use a stright edge and circular saw. If you have a good, stable and perfectly alligned roller system, you can do it with one person. I'm asuming you have reasonably solid and adequately powered table saw.
Doug
fence is prone to budge???
What are U using a bench top table saw?
Ripping sheet goods isn't hard to do on the table saw it just how you do it.
Fence is on the right side of the blade so you want to get on the back left corner of the sheet.-walk it through till you are 2/3 the way then get in the middle back of the sheet to finish the cut.
Ron
I always cut oversize with the circular saw and ignore the chipout, then do the final cut on the TS. Anything you can do to cut down the weight first will help you better control the piece as you're cutting to final size on the TS. I've used various things for straight edges in the past but lately I've been using a rip guide that attaches to the circ saw that I picked up at Sears. It's not quite as exact as a straight edge but since I'm doing the final cuts on the TS it doesn't really matter. It's quite a bit quicker to set up for each cut though.
I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.
I use anti-kickback rollers when cutting plywood and I have to say, it's amazing how much extra control you have. All you have to do is feed it through...that and use a decent sawblade...
Tom
I'm not trying to push a tool on you but you did mention the Festool system.
http://www.eurekazone.com/
This isn't all that cheap but much cheaper than the festool.
Everybody that I know that has one loves it. I think I know 5 people that have it.
There are several threads on BT regarding similar situations to yours and one of the makers/workers/salesmen/goodwill ambassador (not sure of his position) to the EZ system hangs out there.
I'm not affiliated with this company in any way, just know a few satisfied customers.
Doug
Chipping & splintering is a subject all onto itself, but here are a couple pointers:
Since a portable circular saw comes thru the cut from the bottom, you might mark & cut from the 'hidden' side (if there is one) so the chipping won't show.
For cross-cuts on paper-thin hardwood veneer plywood, use a straight edge first to score thru at the cut-line with a case knife. Two or three passes will sever the top hardwood ply. Then use a guide making darn sure your cut won't stray inside your sever-line.
Hmm… I wonder if they meant to write:
¼ tsp of cayenne pepper instead of ¼ lb ?
Oh well – too late to worry about it now !
Hi Left-overs Where do you find this name? I like it.
Chipping & splintering is a subject all onto itself, but here are a couple pointers:
Since a portable circular saw comes thru the cut from the bottom, you might mark & cut from the 'hidden' side (if there is one) so the chipping won't show.
For cross-cuts on paper-thin hardwood veneer plywood, use a straight edge first to score thru at the cut-line with a case knife. Two or three passes will sever the top hardwood ply. Then use a guide making darn sure your cut won't stray inside your sever-line.
No More chipping & splintering. And no more blue tape and scoring.No more cutting on the dark side of the panel. And with the ZERO positiong cutting line and ZERO flexing of the guide rail.......No more tricks of the trade. Now I'm in trouble. EZ Dino.
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I think... We should go to Sahara.
I think... We should go to Sahara.
No!!! Stay here. This is interesting.
You see? I told you Bush is going to be re-elected.
Forget about Bush. Can you tell me why blue and not any other color/? Where is Turnstyler and Bop? Can you ask them for me?
Ok. I do it. Why guys? Please tell him so he can leave me alone.
Thanks.
Hey Gang,
Hopping over the fence from Breaktime since I saw this thread. I have 2 of the SmartGuide systems, one for the shop and one for the road. I use them extensively, and recently got their router guide accessory. Although I don't own a Festool system I have used their setup, as well as many others mentioned here including shopmade shooting boards. Now that I'm using the SmartGuide, anything else is like using a plastic picnic knife. They have many advantages over any other system I've ever seen, at any price. Some of them are:
Bidirectional- The saw can cut to either side of the guide equally well, with zero offset on both sides. This also means that if you damage one edge, as I have done, you just flip the guide around and keep working.
Works with any saw (although for maximum benefit, RH blade is preferable)
Zero splintering on either side of the kerf. (leave the masking tape at home ;) ) And gives you the same zero splintering even without the guide.
Much more rigid extrusions than any other system I've ever seen, zero deflection even on 100" cuts. And a much stronger more secure system for joining track sections.
Incredible clamping system gives you safer cuts even on tiny narrow workpieces, and can double as a mobile workstation.
The router guide accessory is phenomenal. They refer to it as the closest thing to a handheld CNC and they aren't kidding.
Those are some quick thoughts off the top of my head, but happy to answer any other questions...
PaulB
If the base of the circular saw is a bit out of parallel with the blade, you can struggle to get a good cut and move the blade through the wood. It doesn't take too much out of whack (just as little as the teeth are offset) to cause the blade to bind. The symptom of this is that the blade seems to cut hard even when new, and you get heat and smoke. Before buying a new saw, check for this. Unfortunately, the fix is sometimes getting a new saw.
Use a corded saw with a straight edge. Put a sharp 40 tooth combination lade in saw.Make straight edge from a 12" x96" x1/4"panel of either plywood or masonite. Add a straight piece to the plywood, keep the straight piece back far enough so you rip the plywood on the first cut. This cut is the edge you clamp on your panel.
Now set the saw for a 3/16" or so cut. This will be a scoring cut so the plywood does not chip. Start at far end of panel, lift guard enough to clear the straight edge, start saw, PULL saw backwards.Let guard down to contact straightedge. This is easy as you are only scoring, not cutting thru. Then set the saw base so a full tooth projects beyond panel. Finish cut by pushing saw as you normally would.Now you have a straight and chip free piece. If you want you can rip oversize and rerip on table saw.If straightedge is good and saw is decent you do not need to rerip.Never use a plywood blade on plywood that is thicker than 3/8", unless the cuts are short such as a crosscut. Plywood blades have to many teeth, they heat up on long and thicker cuts, that's why the blade warped.If you need a straightedge, you can either take the factory edge of a panel or buy a 2x2" aluminum angle from any hardware store or HD.
mike
I had the same decision to make as you. I considered the Festool, but went with a less expensive option that has worked well. I went and got the PC CS ($130.00). It is very accurate and combined that with a forrest 7.25 blade. I also got the 50" Clamp N tool guide ($42). I put the plywood on 4 saw horses separated by the cutting line. I use the cheap plastic ones from sears. I connect my shop vac to the dust pick up on my saw and there is little dust. This gets things down to manageable size and I use the table saw after that for rips. I like the PC because it's guide edge is 5" from the blade on one side and 2 1/4 from the other. I use a square to get the clamp tool square and away it goes. I have cut sheets of mdf this way with very little dust. I have got edges that could be glued. The Forrest blade is great. Take care.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=325
Of course the best way would be a panel saw, but I can't afford that. The festool would be nice, and if you can afford it, go for it.
Edited 1/21/2005 12:08 pm ET by bones
I've always like the looks (and price!) of the Penn State panel saw system. Take a look here.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Anybody ever use a tin stud for a panel cutting straightedge? They are straight, light, thin to clamp and cheap. About 1.5 to 2 bucks a piece.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions - I appreciate the product recommendations - I like learning about new tool systems. I like ForrestGirl's idea. I realized that what MikeK said about the warping of the blade made a lot of sense. I think the plywood blade was probably too little for my test pieces of 3/4 inch plywood.
I tried the two person approach - I have a General Int'l Contractor's saw and it has a decent fence but I was pushing the ply at the left corner too much and the fence did move. I like the idea of doing the over cut with the CS and finishing on the TS as suggested. The problem with that is when I worked on my bookcase I was taking an 8 foot by 10.5 inch piece of plywood and tried doing a lot of cross cuts to make the shelves. THis was too tough to do as my table saw has no side extensions or sled so again the CS with guide may be my best bet for doing a similar project like this again.
Thanks for all of your comments. - Tom
Tom, I've had a similar problem with my old Jet fence moving (my plywood "feeding" technique is sadly lacking). To eliminate the movement, I have either clamped the back end of the fence to the table, or clamped a piece of wood on the far side of the fence to block it from moving.
A friend of mine came over to use the fence to cut oak ply a few weeks back. He worked in a cabinet shop for a couple of years, and he made it look so easy! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I saw that rigid insulation tip in another magazine a few years back. So getting it into FWW should be out of the question because they want original unpublished tips/articles.
I try to get the people I'm buying the plywood from to cut it on their panel saw before I leave. Like at Lowe's or HD. Rough oversized dimensions though.
I bought a set of 3 aluminium straight edge guides a few years back. A 2 footer, 4 footer, and an 8 footer. Came with UHMW bases. One for the router and one for the circular saw. I've never attached the CS base to my saw yet. The straight edge guide is an extrusion with channels in it to match up with tongues in the bases.
It is called the TRU GRIP straight edge and clamping guide by Grisset Industries out of Santa Anna, CA.
If you can save your pennies, the Festool system is hard to beat. I have been using one for about a year and you will find that it is certainly worth it. I cut three sheets of veneered plywood over the weekend and the cuts are as good as I get on my tablesaw. The Festool rail has a rubber lip that helps to reduce tearout and works pretty well. If I really want to avoid any tearout, I put a piece of the blue painters masking tape on the top where the cut line is, you don't need to worry about the bottom. Be sure to take the tape off shortly after the cut so it won't leave any residue that might become a problem when finishing.
Only thing I have found that I don't like about the Festool system is that you can't plunge cut in the middle of a piece because the built in riving knife (they probably call it something else) won't let you. On the other hand, when making an 8' cut with 3/4 sheets of plywood, the riving knife has eliminated the blade bindings I used to get if I failed to properly support the piece and the cutoff piece sagged a little.
I had used the clamp n tool guide in the past. It works well for getting close, but I found that it had too much slop, even when fully locked down to give precise cuts. Not bad, just not precise.
If I really want to avoid any tearout, I put a piece of the blue painters masking tape on the top where the cut line is, you don't need to worry about the bottom. Be sure to take the tape off shortly after the cut so it won't leave any residue that might become a problem when finishing.
BAP. Thanks for the tip.
EZ Dino
An easier way is to let the lumber yard do it. Every yard I have ever been to will do one cut for free and where you specify. Even Home Depot and Lowes will do it. They won"t make precision cuts, +/- 1/32" but they should get it within 1/8". They use panel saws and I have always been satisfied.
An easier way is to let the lumber yard do it. Every yard I have ever been to will do one cut for free and where you specify. Even Home Depot and Lowes will do it. They won"t make precision cuts, +/- 1/32" but they should get it within 1/8". They use panel saws and I have always been satisfied.
Ditto to that idea. Sounds better than cutting in the floor.
And if you put some blue tale on the cutting line, you good to go.
Next.
EZ Dino
Not sure why that message was addressed to me, but yes my local lumberyard (and I use the term loosely) will cut for free -- I usually sweet-talk 'em into 2 or 3 cuts at least. But those cuts sure as heck aren't pretty. They cut 'em so I can fit the plywood into the little Jimmy (like a Blazer S-10) and I do the finish cuts either with a circular saw and plywood blade, or the tablesaw with a good blade.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
fg
For a little bit more money you can get the EZ system and it is far superior to the Penn State deal.
http://www.eurekazone.com/products/ezsmartguide.html
Doug
Edited 1/21/2005 10:24 pm ET by Doug@es
i have the smaller of the 2 festool saws and like it well. all you need is the rail and saw. It is a safe option for cross cutting large pieces that you feel unsafe on your TS.
I can get good 90 degree cuts closer than 1/2mm precision. Acceptable for much cabinet work but not amazing.
You can not compare it to a straight edge and a normal circular saw in price or performance... its a different system all together.
I am a big festool fan.
every tool they make is designed for very good dust collection.
The saw and rail is also good for wood floor work.
j
TURNSTYLER .
Do you knew about the blue tape?
YCF Dino
Edited 1/24/2005 12:44 am ET by YCFriend
I just posted somewhere here my description and photos of my plywood cutter. (there doesn't seem to be search button anywhere)
I took three pieces of aluminum channel and made a braced right angle straghtedge guide. I clamped my Skill 77 (a higher rpm sidewinder would be better and they're usually cheaper than the wormdrive) to a piece of ply attached to a grooved 2x3 that rides along the channel. I put a bolt adjustment do-hickey on one end of the brace. It's dead accurate.
I cut a lot of 1/2" 5'x5' baltic birch ply into finger jointed drawers. The bb ply sheets are almost never square. With my jig I can quickly rough cut them perfectly square within 1/8 inch and then set-up the table saw to trim to standard dimensions. The guide I made makes it dead simple to glue up the drawers that are square and interchangable.
I tried to attach the photo here. It's about 9' long, I use Visgrips to clamp it at the base and at the top. I'll usually fit a block of wood into the channel at the bottom and then cut into with the saw-establishing the cut-off line. I leave it laying around and check the adjustment about once a year. The only thing like it is a wall mounted panel saw.
Depending on the number of sheets you have I would stack them all on saw horses (A side down. Be sure to protect the A side) and use the top sheet as your straight edge. Block under the sheet your cutting to keep the blade out of the material below. Its a quik way to cut many parts.
Aside from lifting the 3/4" ply up on the saw, ripping plywood on a tablesaw shouldn't be too difficult.
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