Hi everyone, I’m looking for some information about paint & I think this is just the right place to ask for help!
We are having kitchen cabinets made by a local cabinetmaker, & they are almost complete. Now I need to choose a paint asap!
The cabinets are inset, shaker style. Our cabinetmaker will be painting them with a sprayer. I would like them to be painted white. Our kitchen is old english country in design.
I am trying to decide between Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo Enamel (new), or Sherwin Williams Pro-Classic Acrylic Enamel. I have heard/read good things about these two paints. I was first considering oil-based paints but have now reconsidered due to the fact that they may “yellow” with age.
What is the BEST paint for wood cabinets? Which has the most durable finish, & rich color? (we have 3 kids!)
Has anyone here used Ben Moore “white” 01?
Any suggestions are appreciated, thanks all!
rachel
Replies
I have used the Ben Moore Impervo and found it to be great paint. I haven't tried it on kitchen cabinets.
I vote for Benny Moore the only paint i'll ever use.
M. L. Campbell Post catalyzed white lacquer. It is the top rated finish by the kitchen design folks. Bullet proof...
Mr Moore's finast is what we use, but then we're in his backyard...
FWIW - our experience is oil-based enamels stay cleaner a lot longer than water-based finishes. This may have more to do with choices of paint, type of finish, or my personal preference for the smell of oil-based to water-based paints. :-)
Ben Moore. Whatever you do stay away from HomeDepot's BEHR paints. My partner bought some to repaint a small bathroom...it is without a doubt the worst paint I have ever come across.
Cheers,
Peter
englishkitcn
Bravo-Mike ...... Another for Benjamin Moore !!
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks everyone for all the recommendations! Seems like Ben Moore is a favorite so far!
<FWIW - our experience is oil-based enamels stay cleaner a lot longer than water-<based finishes. This may have more to do with choices of paint, type of finish
edharrow, thanks for your reply. Do you mean that oil-based enamels are easier to clean? More durable? Or would the oil-based white paint actually stay "whiter" than water-based? From what I have been told the oil-based paints will definately "yellow" with age, whereas the water-based enamels will not. Everyone I have talked to first recommends the oil-based over the water for durability, but then says it will yellow with age. Does this mean that the water-based will not keep clean as well, or will chip more easily?
Benjamin Moore has a new water-based Satin Impervo, has anyone here used it or does anyone know anything about it?
So, I guess another big question I have for everyone here is, should I go with OIL-based or WATER-based enamel for my cabinets??
I want the best, most beautiful & durable finish, but equally as important, I don't want the paint to yellow in any way as it ages. I have heard that the water-based enamels have improved much in recent years, & are now comparable to the oil-based. Is this true?
I need to make a paint decision asap so any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance!
rachel
What you have is not necessarily "site consensus" but some solid experience on the Impervo. We too have used this paint extensively through our house on trim and I have used it on some bookshelves and it has worked very well.
I would not discount the Pro Classic yet, however. Do a search. On another thread there were three or four people highly recommending that S-W paint. So much so, I am in the process of an experiment with it. I am using it to paint a vanity in the kids bathroom (HVLP sprayer). If it works well, I will consider using it to spray our entire kitchen cabinets. Wish I could have the advice now, but project just starting.
Good luck and let us know what you decide and how it turns out.
Water based paints are softer than oil based paints. Oil based paints will "chip" easier but are unlikely to do so, and water based paints will mar and wear faster in an interior application.However, water based paints will not yellow like oil-based. I've used a lot of different brands, and I agree BM is one of the best.
Notwithstanding budget constraints, automotive acrylic enamel will be the absolute tops in terms of non-yellowing, stain and chip resistance. I painted a "harvest gold" refridgerator once and it looked great for another 10 years depsite two little ones. I just used garden variety Dupont appliance white, but if memory serves it was $26 a quart about $15 years or so back. I don't think I'd use it on large wood panels, but on properly primed (automotive of course) MDF panels it would do well.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
"edharrow, thanks for your reply. Do you mean that oil-based enamels are easier to clean? More durable? Or would the oil-based white paint actually stay "whiter" than water-based? From what I have been told the oil-based paints will definately "yellow" with age, whereas the water-based enamels will not. Everyone I have talked to first recommends the oil-based over the water for durability, but then says it will yellow with age. Does this mean that the water-based will not keep clean as well, or will chip more easily?"
I think most of your questions here have been answered...
Experience - kitchen door, white BM oil-base enamel. Painted over five years ago, easily the most handled door in the house, still looks great. Living room closet door, BM latex white "enamel" Fingerprints, dirty spots, generally yucky. Painted more recently (and again yesterday, LOL). This door is one of the least used doors in the house and it was a mess.
I'm not suggesting that there may not be better choices, but between these two options, I know which I would pick (of course given still more choices I'd probably make the same pick, LOL). Luddites unite!
Benjamin Moore is good, Sherwin Williams is also good. For most jobs, I've found them to be about equal.
I disagree with the assessment of Behr paints some people have. I actually think they are pretty good. Not as good as Sherwin Williams, but definitely good.
The worst paints would have to be Sears, which I used when I bought my first house and didn't know what I was doing. I learned fast!
Moore Impervo and SW Pro-Classic are both great trim paints, but I would never use either of them on kitchen cabs. Neither one, in oil or waterbase is anywhere near as tough as cat laquer, nor will you get as good a finish when sprayed. SW makes a terrific cat laquer, and they can tint to any color they have, or for a reasonable fee they will send a sample of something you want to match (piece of tile, fabric, another companies color) to their lab in Maine and have it matched perfectly.
CL-
You're not the first person to recently suggest shooting pigmented lacquer for kitchen doors. Several other very experienced finishers have suggested the same on other threads.
Couple of questions for you in that regard. Sure would appreciate learning from your experience.
1) Was always worried about spraying pigmented lacquers. Finish is so good that I was afraid any mistakes and / or a little dust would be more easily telegraphed and seen in a lacquer finish.
2) Want to "paint" a previously finished set of oak kitchen doors. Is a pigmented lacquer a good choice for this application? Was thinking that the pores might represent a problem
3) With respect to the question above, what kind of prepping would you do? Scuff sand to 150? Wipe down with spirits?
4) Will a normal paint store know how to alter colors of a waterbased lacquer? How is it done?
5) Any other secrets you can share?
Concern about dust is probably the biggest reason to use pigmented laquer. It dries so fast that dust doesn't have time to settle into the finish. I have sprayed perfect coats on simple objects like shelves in a dusty shop where you wouldn't even consider spraying paint. It does show imperfections, but the laquer based primer that SW sells for use with the pigmented laquer sands butter smooth. I usually keep one gun full of it all the time, and I can sand about five or so minutes after it's sprayed, so if there are blemishes in the piece I just sand, prime, sand, prime until it's perfect. SW should be able to mix it for you, my local store does. They use universal colorants, and in the same ratio and formula as they do for normal paint. Their regular colors will be especially easy to mix, since they already have the formulas. Also this way you can just have your client pick the color they want right out of the regular color wheel. As for your oak doors, you probably need to fill the grain first. They have some good grain fillers at homestead finishing, that's where I buy all my stuff. It's still going to be alot of work to make the oak look good, especially along the raised panel edges and end grain. Many coats of primer and sanding by hand. I would consider buying new paint grade doors. We get poplar or soft maple frame with an MDF panel for paint grade, pretty cheap.
CL you are talking pre/post cat and he is talking water based. Is there water based cat???
I believe there is but I have never used it. And I should have mentioned it, but if you don't want to deal with the hassle of catalyzing, you can also get nitro, CAB acrylic, or water based lacquers tinted to any color you want. They aren't as durable as catalyzed, but probably just as durable as oil or water based paint, and a hell of a lot easier to spray and repair.
So, I shot some S-W acrylic enamel ProClassic through an HVLP gun over the weekend. Not bad, not great. Here is my technique and my observations.
First, added about 15% Floetrol to the ProClassic and then thinned it about 10% - thinned with denatured alcohol as recommended by several people on another thread. Shot the paint with an Accuspray #14 gun with a .51 needle / nozzle and a the matching air cap (I think it was a "10). The gun was turbine powered with a small 23K three stage turbine.
The atomization was still a little bit "chunky", but with the Floetrol it flattened out fairly well. given all the Floetrol and alcohol, I really didn't want to thin it any more than that. It may have been that I was trying to spray too much material, but I am not sure that was it. Laying the doors flat on a horizontal surface, the finish flattened out pretty well, but did have a slight orange peel effect to it. Overall, the finish was very acceptable to cabinet doors. Any thoughts as to what I could have done to improve atomization?
One thing I did notice is that it would get some very tiny and thin-filmed bubbles on the service of the piece. Some bubbles broke and flattened out and some bubbles did not, leaving a super-micro fish eye effect. I was spraying on oak. Thought that maybe it was caused by air trapped in the grain, but cannot say if the grain caused it. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why this bubbled?
Can say that this paint bubbled a bit more that usual, period. I used a foam micor-roller to lay some unthinned paint down on a surface and it bubbled quite a bit. I had to come back after the paint had cured for a few minutes and slowly hit it with the roller to take away the bubbles. It then left a somewhat stippled finish. Is this common with this paint or is it becuase of the foam micro roller?
my experience points to http://www.finepaints.com as by far the best paints available over the counter. They are expensive but worth the money. BTW, you don't need to order them online, I found several local paint stores carrying them.
I have used BM Satin Impervo (alkyd) for 25 years, and have just finished using this product to paint a set of oak kitchen cabinets.
Here are my thoughts on the issue:
1) I have very little experience with Sherwin Williams products, but I would think they have a line that is every bit as good as Bejamin Moore. Over the last 10 years or so, I think the general quality of BM has gone down hill; for reasons of price, I would guess they are putting less pigment in their paints, which means you have to apply more coats.
2) Satin Impervo is an alkyd paint, and I would imagine your cabinet maker would much prefer to spray the cabinets with a pigmented lacquer. Any of the lacquers would be more durable over the long run than alkyd paint. And they are much easier to spray than an alkyd paint. I have not tried the latex version of Satin Impervo, but the same comment applies concerning durability re: paint vs. lacquer.
3) Alkyd vs. latex/acrylic paint? The former is way tougher, and yields a smoother finish. However, alkyd takes about 7 days to cure, and doesn't reach its maximum hardness for about 30 days. Thus, if you start sliding dishes over a freshly painted shelf, the paint will show scuff marks.
4) There is a simple fix for enhancing the durability of any painted surface (particularly shelves): After the paint has cured for 7 days, lightly scuff the surface with 220 sandpaper, and apply one coat of any good water-based polyurethane. I first did this on some pantry shelves I built for a client about 15 years ago, and when I saw them again recently, the paint looked as though it had been applied last week.
5) Yellowing with Alkyd? I think this is a bogus concern. Unless you do a side-by-side, comparison, you will never notice.
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