Replies

1. 
   GettinTher | Sep 10, 2007 02:32am | #1

   Bob,

   The Mrs. is the finisher in our operation.  Whenever we want a dark stain finish, and we don't mind obscuring the original grain, she uses Olympic One Step, which is an oil-based polyurethane with stain blended in. 

   She has used the satin "Traditional Walnut" to produce a silky smooth consistent color on a variety of woods--mahogany, cherry, maple, oak, and pine.  They all end up looking about the same.  She normally applies this with a brush; and can use the brush to produce what looks like grain when she wants to.  She has also tried gloss, but with less attractive results.

   Granted, this method doesn't stay true to the wood, but can help quite a bit whenever you need to match pieces or are working with a species that tends to blotch (e.g., maple).

   Good luck

   Danny

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Sep 10, 2007 06:58am | #2

   To stain a wood dark without obscuring the grain, I would choose an analine dye as opposed to a stain.  The dye will never blotch, as it penetrates evenly into the wood and it will never cover the grain regardless of how thick or how many coats you apply, like stain will.

   Chris @ flairwoodworks

3. 
   SteveSchoene | Sep 10, 2007 03:22pm | #3

   I agree with Danny's dye suggestion since this will significantly reduce blotching.  Then seal that with a dewaxed shellac and use a gell stain to further imitate the commercial finish by obscuring more of the grain which probably used a combination of sprayed on dye and toners to achieve the look.  Without spray capabilities it is really hard to imitate factory finishes.  It's not hard to get a superior looking finish, just difficult to duplicate the factory. 

   Make sure your clients sign off on your proposed finish schedule preferably by comparing it to the existing furniture in the same light that it will ultimately reside.  You run the risk of having what looks like an exact match in your shop lighting look quite a bit different in their home.

   Using the dye simplifies the wood choice quite a bit though you still want to avoid paint grade materials with a wide range of coloration differences.  I suspect maple would work about as well as other choices.   

1. 
   Dave45 | Sep 10, 2007 04:15pm | #4

   Whatever else you do, make enough sample pieces to know that you have a good match before you do it for real.  In my experience, you can drive yourself bananas trying to get it right.

   I have a finish guy who is an absolute magician.  When I get into a "match the color" job, I take a door or drawer front to him and let him tell me what wood species to use.  That's worked great for 5-6 jobs over the past couple of years.

4. 
   Drew1house | Sep 11, 2007 12:41am | #5

   Try Alder... it takes stain well and stains dark nicely... if there is any issue with it it is that it is a bit softer than cherry.

   Drew

5. 
   DonC | Sep 11, 2007 04:28am | #6

   I just used General Finishes ebony gel stain called Java. It's better that jet black ebony. It's very dark yet can still see grain.

   They, of course, also sell nice wipe-on clear finishes.

   The job I did was on mahogany and I used their acrylic for the first time. I like the fast dry and reapply time. Crystal clear finish but looks bad on dark woods and quite excellent on light woods. But for this job of Java (ebony) I chose the acrylic because the stained wood was sooo dark.

   I like to stain poplar,soft maple,or aspen. Soft maple and poplar have cathedrials in the grain where aspen does not.

1. 
   bob k | Sep 12, 2007 08:56pm | #7

   Thanks for all the good ideas. I have decided to explore ebonizing with an acetic acid (vinegar) and steel wool mixture. I got some 25% acid white vinegar at an Asian food market, and the elixer is brewing now.I have told my prospective customer that I can't promise a perfect color match, but that an ebonized piece would make a nice contrast. I'll present to him a sample after I've tested it on different woods, and hope for the best. I've been down the road enough to be able to smell a potential disaster, and have often been able to steer the project toward processes I know I can control. If I don't get it, life will go on...Thanks again,
   Bob

1. 
   DonC | Sep 13, 2007 01:15am | #8

   Hi Bob,

   I saw Mark Adams advocate this method. Don't do it bud. Go for my General Finishes Java advice.

   You won't have any call backs. The "homebrew" method is lame/inferior/not acceptable/purty good but lacking/raises the grain/more labor intensive,ect.

   Been there done that. BIG mistake.

   Edited 9/12/2007 6:21 pm ET by DonC

1. 
   bob k | Sep 13, 2007 03:35pm | #9

   Thanks, Don. As it turned out, the prospective customer had an unrealistic idea of what things cost anyway, so I agreed to make him the piece unfinished. He's going to paint it himself.So, at this point, I'm just experimenting to see how far I can push the home brew method, trying it on different woods to see if it has any value. I gues I am drawn to trying a method like this since I had good luck fuming white oak, which was easy. I like the ebonized look as a contrast to natural cherry and will also get some Java and compare the two.Anyway, thanks for the extra effort.Bob

6. 
   Pondfish | Sep 14, 2007 01:57pm | #10

   Maple is really bad for staining, especially dark, wipe-on stains.  The blotching can be truly horrendous if you don't use a wood conditioner...and if you do use a conditioner, it's hard to get a dark color into the wood.  The quality of maple is going down the tubes and it is making staining more difficult.

   So, don't use maple if you are using stains.  Dyes are what I recommend, too.

   Oak stains easily, but isn't always the grain that you might want.   You can get oak pretty black using colorants that react with the tannins (ammonia, iron-based washes, etc.)

   As for best wipe-on color, the stains that Conestoga uses work pretty well, but I still think dyes are the way to go. 

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
1. 
   bob k | Sep 14, 2007 02:46pm | #11

   Thanks. Several people have recommended using aniline dyes. I have heard that they are not color-fast and will fade in time. Has anybody experienced this happening, or not happening?

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 14, 2007 06:47pm | #12

   Bob, Jeff Jewitt has some excellent information on his site (Homestead Finishing) about dyes.  I followed his advice when selecting a dye to even out some walnut for a project, but there's lots more at the site.

   "All our other dye colors should perform fine in most indoor situations, however, the best performers we offer are the TransTint¯ Dyes (except the color blue). Our TransTint¯ metallized dyes offer the best lightfastness you can get with a dye stain.  However, they are not rated for exterior use. 

   If you are unsure of the lightfastness of a dye in any given situation, remember that pigment based stains offer the best lightfastness. Another option is to glaze over the dye with a pigment based colorant to protect the dye underneath or use a finish with an UV absorber to protect light sensitive substrates."forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)