I have always been fond on Delta tools and my entire shop is full of Delta equipment. I am now in Iraq and have the opportunity to build a wood shop here, what would you consider to be the very best table saw available. I have had numerious problems with my attempts to order a Delta saw. I have several projects ahead of me at this point and quality is the top priority. donny
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Replies
Is this an opportunity to think outside the 'square' and buy a Euro slider? Start at MiniMax and work your way up. Anything at that quality you'll just love!
Malcolm
0.06% of the world's people are Kiwis
Start at MiniMax and work your way up.. Gee ya got Government backing on that Loan?
IRAQ.. You got electric I hope!!! Just banging BUSH here a bit!
I guess I can cus I had letcric' only from my Tank Retriver a few times way back in time 1960 or so!
Edited 5/19/2005 12:08 pm ET by Will George
Kiwi's got a point. What type table saw do you want? If it's North American style then recent word is that the top quality ones are General 350 and SawStop. The former has excellent lineage and is a good bet for spare parts for many decades. The latter is an excellent heavy, smooth, and precise saw that also happens to have some safety features. You should also give serious consideration to a Euro slider. Seems like I've heard good things about the Felders.
I appreciate the input, I also did some research and ordered a general 550 12 inch saw which will take up to 14 inch blade. It was five thousand but I believe it will be the best saw all around. I do appreciate your comments. donny
I wasn't thinking beyond 10". Sounds like a good choice. Enjoy the saw!
I'm curious as to why you don't go with a slider? Plenty of decent 4' ones available, some even take a dado.
I have never used one myself. In my shop at home I have a left tilt and a right tilt, I usually leave the dado head on one to keep it simple. I built a slide table that i use occasionally. What would be the advantage? donny
Guess it depends on what you do. We do a lot of sheet stock and crosscut a lot of table tops and solid doors. Plus it does the double duty of a compound miter saw and radial arm saw. We have those as well but it gives 3 extra tools when the others are tied up for certain applications. Ours is a Griggio 4' slider and I have access to an 8' Paolini slider at a local school where I maintain the equipment. I'm used to the convenience so it's hard to go back to regular cabinet type saws for my applications.
Do you mind me asking what you are doing in Iraq? Sounds like a good gig.
Mike
Very best table saw made ... $5000 ... Iraq ...
Anybody else suspect it's their 1040 payment that's ultimately buying this?
Clay
My 1040 will more than take care of the saw. I am not a full time soldier but belong to the guard and worked a civilian job, or I did until September 2004, and hope to do so again sometime in 2006. Quality equipment is necessary as it will be used by numerious craftmen some not as skilled as others. We are here to rebuild a portion of Iraq, only a small portion. In doing so some of the schools will receive some desk that are needed. I will attach a web link that I have posted while here, in this link you will see some of the equipment that I have used to date, one a table saw built with a skill saw. One of the projects was a display stand for the boots and weapon for one of our fallen soldiers. I hope in doing this work here it will help some of the children and make a difference. I also hope that in the safety of your home you don't begroudge the money for the saw, if so post your reply and I will gladly cancel the order first thing tomorrow. donny link belowhttp://spaces.msn.com/members/landofiraq/
Thanks for the work you do in the guard. We appreciate that you do and the sacrafices your family endures
John
Thanks for your reply Mr. John it is an honor to do my part for our great country. I have served in several different countries over the years and it is trully the grace of god that we have the privilege to live in America. I join the guard at the age of seventeen, that was more than thirty-six years ago. This has been very trying time for my wife and I but we will survive. If Mr. Mike thinks this is the wrong thing to do I will cancel the order. I guess I chose the wrong word on my first inquiry, I was asking for the best saw, thinking about the Brand of saw, I know there are almost no limits as to what you can spend on a saw and I do have limitations. I am a man of my word and will do as I say. donny
I too want to express my gratitude for all you guys do.Thanks,
Michael
That's better...I was wondering about that from your first post, like what are u doing over there and wanting a table saw....
Donny I can not speak for everyone, but I do not begrudge you for anything. If anything I would buy it for you if I could. I think you are doing a great job and I am proud to call you a fellow American. My wife and I pray for you and your buddies safty and safe return home all the time. Take care my friend and let me know if their is anything I can do for you.
Wade
donny
My family and I thank you from the bottom of our red, white, and blue hearts for the work that you and your fellow brothers and sisters are doing over there. Keep your eyes up and your head down, and enjoy your new saw!
Jeff
> .... and quality is the top priority....
What we see on TV news every day makes that a surprising statement. From all reports, it would seem that the top priorities for any American in Iraq should be not getting kidnapped, blown up, or shot. That you're tooling up to do high quality woodworking for the schools just doesn't fit the mass media image.
Can you fill us in on the difference between reality and TV news, or is that just too big a task?
Don't worry about the form 1040 money -- mine'll cover half a dozen of those saws.
-- J.S.
There are thousands of troops here, the concern for each and everyone I am certain is to go home safe. I came here to post a simple question because as a woodworker and beinging from the south I thought it would be just that simple. The media does what they do to draw your attention, what I do here isn't likely to interest them. With the temperature well above a hundred, an excess of fifty pounds of body armour, the every present dust and sun what would be your personal concerns Mr. John? Would it be the car you meet on the four lane road traveling the wrong direction as they often do, would that concern you. The children by the hundreds standing on the side of the road making motions with there hands begging for food and water, would that concern you? Then the reports pass thru your mind of one of your fellow soldiers having died from a car bomb just because he was here, the people here look at life entirely different than we do, and have no apparent fear of dying. No this "tooling up for a high quality wood working project" is not a priority. Nor is it a fair statement. It is only a small part of what we do here to try and make a difference. Do you realize that in Iraq a town such as Nasirlyah where millions of people live there is no public sewer system, no public drinking water system, I guess that wouldn't concern you either. What are my concerns Mr. John, I am concerned that the a great number of the American people live an entire life with no concern for the poor people of the world. Building desk for the schools, well that was a task I ask to do because I felt like I could make a difference. If by showing the children we care it just might make a difference. Maybe I am wrong, I was certainly wrong to thing asking for advise here was simple. donny
Donny
Here's a non-US view. I'm from New Zealand. We've had troops in Iraq, rebuilding schools and water systems in Basra. The corps commander is a past colleague and friend of mine. They did well, and all came home safe.
You do what you think is right. But please buy your saw. Forget the megapolitics and the archair philosophers. The good work you can do, face to face, is where the future lies. Go well and good luck.
Malcolmwww.macpherson.co.nz
New Zealand | New Thinking0.06% of the world's people are Kiwis
Donny,
The response you've received is ridiculous, and frankly, I don't understand where it's coming from. I've seen very few rude posters on this forum, and I don't know what about your post seemed to attract the ire of a few jerks.
First, thank you and all of your fellow soldiers for what you are doing. I think you're work (all of it) is admirable and I'm embarrassed that someone would take the opportunity on this forum to somehow belittle your work - whether it is fighting insurgents, saving lives, or building desks.
Second, I think the work you are doing to build desks is some of the most important work you can be involved in. One never knows the positive impact these kinds of projects can have on a new generation of youth that will be expected to formulate the opinions and lead this new nation. A new desk in a school may speak volumes to a young student that later comes to a crossroads where he is expected to choose to support one movement or another.
Third, having worked several years on development projects in various third world countries, my advice is to get the absolute best and most dependable saw you can find. There is virtually no chance of finding replacement parts on any model or brand you get that isn't locally made (and I'm assuming there isn't a booming woodworking machinery industry in Iraq right now). So screw the costs (as much as you can) and get the best thing there is. Something that can take a tractor (or tank) running over it and still cut true! That will allow you to 1) not worry about the thing breaking down before you are done; 2) makes your work more efficient because you're working with a more powerful and effective tool; and 3) possibly leave it behind for the locals to use years after you are gone without having to worry about it breaking down and replacing parts.
Just curious though - how are you going to get the saw to Iraq? Will the military fly it in for you as part of a courier service, will you have to DHL or FedEx it? A $5000 saw is going to come in a REALLY BIG box! Have fun with it and good luck on your project. I can personally testify that the smiles of the poor children will help you forget a lot of heartache, frustration, and stress. I've never been involved in a situation like yours, but I was involved with a desk building project in Guatemala. We had absolutely no power tools - all hand planed, hand sanded, hand cut. It was exhausting and frustrating - but the results of the children celebrating with their teachers made every moment worthwhile!
(And I totally agree with your comment about many Americans not being aware/caring about the poverty that exists in the world - if half of my nieghbors could have accompanied me on my excursions throughout Central America I would live in a totally different neighborhood - but that's for another forum I'm sure).
<<<".... I don't know what about your post seemed to attract the ire of a few jerks.">>>Are you referring to John Sprung's post (12)? Who are the other "jerks?"********************************************************
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
> Are you referring to John Sprung's post (12)? Who are the other "jerks?"
Whoa. Read (12) again. Do you interpret it as being against the U.S. presence in Iraq? That's absolutely not what I intended. My concern is that the news media are in a rut, just running with the daily explosion, and ignoring the rising tide of improvement. Donny is in a position to tell us what's happening, without the filter of the media mindset.
-- J.S.
John,That's exactly how I interpreted your remarks, and it was a mystery to me why this guy "Jay" would come up with the following:<<<"The response you've received is ridiculous, and frankly, I don't understand where it's coming from. I've seen very few rude posters on this forum, and I don't know what about your post seemed to attract the ire of a few jerks.">>>So, I posed the question to see what he had to say -- but he never responded. I think the media mindset (from local TV all the way up to coverage of Iraq) is that "if it bleeds it leads." Aside from being ridiculous and unfortunate, I think that approach woefully distorts the flow of news. I agree with you that "donny" could make a real contribution to our little Knots community. He's there, he's obviously smart and insightful -- and I think many here would value whatever personal observations he cares to make on what he is seeing on a day-to-day basis.So donny, if you're still reading this thread, and if you're so inclined and have the time, I hope you will take this as an invitation to share some of what you are experiencing. No doubt there are some around here who would use your posts as a takeoff point to rail against the Bush policy. But that is not what this is about, and there are many of us who will try to head them off at the pass. Hoping to hear more from you, donny........................................********************************************************
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
Edited 5/20/2005 6:52 pm ET by nikkiwood
Sorry I seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot with some of you guys. This was my first post and vist to this site. I will try and give you guys some views of this place and what is happening. I attached my web link but apparently no one saw that part. It is of some of the things I have done and visited while here,I sure hope someone doesn't come back with a vacation comment. One being the palace in Baghdad that is a very different place. If you have problem just type in the link below and it will take you to the site. Mr John sorry if I have taken your comments wrong. donny
http://spaces.msn.com/members/landofiraq/
I'm a 2 time "Nam vet and two sons on Iraq 1.
So keep ypur head down and your powder dry
WE appreciate you.
DO your best. you got quite a vision and don't let none of them bast**ds get you down.
If there is some other help you need give a holler.There are four boxes to be used in defence of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order - Ed Howdershelt
No doubt there are some around here who would use your posts as a takeoff point to rail against the Bush policy. But that is not what this is about, and there are many of us who will try to head them off at the pass.If it comes up again, I WILL rail against Bush and his policy but this is not the place. The people over there doing what they are called for are heroic and we need to support them and most of us do. George WMD Bush on the other hand should get left out of these forums until he becomes a woodworker and posts on his own. Aloha, Mike
There's plenty of space in the Cafe for vetting opinions on the Iraq war. I am anxious to read what donny has to say, and I don't want him to think he'll have to take on a bunch of Bush/Rumsfeld critics if he tells us something about what is going on in his part of that world.********************************************************
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
23704.26 in reply to 23704.25 There's plenty of space in the Cafe for vetting opinions on the Iraq war.I am anxious to read what donny has to say, and I don't want him to think he'll have to take on a bunch of Bush/Rumsfeld critics if he tells us something about what is going on in his part of that world.I agree, so leave them out of here is what I had to say. Donny was good and his site is cool. I appreciate what he is doing inspite of the aforementioned president. Aloha, Mike
I appreciate your kind words, and encouragement. I could have misunderstood what was happen here so I will say I am sorry if I came off the wrong way. But let us put all that behind us now. Glad you enjoyed my site. Giving insite about this world, well the pictures tell a great deal. The people are like most third world countries I have visited. There are usually two groups of people the rich and the poor. This is the most difficult place. Maybe I could do best by answering any questions any of you might have, and maybe this isn't the right place for that either. I will enclude my address at the end. The only thing that must be understood is that I will not answer questions that deal with security. donny [email protected]
nikkiwood
Your comments are very well written, and I hope Donny finds the time to ignore the small percentage of ignorant posters around here, and inform us as to what is 'really' going on over there.
Thanks, as I feel strongly that you are also speaking for me.
Jeff
Thanks. I'm going to fire off an email to Donny at the address he noted, and suggest some of the things I would like to see him comment on.I would rather see his commentaries as a post here, since I think there are many others at Knots who would be as interested as I am in what he has to say. If you (and any others) share this feeling, and would like to encourage him to contribute, you might want to also send him an email (he gave the address a few posts back).********************************************************
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
I will be glad to start it out here. I came here in December of 04 my job with my unit is umo unit movement officer, I cordinate the equipment and supplies getting things from home to present location and back. It all started in September preparing the equipment for shipment to Fort Bragg. We left home for Brag the first day of November. We went thru a lot of training there but finished more quickly than most. Then to Kuwaitt for processing and more training, this took three weeks. I landed here in Iraq the firt part of January, on a small airforce base called Tallil. A lot of people have the mind set that if your a soldier your walking down the streets of Baghdad shooting at the bad guys. There are countless insurgents and bad places to be here. Our job here is to cordinate the units that fall under our command to rebuild Iraq. They have constructed countless bridges, and building sense the first invasion in nintey one. We have people from all over the states here and that is quiet an experience in itself. A lot of the people on Tallil are reserve and national guard, I won't give numbers. We have lots of tents here but I was luckey enought to have gotten a trailer to live in, pictures on the web site I posted earlier. Uppon arrival I helped build a few computer desk, and little things to make it more like home. Then on to some of the existing building on base to do small jobs, tables, sun screens, and many others. Upon visiting one of the local school seeing the desk and the poor construction, I suggested we build new desk for them. That is where the concept of the wood shop all started. I have to go to work now but gladly tell you the entire story later. donny
Thanks for your reply. As it happens, I was half way through composing an email to you when I got a notification for your post. Here are a couple of questions from the top of my head:1) Are you a reservist or full-time Army? I am guessing the former, since you mentioned having two table saws at home. 2) How did you come by your interest in woodworking? How much of that (wwing) is part of your job in Iraq?3) Given all the troubles with the insurgency, I would guess your contact with Iraqi's is limited. But from your own personal experience, what can you tell us that would describe their mood toward the American presence?More later.********************************************************
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
Nikkiwood,
Sorry it took me so long to respond to your question, I lost track of this thread and just read the several messages that have been posted lately. My comment regarding jerks on the forum was directed to the poster that made the comment about his taxes paying for a $5000 TS going to Iraq to help with Donny's work. Given the question posed and the theme of the knots forum, I didn't think the remark or implication was necessary. Furthermore, I think what Donny is doing is outstanding work, some of the more interesting things occuring in Iraq that we don't get to hear about, and the first few posts got off to a really bad start - even Donny felt the need to get defensive when people started talking about their tax money and the saw he was buying.
I didn't see anything wrong with John's comment, in fact I would generally agree with what we wrote. I was disappointed that when Donny asked for help on the forum, he was hit with a few good suggestions and at least one comment that I didn't think had a place on the knots discussion board. Given my experience on the forum, I was surprised that somebody would have said something so negative when Donny was asking a legitimate question.
Sorry if it offended, but I found the implication that Donny shouldn't be spending $5000 on a TS inappropriate and irrelevant for this forum.
Hi Jay,
As to "My comment regarding jerks on the forum was directed to the poster that made the comment about his taxes paying for a $5000 TS going to Iraq to help with Donny's work"?
That'd be me.
And, yes, given the history of governmental purchasing, I thought, and think that :
1) When the request is simply for 'the best made;' and
2) circumstances make it seem likely that the poster is indeed buying the saw for use in Iraq with what is, in effect, our money; but
3) he doesn't come right out and say 'Hi, I'm Corporal So-and-so' ... or employed by this or that NGO, or anything ..., or tell us who will be using the machine ...
Then, I don't get it - How is my simply saying it - the circumstances look like it's US tax funds buying it - some kind of outrage, much less occasion to begin name-calling? Donny wasn't shy about saying so, once it came up. I don't understand the defensiveness - it's not like it's a secret that we buy equipment for use in Iraq! And, no matter what anyone's position is on the original Iraq decision, there is no one who does not support the (often painfully young) men and women who are literally sacrificing everything in our name and at our request.
Indeed, knowing that fact might make people think differently about it, as does knowing that it's to be used by locals, rather than by US military-trained personnel.
I certainly did not say, nor imply, that I disapproved of the nature of the expenditure, and in fact I think that this sort of face-to-face activity provides some of our best hopes.
The level of rancor in the current climate, though, apparently makes it impossible for any comment to be neutral. So, Donny, let there be no mistake - I am truly glad you're here, I want to hear impressions 'on the ground,' I fervently wish that more people spending our tax dollars would have the very kind of sense you've shown in looking here for help! You sound like just the sort of guy I want representing us (and you're a woodworker, so you would get that presumption anyway!).
In fact, now that I think about it, (and Donny, knowing you've already made another choice) I might have considered two things -
My experience with third-world countries (in the Caribbean) is that the bottlenecks do usually occur because of equipment breakdowns - and are prolonged when service is not at hand, and/or parts require weeks to arrive. In extreme circumstances, the best machine is the one that's running. (And Donny, even the images we see here leave no doubt about the extremity of your circumstances.) So, one priority is to keep those stoppages from happening.
First, I wonder whether there is a distribution chain for any of the European brands in place in Iraq - France, Germany and Italy, among others, did much more business with Iraq during Saddam than we did. And, someone must have been servicing the machines that were cutting the moldings for all those palaces! So, if there were an existing MiniMax (or Laguna, or whatever) distribution network as far as Baghdad, that might tilt my decision that way, simply for ease of parts and service.
Or, for around the same $, perhaps he could have considered two Unisaws or P-66s or some other reliable workhorses, and know that he could always keep one of them running if the other was awaiting service or parts. And other times, he could double production!
However, as Donny needed the 14-inch blade, I'm sure the General is a fine beast, and it certainly is reputed to be the sort of tough iron you'd want, without a lot of digital frills to get broken.
As to the original message, maybe my use of the phrase 'suspect that' made folks think I meant it as something nefarious. But, one can 'suspect' that ... I dunno ... that Suzy's got a new boy friend, or that George is getting a puppy for his birthday - in any event, it wasn't intended to imply wrongdoing on anyone's part, and it cannot be read to imply wrongdoing on Donny's part.
But, whether or not I 'get it,' when a dozen people spring to the defense of the services, the policies and Donny, it's my message that must be at fault, and I do apologize for any offense - to Donny or to anyone else.
Clay
4 Unisaws cheap.
This is not the thread that I was looking for, but maybe someone here is looking for a good deal on a TS. this looks like a good deal to me especially if you are near MA. http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/402361.html
Those are amazing deals. You might post that under its own thread. Interestingly did you see that they are buying Saw Stops?
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
Donny..
Just a OLD Army guy here.. Forgive me.. BUT..
I saw no hate in the post from John. I think it was just a simple question/comment because of what we see on the news every day..
I do not think it ment anything but then again..
Hell, I was called a jerk cus I was in NAM!.. Dang as if I wanted to be there!..
Keep safe and enjoy your saw!
Hello donny,
Having read all the posts following your initial post I have this to say to you : make the best of this chance to do quality woodworking in that country- you are lucky.One of the reasons I abandoned Zimbabwe was that ithad become impossible to do my vocation there.
So enjoy the new saw, and watch your fingers - and your back.
Keep us posted on your progress-give us an insight into the real Iraq, rather than what the media feeds us?
MARTIN Slider....this is what I would own if I hit the lottery.
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