Best tools for hand-cut DOVETAILS
webdesigner
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Please tell me, in your opinion, the best chisels and hand saws to buy for doing hand-cut dovetail work. I know many people have both Japanese and Lie-Nielsen type saws and chisels. For $35 you can’t go wrong with the Japanese saws, but choosing the right chisel set is a tougher choice. Two Cherries or Blue Steel? Is Pfeil the best value? Also, there are chisels and there are dovetail chisels, I want to do strictly dovetail work.
I’ve been a woodworker for many years, but new to hand-cut dovetail work. My budget is about $150 to $200. Goal: tools that are accurate and will grow with me for many years.
Can you recommend a good video and book too?
Value your opinion, thanks!
Gary
Replies
Japanese dovetail chisel is my choice for hand cut dovetails.The bevels along the sides rise steeply almost from the edges to a point in the centre, giving the chisel an almost triangular cross section, ideal profile for dovetail work.
I suggest you start with the sizes of chisel for the sizes of the dovetails you cut.
Good luck.
Woodsplicer
For sawing, I use the LN dovetail saw -- my wife prefers the japanese saw. Purely a personal preference thing, but the LN saw is a joy to behold and a dream to use. I retired my Pax after using the LN the first time.
As for chisels, I have a lot of great chisels but I never use 'em for DTs. I find short (2-3" long) butt chisels are faster and way easier to control when chopping DTs than the longer cabinet chisels. I just use cheap Woodcraft chisels and make sure to keep them sharp. I also use a round metal carver's mallet instead of a wooden one -- less tireing. Almost all my DTs are in hardwood, and most are in maple or, even worse, red oak. I usually trim to within 1/16 of the line with a coping saw and then pare away the waste in two shots. Again, a personal preference thing, but I find this much quicker than cutting to the line with chisel alone as some do. (E.g., check out Frank Klaus' videos.)
I use what I learned from Tage Frid. I prefer a bow saw with a wide 12 tpi rip blade, I make my own and they are easy to use, easy to sharpen and I file my own blades. Also good blades are easy to find and I keep plenty sharp and ready to go. I like butt chisels, flea market specials, look for old Buck Brothers, Greenlee, Stanley, etc. Polish and sharpen and away you go, no sense spending big $$$$ on new ones.
Frank Klaus’ video, (now on DVD), is GREAT. The best lesson on hand cut DT. I wish I had it when I was learning to cut them.
"I use what I learned from Tage Frid."
"Frank Klaus’ video, (now on <!---->DVD<!---->), is GREAT. The best lesson on hand cut DT. I wish I had it when I was learning to cut them."
I thought you learned to cut dovetails from Frid. What about that experience left you wanting and wishing for the Klausz video?
Edited 9/26/2005 12:48 pm ET by ProWoodworker
I still use the bow saw, (easy to make and maintain), as I learned from Frid, and his practicality is something I look too every time I start a project. I incorporated the, “non-measuring”, method of spacing and learning to saw straight down without a line that Klaus uses.
I cut the tails on the tablesaw, at about 7°. I use some Dewalt 7 1/4" blades designed to cut aluminum that I had reground. I can cut tail all day to fit pins .060-.070" wide. My arms never get tired, and all I hve to chisel out is a little "v", less than 1/8" wide.
I cut the pins with a router jig I made that can adjust for what ever angle I am calling 7° today, and I make most of my tails 3/8-7/16", or whatever my eyeball puts me at.
I can do a drawer in 15-20 min. and every pin, and every dovetail, looks as handcut as all getout. No 1/4" wide pins, or 3/4" tails. I can very the angle of every pin if I want to show off.
I know how to saw by hand. It makes me tired. I can get the aesthetics, and structural integrity equal to anything made by the devoutest Shaker, and I don't have to worry about what brand of saw is coolest du jour.
Nice, how do you line-up the cut on your table saw?!
Do you have a jig? How do you get the tails and pins to line-up?
Very curious now.Thanks, Gary
Fine woodworking has shown several ways of doing that. Lining stuff up is just eyeball to my layout lines.
I will try to attach a picture here, but I don't always succeed at that.
I think I have got a few pictures in there of some boxes I made from leftover oak flooring. I put them in my rollaway, to hold tools and hardware, and have never had one come apart even bouncing around on concrete floors and being drug across town in a pick up.
I usually make them 1/8" or so oversize all around, and trim to size after glue up, so the look nicer when finished than they do rough in these pictures.
I have not found my 18 ounce bow saw to be that tiring. I like to keep proficient at hand tool skills, just a personal preference. Less clean up too.
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I still use a Keller jig for production runs of blanket and sailors chests, (at least five at a time), the people who buy those do not really care if the joints are hand cut.
I use a pattern I made off of one of those Stotts Masters, sometime. I like using hand tools too. I use one of those Veritas guides on occasion, when I want something real small, like in 1/4" to 5/16" thick sides.
Most people will never know if they are hand cut or not, or even understand that some of us think it is a big deal.
Sometimes I will make the center pin 7° on each side, and the next ones moving outboard 7° on the inside and 8° on the outside, and continue on to get a sort of rising sun effect. Even my 75 yr. old mother can recognize that you can't do those with a router, and that they took a little bit of extra talent or effort. My kid knows, that I can whip them out on the table saw, but he is happy knowing he is one up on Grandma.
You can cut perfect dovetails with any of those chisels. I use a 2 cherries 3mm. You probably won't really be abusing the chisel much. I seem to have gotten into the habit of using my chin to push the chisel, and that works just fine.
The saw is more important than the chisel. I cut mine on the table saw so my little arm don't get so tired.
I like the book "The Complete Dovetail" by Ian Kirby. In the book, it looks like Mr. Kirby is using Marples Blue Chip chisels and a standard dovetail saw(not Japanese).
Edited 9/26/2005 8:18 pm ET by robert1
I like the book "The Complete Dovetail" by Ian Kirby. In the book, it looks like Mr. Kirby is using Marples Blue Chip chisels and a standard dovetail saw(not Japanese).
You're exactly right and his dovetailing leaves nothing to be desired.
I'm on my 3rd Japanese chisel, and is absolutely hooked. If you take good care of them, paring is a lot more fun. I'm not all that happy with my Ashley Iles.
Thanks for responding so late at night 5418!Which brand/model of Japanese chisel did you buy?
Blue Steel? How long does the edge stay sharp, I don't like sharpening tools too much.
With four kids, I just don't have the time.Seems like the Lie Nielsen dovetail saw is THE way to go, what do you use?Which online store has the best price on the LN Independence saws?Gary
If you spend a lot of time paring a dovetail joint then your sawing technique is lacking. All you need from a chisel during dovetailing is the ability to chop. The sockets are undercut and do not have to be glass smooth. End grain cannot be glued.
webdesigner,
Learning to cut dovetails well is important because it is a transfereable skill to almost all the other hand tool functions in woodworking. It's a matter of correct process(Ian Kirby is great), body position and, lastly, tools. The actual execution is a function of muscle memory developed from practice and good feedack..the LN saw gives great feedback...it demands you hold it and move it correctly.
I bought the japanese chisels that Woodcraft use to stock and they're terriffic....long time between sharpening. However, if your making drawers primarily then your stock is mainly 3/8"-1/2" thick and should not require hard chopping from each side...so almost any chisel will do and not require frequent sharpening if handled considerately. One issue is getting the corners clean and the angle sharp...if the chisel it too thick it's a problem...I use a thin paring chisel for the corners.
I'm not sure if I agree with the other poster that the best tools are the cheapest ones. (Well, at least that wouldn't be so much fun for us tool junkies.) I think if you have reasonably good, well taken care of tools, working becomes more pleasurable. My chisels are from difference sources (Masashige 1/4", Matsumura 1/8", and Chutaro Imai 5/8"), and I think they're pretty comparable. What I like about them is that the edge is sharper and stays sharp for a much longer time. I have a small shop and have to sharpen in the kitchen, so that saves me a lot of walks :) I didn't hollow-grind my blades to begin with, so the move to Japanese chisels didn't require any adjustment for me. You do have to learn to sharpen them well (as in all tools) though, otherwise the money you spend is worthless. Once you're comfortable, it only takes a minute or two to sharpen a tool.I use a disposable-blade dozuki (Z-saw) for my joinery cuts. I like the fact that they start easier.
I really like the american pattern bevel edge chisels at http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com for their shorter length.
I just recently purchased a dozuki saw to cut tennons and dovetails. I would use nothing else. The kerf is exceptionally thin and the saw glides thru the wood. The more I use the saw the more uses I find for it.
If you ever get the chance, give Toshio Odate's dovetailing dozuki a shot. It's a "modified" rip tooth, crosscuts ok, rips pretty well, but is outstanding at ripping on the diagonal, which is what dovetailing is, really. Love that saw...CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Toshio Odate's dovetailing dozuki ..
Can't say for sure but in Nov. Popular Woodworking it looks like Lonnie Bird is using one. Well, looks Oriental!Just love all my pull saws..
Hi Webdisigner:
The best chisel and handsaw to buy for dovetails is the cheapest one you can find. The quality of the dovetail has nothing to to with the tool and everything to do with the operator.
Get some scrap wood, old pallets are a great source, and start cutting dovetails. If you don't know how, take a class. If you do know how, you should get good results by the 50'th practice cut. If you don't , take a class.
Tools don't make a good dovetail......practice and skill do.
Think about it.
Dennis
That was well said, until you got to "think about it."
As I recall, most of us were so passionate about joining the ranks of higher level craftsman when we learned hand cut dovetails that most of us were ready to spend some cash to be SURE we did well.
In your defense though, one guy I knew who did it well and VERY quickly told me it was all about ...."developing the muscles in your hand."
I do think a good yellow plastic mallet is worth looking for though!
Hi Elmer:
My earlier post was a bit strong. It was a bit of a rant against the tool dilettantes. When you read some of the posts, it sounds like you can't build a piece of furniture with out Lie-Nielson planes and Japanese chisels.
I love fine tools -- they are a joy to use, but they will not make better dovetails.
Dennis
I've just started cutting dovetails too. I have Japanese saws which I really enjoy using for cross cuts but not for the end grain. I nearly bought the PAX saw from Lee Valley but opted instead for the Adria Dovetail saw. It is very very similar to the Lie-Nielsen (perhaps slightly taller and shorter). It was a toss-up between the two but I decided to go with the lower production Adria. You can check them out at http://www.Adriatools.com . For chisels I have a set of Marples Blue but I also bought a 1/8" Veritas chisel for getting into tight corners. I'm thinking about Japanese chisels but I've spent enough on hand tools lately.
Thanks for the reply Glen.Hold off on the Japanese chisels, heard mixed messages about them. They hold an edge, beautiful work of art, but they chip easily if one is not super careful. Even then, some hard woods can chip them.So, I bought a set of Two Cherries, very nice. But, now I have to learn how to sharpen them! They don't come ready-to-go...yeah, me the rookie. Wishful thinking.
Then, I want to buy the Lie Nielsen Independence saw, hopefully at the Woodworking Show in San Mateo this month. 10% which will cost me around $113 plus tax, not bad if it's going to last 50 years. Reminds me, I have to get my 7 year old daughter interested in woodworking now. Glad to heard, more and more women are getting into it.If anyone can tell me how to sharpen my Two Cherries, please let me know.
Don't have a clue which stones or honing guides to buy!!!Cheers,
Gary
Get a fine DMT Diamond stone, which will be a lot couser than you think. A 12x12 ceramic tile and some wet and dry sandpaper going from 220 or so to 1500 or so. Then finish with aluminum polish, machined buffing compound, on a paint stirring stick, and you will be able to shave with those chisels.
when your at the woodworking show, drop by the lie neilson booth. You'll be glad you did. They have norton water stones there. I bought mine about 4 years ago now and absoulty love them. If Rob Cosom is there in the booth take his dovetaing course. It was fantastic.
I've been doing hand dovetailing work for several decades now, both as an amature and as a professional. Until my trip to the LN factory in Maine last week, I was a strong advocate of Japanese saws, however a few minutes at the bench with their dovetail saw convinced me to change. While both saws cut a very narrow kerf, the LN leaves a significantely smoother surface and is easier to guide due to the pistol grip. While I agree that cutting dovetails is largely a matter of technique and practice, the quality of a tool has a great effect on the learning curve.
I use Sorby chisels for dovetails, but I think most chisels with beveled sides are adequate. I don't really understand the tremondous concern with buying chisels that rarely need to be sharpened. When it dulls, just sharpen it! It only taked a few minutes. I do however prefer to use a chisel with a long shank as it is easier to judge the angle of your cut.
For half or full blind dovetails, I've reshaped several old Millers Falls chisels on a skew (left and right ) to clean up the angle around the pins.
Carl
Thanks Carl,I agree with you, the LN Independence is a beautiful saw, hope to pick up one at the Woodworking Show! Do they have guided tours at their factory?Can you tell me how to hand-cut half blind dovetails? Most books and articles talk about through dovetails, I guess the half blind joints are trickier.Appreciate your help!
Gary
hi carl
I agree with you that the LN tools help you with the learning curve and give you confidence to cut dovetails by hand without getting frustrated. I have had my LN dovetail saw for about 4 years and it has brought my skill level every high . I am a professional woodworker and my work is known for the quailty of fine hand cut dovetail.
James
Thanks Tigerstripe!I agree, I'm trying to practice with a real cheap back saw and it's a pain.I would love to see your work, sounds beautiful. Do you have a web site?
If not, I can build one for you.To be a professional woodworker would be a dream come true for me, can't buy Trump Tower, but I'm sure the love and passion is priceless. I work on the computer all day long, designing toy packages and web sites. Fun and stressful, not to mention it's bad on the eyes.How do you handcut half blind dovetails, most books tell you how to do through dovetails only. Is it trickier...or just a lot of practice?Thanks again, Gary
Hi Gary,
yes I have a web site it is http://www.pacificrimdesigns.ca
James
Gary
Sorry for the delay in my reply. Half blind dovetails aren't particularly hard to make, but to describle it in text would be very confusing. Issue #100 (May/June 1993)of FFW has an excelent article by Franz Klausz on the subject. Making full blind dovetails (those completely hidden within a miter joint) can be found in a book titled "Joinery", by Gary Rogowski. I use full blind dovetails when making bracket feet for casework. Althought no one knows their there, they provide incredable mechanical strength, and will last centuries.
There has been much debate in this forum about the need or desirability of buying cheap vs. high end tools. While it is true that an experienced craftsman can make excellent furniture with crude or even poor quality tools, a novice cannot. It is the experience that teaches one how to compensate for a tools limitations. When a novice makes a poor showing, he needs to know that it was his fault, not that of the tool. Without experience, one can't tell the difference.
Best Regards,
Carl
If you're new to cutting dovetails, get the cheapest saw you can get and the cheapest set of chisels. Make the investment after you've mastered the skills.
Check out the article by Mike Pekovich in FW recently about honing your skills and start practicing cutting straight lines. Get into the habit of warming up, cut at least 100 to 200 lines a day and soon you'll be able to pick up just about anything to do the job.
Reward yourself later, plus then you'll make a more informed decision based on the feel of the saw and chisel.
Tap, I could not disagree more with you and Dennis if I tried.What you are advocating will result in a severe handicap from the outset, and will not instill a respect for the tools which help to do a decent job.How on earth is one to master a skill with Sh@ty tools? It's like using a rifle with a bent barrel....
I still have the tools which I started acquiring when I was a mere youth-in those days it was fortunate that where I lived there were shops that stocked quality tradesman tools as I was only interested in the best that I (or my father) could buy.
One simply will not get good results with crappy saws with pressed teeth, or mean chisels that are badly ground and will not hold an edge, to mention a few examples.
Buy the very best you can afford-and then some- that alone , for most people,is a strong incentive to learn to handle them properly.
If a person has spent his life savings on some tools, and is now terrified of buggaring them up because he is inexperienced, the next best investment he can make is an attendance at an instruction class- which are plentiful in A merica.
Any body passionate about decent wood working will surely acquire quality tools.Philip Marcou
Edited 10/7/2005 1:39 am ET by philip
Phillip,While I too share the joy of using great tools I completely disagree that a novice should get them right away. To me it's just one more step toward woodworking consumerism versus woodworking skill.All I am saying is before you get all crazy to purchase tools, how about learning a little bit more about the craft--he is not going to be "ruined" if he has real interest.The person who focuses more on the tool as the fault of their mistakes needs to make a lot more mistakes.Tim
I think you are correct. I have read numerous posts over the years from individuals who have invested greatly in first rate handtools, but have second rate woodworking skills and the results were... you guessed it, second rate. It's like giving a Stradivarius violin to a neophyte musician and expecting them now to render a virtuoso performance of Danse Macabre. Rather unlikely, wouldn't you agree?
As a violinist/fiddler for, oh, 34 years, I can tell you that putting a really cheap fiddle into a neophyte's hands is no way to help them improve their skills.
If I pick up even a really cheap fiddle, I can usually coax something listenable out of it, but that's with decades of experience. If it squeaks or growls, I know it's not just me -- and I know how to compensate. But a novice won't, and that's an unfair burden to add right at the start of the learning curve.
I'm a neophyte woodworker, just getting my shop together. I'm being careful to buy only well-regarded and capable tools. Still, I know that my initial efforts will be, well, amateurish. But I'll know it's not my tools, it's me. Still, I won't be discouraged, because I'll know that if I just keep learning and practicing, competence, artistry and possibly even mastery are possible with what I'm learning to use.
I know there's a sort of "old school" feeling that one shouldn't have tools beyond one's skill, but can't come up with a good reason for it. I generally attribute it to the resentment one feels when someone else gets a break we didn't get.
Still, other than cautioning against unrealistic expectations (owning the same tools Maloof has won't make your chairs come out like his), I can't come up with a defensible rationale for discouraging a learner from acquiring decent tools.
Oh Mr. Vulcan, that was an excellent explanation!!! Two cheers!!
That's exactly how I feel, now I can explain it to my wife.
I usually try to buy my tools on sale, and to sell off my old tools.Washington must be beautiful!Enjoy your woodworking, keep in touch!Thanks, Gary
"During the first year of training, apprentices were not permitted to work with tools. This came only during the second year, when apprentices were usually assigned the making of rough storm doors.....(Unlike shoji, these were not continually on display, and so were suitable for a beginner's project.) During this year, apprentices were given tools of a quality sufficient only to accomplish this work, but because the first year's deprivation had built up enormous hunger for tools, even these tools seemed very precious." p. 82-Toshio Odate in Japanese Woodworking Tools, Their Tradition, Spirit and Use
I suppose it all comes down to matching the quality of the tool and the skill of the woodworker, to the task for which the tool will be used. If one can afford a Holtey plane and an Ulmia bench, then I will tip my hat in the name of economic success. I believe, however, if more individuals focused on the qualities of skill and value, rather than the fineness of the tool, then the product of their work would be of much higher quality. But that is only my opinion.
robert1,
I think your grossly underestimating the value of being an apprentice..with a tremendously valuable feedback loop watching every move you make...lol.
Now let me ask you, If you were serious about shooting good pool...and I told you to just grab an old broom and have at it...or suppose it was playing darts...forget those 22 gram hammerheads, all you need is some old nails...lol.
<<Now let me ask you, If you were serious about shooting good pool...and I told you to just grab an old broom and have at it...or suppose it was playing darts...forget those 22 gram hammerheads, all you need is some old nails...lol.>>
BG- A broom, is a broom, is a broom and a nail, is a nail, is a nail, etc..... As a counter example, I never suggested using a lawnmower blade as a chisel. However, a set of Narex chisels can be had for $20 and a set of Stanley bench planes 4,5, and a 7 can easily be bought on ebay for <$150. An adequate workbench can be made with dimensioned lumber for <$100 and so forth. I suppose some woodworkers are really tool collectors who piddle with their tools as a diversion, while others are more interested in mastering the craft of woodworking using decent tools as a means to a desired end. Both are worthy endeavors, but since the original topic focused on the tools needed to master a skill, I would focus first on the mechanics of the skill, rather than pondering the best dovetail saw or chisel(a somewhat subjective choice in any case). But that is only my opinion.
I know I stoked some fire about the comment I made about buying the cheapest tools he could get. I wanted to clarify what I said.
I know well how a good tool can take you over that plateau you reach as your trying to build your skill. But that's exactly my point. You have to start somewhere and too often people go for the good tool before they've even spent time making sawdust. I'm not advocating making fine furniture with rusty saws. I am advocating that he focus less on how poorly the tool is working and more on how tight to the line he can cut. In other words, get into the damn shop and start making things, no matter what you have. Yes, there'll be a point at which he's ready for a better tool, but IMO, it's not till a good bit of sawdust (and possibly crappy furniture) is made.
Brian Boggs started off with a screw driver for a mortise chisel because that's all he could afford. Now certainly Brian doesn't use that screwdriver anymore, but he didn't let it hinder him in the beginning from making progress towards being one the best chair makers in the country.
I think even the passionate tool junkie can agree that skill should be his/her first objective. After that it's time to focus on how a better tool will help them achieve greater precision and skill.
All in favor say, "Nay" (that's for the horse that I've effectively beat to death),
Tim
Edited 10/11/2005 10:26 pm ET by Taproot
And so, to sum up: we have arrived at the conclusion that at the outset a keen woodworm should aim at getting tools of a reasonable standard-this does not mean L/N or Veritas or other more exotic stuff, but it does mean tools that can work for and not against the ,er, person. Inferior tools are not helpful at all-in fact they can put one right off.
I am glad we have done that:-)Philip Marcou
Wow! That means, since I am a good woodworker, I should be able to play the fiddle, right? (Just kidding -- I only wish it were so!)
Mike Hennessy
Tap, I hear what you say, but the way to learn is by doing-most preferably with tools of reasonable quality.
I don't know what happens these days , but I do recall young apprentices having to present their hand tools to the Factory Manager for inspection. One lad had a virginal oilstone, of the type that looks good until you use it and find that there is then lots of sand gathered about-this was summarily taken by the finger tips and dropped onto the concrete floor. The reasoning was that it was necessary to start off with a suitable attitude.
I am not harping on about this any more, except to say that I am pleased that I always got the best I could -it just helps.Philip Marcou
was summarily taken by the finger tips and dropped onto the concrete floor. Sounds like my old drill Sargent...
Strange how these sort of visions persist in the memory...
Have had my fair share of military style (British) discipline, which has stood me well in life.
Decent wood working requires discipline in various fields-the area of safe working practices being one.
That old buggar used to threaten a fate worse than execution if he suspected a fellow was "stuffing about" with his machinery. There was a high standard of work there.To me , damaging the self is akin to having an Accidental Discharge (AD), which seems common place in the A merican Army ;)(;Philip Marcou
I agree with you Philip.
IMHO, the saw and layout tools are most important, decent (well sharpened) chisels will do fine- esp for through 'tails. You can get a pretty good saw for ~50-100 USD, and a very good one for 125.
Dovetails require much practice to perfect, but handicapping yourself wih cheap tools is likely to lead to frustration and failure. Doing a repetitive task like DTs with fine tools is just a pleasure, which makes practice more enjoyable and leads to... more practice (and better results).
Lastly, DTs are one bit of joinery where the joint is fully on display... it really needs to look perfect to not look awful: I can bury my slightly too short tenons, plane-fit my 89 degree miters, but DTs need to be spot on. Using crappy tools is a false economy and any savings will quickly be used to replace wasted stock.
Just my 2p,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Hi, Gary,
You have received a lot of feedback on your request for tools for cutting dovetails, most of it aimed at the more expensive end of the market, and probably rightly so. I do have a couple of pointers which I think you might bear in mind.
Angles. The 'industry standard' for dovetails in hardwood is 1 in 8. I have a little tool which I made at school (yeah, they really did have schools that long ago!) which gives me a correct angle every time, and cost me about tuppence. If you are interested, let me know and I will photograph it and send it to you.
Saw kerf. I will probably get slaughtered for this, but here goes............................
The kerf of the saw is always too wide. You will have difficulty, I believe, in getting a nice straight cut, at least while you are learning (I am still learning...), because the stell of the saw blade is a sloppy fit in the kerf you are cutting. When you buy your saw (and you should probably start with an old, cheap, dovetail saw that is good and sharp, in opinion), try it in a piece of scrap. I f you find that actually am talking sense, and your line wanders from the straight and narrow, lie the saw on each of it's sides, rubbing an oiled stone along the run of the teeth (probably better to go from rear to front) a couple of times on each side. Then try it again. If it needs more, give it more, but make sure the same is done on both sides.
I cut the tails, then use those to mark out where the pins need to be cut. This part is fraught. You will need to develop your own way, and I would imagine that there are as many different ways as there are Knots contributors. I use (currently) ammarking knife with bevels on both sides. I have used plane irons, a sharpened piece of hacksaw blade, countless contraptions, and even a pencil.
Good luck, mate. You will get better at it as you do more.
Ozzy
I have cut a lot of dovetails in my time, and they still don't always come out perfectly.
I use those Shark pull saws. They cut just fine. As long as your kerf is narrower than the small end of your pin, it is irrelevant what your kerf is.
Their is no reason that anyone can't cut dovetails and make them come out just fine, every time, after about 2-3 tries. It is not rocket science. Layout your line. Make your cut saving your line, and you will always be too tight, but that is the way to start, you can always loosen up a bit from there. You do need good tools, but there are plenty of good tools these days that are not priceless works of art in their own right, that will do everything you want done.
Whether it's saws or chisels , what counts the most is how well they have been sharpened. Material quality only affects how long they stay sharp. I'd advise a fine toothed back saw sharpened in a rip configuration.
Tom
I'd advise a fine toothed Japan saw!
Sternberg. aka kesac
I just ran across this posting, that apparently I made about 7 years ago. I found it by looking at some bing images and I thought, that looks similar to the way I do things on occasion.
re: Finding yourself again
Funny how that happens, eh? As they say, what you post on the Net stays on the Net. ;-)
Now How Big Are These Dovetails We Are Cutting ?
Wow ! Shades of the old days.
Nice long thread by thoughtful people.
What the hell, I wasn't around here then so I will add my two cents and keep it going. Who knows it may beat Mel's thread of many thousands of posts.
I like the LN saws with the straight handles. I tried the other stiles and the bow saw.
For chisels definitely the Japanese chisels for most but I made some left and right diagonal chisels and one spear point chisel for the tiniest dovetail work (see the blue handle ones), the spear is in between them.
Of coarse one has to ask . . .
WHAT size dOveTaILs ?
For the big three or four inch jobs I use the 14 inchLN back saws with corse teeth.
I like corse teeth even for the smaller dovetails. Filed right for the kind of wood O'course.
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