Hello all,
Just a bit of a survey of technique. Starting to build a few base kitchen cabinets and am curious as to the preferred method for cutting the notch for the toe kick in the cabinet sides (non bandsaw). Going for ease, precision and repeatability as my freehand cutting is both slow and at times variable.
Thanks,
Dave
Replies
Well, "ease, precision and repeatability" suggests "CNC router." ;-)
What tools do you have at your disposal? You can always rough cut to approximate size using a table saw, handheld circular saw, handsaw, whatever, then use a router with a template to clean up the cut.
-Steve
In many cases, you can do away with the notch problem by building a platform for the base cabinets to rest on. The base is 4" high, or whatever height you use for the toe kick, and it can usually be made from plywood scraps. A continuous face of 1/4" plywood matching the cabinet material can be applied after the base is installed.
Advantages: You get two more base cabinet sides from a sheet of plywood, and the light base is easier to shim for level than individual cabinets.
Thanks for the tip and I also like the more efficient use of a sheet of ply. I just built a bathroom vanity like that, an I liked the way it turned out. One issue that I am facing is trying to put a space for a dishwasher at the end of a run of cabinets. I was going to build a box that would enclose the dishwasher and the box would have solid top and back for support and also be supported by the board that forms the vertical portion of the toe kick. Any thought on how to accommodate the dishwasher in the framework of the separate base that you mentioned?
Whether the dishwasher is in the middle or end of a run of cabinets, I think you'll have to build a separate box, as you suggest. Just end the base at the last cabinet. For your dishwasher box, I don't think you'll need anything more than a plywood top to support the counter, and the finished end panel that completes the run of cabinets-plus-dishwasher.
Those two pieces can be anchored by cleats attached to the final cabinet in the run and to the wall behind the dishwasher. The dishwasher will be supported by its own feet and anchored by fasteners attached to the counter.
I have done several with laminated tops over them. All you need then is a top and bottom cleat attached to the end panel. For face frames, just add the frame with the same 1/4" reveal at the outside edge and another at the toe kick from the toe kick material. An 1 1/2" face frame easily hide the 3/4" cleat.
Experience has taught me to make an end panel like that a little on the tall side, with extra height being added at the toe kick. An out of level floor can make the end panel a liitle short sometime. Better to be able to field cut it off than to have to make another one because the one you made for the job is a 1/4" to short :(
For a stone top I would use the plywood sub top and cleats to attach the panel.
I've not done one for a frameless job, but I would think a couple of pocket screws could substitute for cleats.
Dave
I agree. It's much easier to build and level a separate base which the cabinets simply sit on.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I also agree. All professional cabinet workers I have ever seen make a seperate toe kick, and then level that.
I cross cut with a festool saw(reducing chip-out), then rip with the table saw, then finish the cut, and cleanup with a handsaw and chisel when needed. For paintgrade I'll finish the cuts with a jig saw. That's alot of tool changes for one cabinet. But its not bad when I build eight or ten kitchen cabinets. (16-20 sides)
This method works great if you have a table saw capable of using the fence on either side of the blade:
First, draw the outline of the kick on the plywood. Then set the fence at the desired distance (be careful that the kerf will be in the waste area!) With the outside side of the cabinet side UP,run the piece along the fence JUST to your mark, shut down the saw and wait for it to stop before you remove the work. Reset the fence for the other cut and repeat.
The long part of the arc the blade makes will be hidden on the inside face of the cabinet side,
I have made all my kitchen cabinets as Donald-C-Brown suggested. Put them on a base of you choosing.
Dave,
I made a jig. My DeWalt jig saw cuts 1 3/8 from each edge. The jig is made so that it is 1 3/8 over the size of my cutout. I glued stops on both edges I marked each edge "UP" and 'IN" so I set the jig on right. I have a 1 3/8 strip and I lightly mark where the lines join. I clamp the jig so it stays put and then cut. When the blade gets colse to the perp line I slow and watch carefully.
That works well for me and I learned it from visiting Maplemans shop. I saw his and do not know how he uses it but figured this method would work well and it indeed does.
Good luck
Dave, we developed a style where we dont build the kicks into the cabinet, we install all our kitchens too. We build a box except for the end cabinets and build a frame on site on the floor and shim to level and then we just set the cabs on top of it. Its been workin nice for years. plus you save on plywood to.
Hope this helps, Lou
Lou, do you screw the cabinets to the base or just let it rest on the base and anchored to the wall?
Yes I screw and shim to the bases
-Lou
DB
Consider making the base seperate from the carcass. When I build cabinets for a kitchen or bath, I lay a foundation the heighth of the toe kick, which makes it very easy to level and square the base cabinets. Then I set the boxes on top of the foundation. When it comes to an end panel, I simple let the toe kick come around the corner, except it recesses only 3/4" instead of 3"(+or-).
Hope I made sense of this,
Sean
When I cut the toekick notch, I use my 18v circular saw and a speed square. Measure the height & depth, mark with the speed square, then use the speed square as a saw guide. I cut to the marks, then finish the cutout with a Japanese pull saw. Takes about 2 minutes per side.
dbrudd ,
Several times I have built the toe as a separate piece and installed it before the cabinets only because the GC asked me to so the tile man could come in before the cabinet installation date . The toe had to be taller to net the correct ht after the tile floor .
However the kick still needs to be shimmed to level no different than if the cabinet were attached , so the shims are still there . I can't see any advantage .
As Donald was referring we can get 3 finished ends from a run when the end wall does not go to the floor as opposed to only 2 that go to the floor . Several advantages to the toe constructed under the cabinet is in case of water damage the toe kick can be easily replaced or re faced . The main advantage for me as a cabinet maker is it is very difficult to move the cabinets around the shop without any toe kick under them , more opportunity for damage to occur during building , finishing and moving to installation site .
The cabinet will then need to be screwed to the kick visably from inside the boxes , aesthetically it detracts not adds to the overall looks . At least here out West this is an acceptable practice . Maybe back East things are done in a different way .
regards dusty
Edited 1/14/2008 1:18 am ET by oldusty
i have built several set of cabinets.the last set i did i went with legs. you can order them at any cabinet site. i will never go back to cutting out toe kicks again. the reason i went with legs was because the home was on a slab and the owner wanted to run a few utilities under the cabinets.it worked out wonderfully.just added the plinths to the legs and added oak ply to the plinths. makes for a great hiding place to heheh
"a tugboaters life for me"
Dave,
I have found a simple jig made of MDF works well. It is simply a 90-degree cutout sized to accomodate my sabre saw. A couple of stop blocks and a clamp are all that is needed. Clamp in place, two cuts and on to the next one. Quick, easy, accurate, repeatable.
Hope this helps.
Butch
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