Replies

1. 
   tsproul | Apr 23, 2004 08:08am | #1

   Kickers.  and make sure EVERYthing is perfectly square.

   Tim
2. 
   SCFrankland | Apr 23, 2004 02:46pm | #2

   If you can get your head into a area where you can see where your problem is then mark it and trim it with a hand plane. After it opens and closes with a bit of friction then rub the wear surfaces with a bit of wax.

   Scott C. Frankland

   Scott's WOODWORKING Website

   "He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."

1. 
   tsproul | Apr 24, 2004 08:57am | #3

   Scott, he doesn't need to get his head in.  He can chalk the drawer surfaces.  Where the chalk wears off is where it needs to be planed a bit.Tim

1. 
   SCFrankland | Apr 24, 2004 07:21pm | #4

   True he can but I hate chaulk things up. Nothing better in my mind then to see what the problem.Scott C. Frankland

   Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."

3. 
   OneofmanyBobs | Apr 25, 2004 02:07pm | #5

   All my problems with binding drawers went away when I switched from briefs to boxers.  Plus a little wax.

1. 
   SCFrankland | Apr 25, 2004 08:33pm | #6

   I think I can speak for most here if not all, that is more informatoin than we needed to know.Scott C. Frankland

   Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."

2. 
   UncleDunc | Apr 26, 2004 08:26am | #7

   Talc works, too, but stay away from the powdered graphite.

1. 
   OneofmanyBobs | Apr 26, 2004 11:49am | #8

   I was going to try silicone, but figured I'd have problems later when I want to spray lacquer.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Apr 26, 2004 02:40pm | #9

   I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to tempt me into talking about hand rubbed finishes, but I'm not going to do it. No, sirree, I'm not.

1. 
   TimLoupe | Apr 27, 2004 05:04am | #10

   Gentlemen ,gentlemen , lets stay focused here.

   I understand that wax will lube up ones drawers, but

   I have not applied my finish yet, watco oil, and

   I still dont understand how to keep such a wide shallow drawer from getting wopperjawed as it's being pulled out. thanks for the input.

2. 
   tsproul | Apr 27, 2004 08:26am | #12

   Gentlemen ,gentlemen , lets stay focused here.

    

   I don't understand.....you've gotten 2, very viable answers.

   Use an upper guide...aka kicker.  If it is binding, find out the high spots and plane those down or redo with straight sticks and build everything square...as in within 1/128 inch diagonals.  Other option is to use metal or wooden drawer slides.

   Either choice will keep the drawer from tipping as you open.  'course, you'll need full extension metal slides if you want to be able to pull the entire drawer out without it tipping.Tim

3. 
   OneofmanyBobs | Apr 27, 2004 01:05pm | #13

   Wide drawers always get twisted and tilted as you open and close.  Metal slides help, but are not a cure.  A center "T" rail helps quite a bit.  Keeps the back down and keeps it tight.  A center slide is OK if its a very good one.  You still need enough depth to the case so the slide or rail can keep things straight.  Making the drawer a tight fit in the case makes it worse. 

   The best trick is overly complex, but works like a charm.  A gear rack on each side of the drawer, a shaft with pinions that engages both racks and is fixed on bearings that mount to the case.  Pull on one end of the drawer, the rack rotates the shaft which then pulls the same on the other end of the drawer.  Keeps it exactly parallel.  Same mechanism is used on flapper doors for "lawyer's" bookcases.  Modern copies use a much inferior system, but I think you can still buy the rack/pinion system.  The racks are just stamped sheet metal.  Shouldn't be real expensive.

   Because of that problem, very wide shallow drawers are often just hinged so they flip down rather than slide out.

4. 
   TimLoupe | Apr 27, 2004 03:50pm | #14

   I appreciate the advice on keeping EVERYTHING square and it is, within 1/128 I'm not sure, but I'm sure its within 1/64. I no I can put metal glides on and keep everything working smooth but I'm trying to go old school. Can I get more info on the "T" glide? Also do you think I am expecting to much from this type of drawer glide system ? Just trying new ideas and techniques. I don't have very much room ,its a shallow sofa table and the drawers have 1/16 reveals .I was wondering If everthing was to tight .

5. 
   OneofmanyBobs | Apr 27, 2004 06:57pm | #15

   36 wide and 10 deep.  Two problems - Keep it from tipping out, keep it from binding on the sides.  Most drawers rely on the length to keep everything straight.  If you try to keep it aligned by making it fit very precisely it will just bind up.  A "T" rail does 3 things.  Prevents the back from rising up, give a positive stop so the drawer can't pull completely out, and keep the drawer centered so it can't bind on the sides.  The rail has a "T" cross section and goes below the drawer in the center.  Wide part at the top.  A metal plate with a matching hole gets screwed to the back or the drawer.  That keeps the back of the drawer aligned on center and it can't fall out. Normally you have guides at the front also.  Since your case is only 1/16 bigger than the drawer width, you shouldn't need them.  Otherwise you use a pair of little "L" shaped guides on the front rail.  Can be a piece of brass angle or a nylon gizmo.  The rail makes it impossible for the back corners of the drawer to touch the case.  It can only touch on the front and on the T.  Can do the same thing with a ball-bearing slide, but I don;t think they look good on nice furniture.  The T rail has no visible hardware.  The rail and plate are hidden behind and under.

   If you try to have the drawer come too far out, it can still bind.  I'd put a stop block so the drawer can't come out more than maybe 7 inches.

6. 
   TimLoupe | May 02, 2004 03:25am | #17

   Bob,

   I decided to to take your advice , sort of. Instead of a "t" rail I'm using a piece of 1/4 round and a guide because I don't have the room for the "t" guide thanks for the ideas I'll let you know how it works 

   Tim

7. 
   Tao | May 04, 2004 12:19am | #18

   You might want to consider dividing the drawer into three separate drawers.  That will make them closer to square.  Wide, shallow drawers like you  want to make are pretty impractical. and the smaller drawers will work much easier.

   As for tipping, 10" is awfully shallow.  Well-fitted top kickers plus some kind of out-stop are the traditional answers.  Ball-bearing slides would be the modern answer.

   There are ball bearing slides that fit under the drawer and keep it very well aligned, but still give the traditional look.  That could also be a possibility.

   Michael R.

4. 
   UncleDunc | Apr 27, 2004 06:54am | #11

   OK, a few questions. Does 10" deep mean vertical or front to back? What is the missing dimension? When you say "tipping out," do you mean the drawer front drops down and pushes the drawer back upward so that it binds on something? Or do you mean that you pull the drawer out to a position where you would expect it to be stable but instead it tips and falls out of the case? Can you put the drawer in up side down? If you can, does it act the same way?

   I assume you're testing the drawer without any load, but what load is it expected to carry when you're done?

   What kind of wood drawer glides? Are these cleats attached to the drawer sides that run in grooves in the case, or dovetailed blocks on the drawer bottom that fit over a rail in the case, or what. If you purchased the glides, can you post a link to a picture of them? What kind of wood are the glides made of? Are the parts that attach to the drawer and the parts that attach to the case the same kind?

   Would it be possible to use full extension ball bearing glides instead of wood?

   With the drawer pushed all the way in, how much vertical play is there at the back of the drawer. In other words, if you could reach through the top of the case, grab the back of the drawer and shake it up and down, how far would it move? When you pull the drawer out to just before the point where it starts to tip, how much vertical play is there? How much side to side play is there? Is it different at different positions in the drawer travel?

   
   

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   Edited 4/27/2004 12:01 am ET by Uncle Dunc

1. 
   TimLoupe | Apr 27, 2004 07:14pm | #16

   First thing I should mention is I'm a novice at this chat room thing, so please excuse any faux pas I might be making. With that said good questions, 10" front to back 3" top to bottom 36" wide . I am building the table now so the top is off .The drawer sides are maple and dovetailed to a butternut front, and the drawer glides are also maple and tentively attached with screws to the front and backof the case. The glides are a simple "L" shape at the bottom of each drawer side to hold it from dropping out and control the side movement . Right now their is no type of kicker on the top because of the binding issue's. I was wondering about some type of sliding dove tail but thought it would make the problem evan worse. The tipping issue is when the drawer is pulled out, tipping down.Your right about no weight in the box. I would rather avoid using a modern drawer glide. I guess I don't know how smooth of a operation to expect. Thanks for the input.