Replies

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 18, 2006 07:22am | #1

   With stock that thin (1/2") you might have a problem with the biscuits telegraphing their location through the veneer.

   I know some have complained about this problem even with 3/4" ply, although I've not seen it in my own work.

   Others with more experience on this score will weigh in, but I would urge you to take a couple of scraps and biscuit them. Maybe try one with just a touch of glue in the slot. See what the samples look like in a week. Also, you might try glopping a little finish on your samples to see if that accentuates the problem.

   ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   bayou66 | Jan 18, 2006 08:42am | #2

   I love my Dewalt plate joiner, and it handles well - however the Porter Cables look nice

2. 
   CJ81stan | Jan 20, 2006 06:38am | #7

   Thanks nikkiwood,  I had not thought of the telegraphing.  I will try some test joints with varing amounts of glue.

   Stan 

2. 
   notDusty | Jan 18, 2006 10:41am | #3

    Hi Stan ,

                     I would urge you to use the best material you can get , not seconds . Especially seconds of 1/2" when you know you would be better off with 3/4" . My thought is for the extra time you will spend laminating and joining the thinner stock to be able to use the lower cost seconds the end results certainly will not be superior . Why not use the correct materials to begin with .   Even if you value your time at a few dollars an hour you may come out way ahead by having built a piece of true quality that you can be proud of . How much will you actually save ? Will that really matter in years to come . I have found that the savings on using anything other than the best you can get are quickly diminished thru frustration and perhaps an inferior finished product . Lastly using a 1/2" back on a built in job that gets screwed to the wall is not necessarily an added strength factor imo .

                            good luck what ever you decide on

                                                   dusty

    

1. 
   CJ81stan | Jan 22, 2006 06:45pm | #13

   Hi Dusty,

   The 3/4" vs 1/2" has been a bit of a dilemma for me - hence the post to this forum.  The plywood sheets  are seconds from a local manufacturer with some blemishes or damaged edges that would be unacceptable for distribution to retailers, other than this it is a tremendous value ( -- a 16 sheet project).  My approach is " what can I do to the design and construction to overcome the limitations  and challenges of the thinner material and still get a quality project.  

   --Stan

1. 
   notDusty | Jan 22, 2006 06:58pm | #14

   Hi Stan ,

                  I guess the horizontal parts of 1/2" doubled up would be fine , it's the vertical members or parts that worries me . Perhaps you could create frame and panels for the finished ends using the 1/2" for panels by creating a tongue on the edges . Or rabbet out the frames and use a simple molding to cover the perimeter .

             You  could certainly double up the 1/2" and use it throughout the project , a bit of added weight but it can work out fine .1/2" alone is a bit thin for joints and such imo .

                   good  luck                dusty

3. 
   Dave45 | Jan 18, 2006 05:05pm | #4

   I generally try to avoid edge joining any plywood since it's usually a real hassle getting the "good" surfaces perfectly aligned.  The veneers are so thin that sanding or scraping a slight misaligmnent can give you a sand-through in a heartbeat.

   I can usually edge join solid lumber and make the seam virtually invisible but I always see the seam in plywood - even if I nail the alignment, .

1. 
   CJ81stan | Jan 22, 2006 06:58pm | #15

   Dave -  I will not be doing any edge jointing- just the basic boxes 79x15x31.  I plan to assemble the boxes with biscuits (and screws  which will be hidden by molding) with a dada joint for a horizontal fixed shelf.   Solid cherry face frames and panel doors.  I am leaning toward pocket hole assembly for the face frames.

   --Stan

4. 
   RickL | Jan 18, 2006 05:07pm | #5

   I've done 1/2" plywood with biscuits and had no problem.

   Use regular glue not contact cement to glue your shelf plywood together. Weight on the shelf could cause the contact to creeps so the shelf would bow easier.

   I have a Freud biscuit jointer and I get fine results from it. I find it's the operator that's the big difference. You can give some guys a Martin saw and they still can't make a decent piece of furniture. You can't always blame the tool.

5. 
   mikegagne | Jan 19, 2006 09:42am | #6

   to biscuit 1/2 inch stock you will need 1/8" spacers if using a tabletop to register your stock from. The 1/8" spacers go under the wood and make the biscuits come out in the middle. Also, 1/2" will only accept 0 size biscuits or they will pop out from the opposite side of your slot. aloha, mike

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 20, 2006 09:20am | #8

   <<"1/2" will only accept 0 size biscuits or they will pop out from the opposite side of your slot.">>Run that by me again....................I use 20's on everything, unless biscuit width is an issue.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   mikegagne | Jan 20, 2006 09:30am | #9

   Nikkiwood, in this case its biscuit depth, they pop pout the other side of 1/2" inch material as the machine cuts 9/16 deep. "0"s only go 7/16 max or 10mm so they wont come out the other side of the 1/2" stock. aloha, mike

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 20, 2006 10:56pm | #10

   got it.............. I was thinking about biscuiting 1/2" sheet goods,and couldn't figure out what you were talking about.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

2. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 21, 2006 03:51pm | #11

   Mike, you can change plate jointer depth settings to install a biscuit off centre. For example if you want to join the end of a half inch shelf into the side of a half inch gable end and use a no. 20 biscuit to do it, you can set the jointer to cut to the 0 depth setting into the gable end. Then reset the depth of cut to the M mark to cut into the end of the shelf.

   I may have the numbers a bit wrong as I'm going off memory, but if anyone needs to do the technique some experimenting on some offcuts should soon establish the possible biscuit size and depth of cut settings.

   Whether or not it's a useful or valid technique to use in any particular project is a different issue. However, I can say that I've used biscuit joinery successfully in cabinets that have 12 mm sides, tops, bottoms with similar 12 mm (1/2") vertical and horizontal dividers. I don't recall ever having a subsequent problem with the biscuits telegraphing through, but that's because I know to leave the joint settle down for a few days or a week after using a water based glue in the final assembly. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   CJ81stan | Jan 22, 2006 07:29pm | #16

   I am not sure what you mean by having the joints settle down for a few days?

   --Stan

2. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 22, 2006 09:08pm | #17

   Water based glues add moisture to the wood, whether it's solid wood, plywood, chipboard, etc. This causes the wood to swell, including the biscuits, which in part contributes to the tightness of the biscuit joint itself.

   It takes some time for the moisture introduced into the wood by the joinery process to escape letting the wood shrink again. If the prep work and polishing is done too soon after the joinery the shrinkage happens after the piece is polished resulting in approximately oval hollows that can show.

   This matters particularly if biscuit joinery has been used on such items as solid wood horizontal panels like table and cabinet tops where any blemishes show up more readily than on vertical surfaces.

   I've found it's safest to leave the glued joints to settle for a few days with up to a week being about right. This applies to mortice and tenons and other joinery too to some extent. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

3. 
   John_D | Jan 23, 2006 11:37am | #18

   Well, I just learned something new.  Thanks!  Just goes to show the value of reading threads that don't seem to be relevant (I don't use biscuits yet).My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

6. 
   Segil | Jan 22, 2006 09:41am | #12

   When joining veneer edges, I typically use 3/32" thick full length splines 3/8" deep. I find the biscuits a bit ham-handed for such a delicate operation, and I believe that after finishing and in the right lighting, you may well see biscuits telegraph thru. This is not a chance I would be willing to take. I have a three-wing slot cutter that I keep for this purpose, and a supply of carefully thicknessed maple spline material. When indexed off the veneer face with a good router set-up, a light sanding is all thats needed to flush it out. I do this regularly, and it works quite well.

7. 
   Dan Quirk | Dec 20, 2013 08:28pm | #19

   Biscuit joining 1/2" wood

   Use strips of thin shim (veneer, etc) to raise the wood to be cut so that the cutter blade is pretty well centered in the 1/2".   Doing this will ensure there is no tear-out through the wood surface top or bottom.

   Be sure the shim is uniform across the boards and is dead flat.  If it's sort of springy, you'll need to push down firmly with your one hand while you cut  the slot with the other hand.

8. 
   [email protected] | Feb 14, 2021 05:54pm | #20

   Save your money and use your router with a fly cutter with a bearing.You can cut a slot as thin as formica up to a 1/8 inch.The router base will keep the slot parallel to the face. If concerned add a bigger base to the router for stability.One flinch with a biscuit joiner will ruin your project
   Years ago i purchased a router bit sized for biscuit.Dont even know where biscuit joiner is located

9. 
   _mj_ | Feb 14, 2021 07:12pm | #21

   I wonder if the project the OP started in 2006 is finished yet.

1. 
   weymouth2 | Feb 14, 2021 07:27pm | #22

   Perhaps he’s waiting for more forum feedback. Can’t rush these things.

2. 
   john_c2 | Feb 15, 2021 04:08am | #23

   There's about a 50 percent chance it's still not done.