Is there any shelf life span on joiner biscuits? I’ve had them for some years and all of a sudden I wanted to use them and they wouldn’t hold correctly. I have read that the holding power was great.
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Replies
Peltrie,
Biscuits have a very short shelf life. Yours have obviously already expired. Get rid of them. They will do you no good.
Also, once you've had expired biscuits in your posession, they set up a field which destroys any new biscuits you get. So it is worthless to buy any new ones.
You'll have to stay away from biscuits from now on and you'll need to rely on real joinery methods. Don't worry, you'll be just fine without them!
Rich
I have had issues with them swelling up and i have heard that if you microwave them the will shrink back but that is about all. What do you meen they are not holding?
And PLEASE all let us not turn this into a Biscuits are no good (the bane of evil that they are i am sure) and should not be used thread.
Doug Meyer
Well,
If you want to take a chance with expired biscuits, go ahead.
But don't say I didn't warn you. I knew a guy who used expired biscuits. Eventually his wife and kids left him. Lost his life's savings, and now he's on skid row. I tell you, they can be nasty!
Another guy uses only "good" joinery. His wife loves him. His kids look up to him, he's a pillar of the community. Last I heard, he bought a new house. A big one, up on the hill.
Rich
Doug,
If biscuits are the bane of evil, then they are good. Especially dripping with butter, and covered with homemade raspberry jelly.
Biscuits:
2 c flour sifted
2tsp baking powder (make sure it hasn't expired)
1 tsp salt
1/3 c shortening
2/3c milk
Sift together dry ingredients. Cut in shortening with forks or pastry blender til mixture looks like rice granules. Add milk all at once. Mix swiftly, knead a few times, and roll out 1/2" thick immediately. The more the dough is handled, the tougher the biscuits. Bake 12-15 min at 425*F or til brown. Serve piping hot.
These biscuits are good! Not like those corrugated ones they sell in the woodcraft catalog. Those are just about inedible.
Ray
looks like a good bisquit recipe, but how high will they rise? to cut slot that fits one of those will be a mighty task!
gm,
The opening they fit best is commonly called a piehole.
Cheers,
Ray
lol, well said. i believe my pie hole could fit a couple of those biscuits at a sitting.
"And PLEASE all let us not turn this into a Biscuits are no good..."I just had 3 for breakfast with some country gravy. They were VERY good!
Gool Lord! I came upon this thread at the last and had to go back and read the whold thing to make any sense out of it - and that didn't help!
You've all gone MAAAAAAAAAd!
Happy New Year! Ah, that's it...you've all started the party early
Happy New Year Indeed!
Mike D :)
Not being certain what a "kipper" is, but suspecting that it's a peculiarly British perversion, I went to the BBC seeking a definition. Here 'tis...
Kipper (from the BBC) "The 6.8m adults still living at home are dubbed Kippers, and accused of eroding their parents' retirement savings."
??????? Perhaps Wikipedia will know.
Mike D :)
Well who knows what they are talking about those guys from England really nead to learn how to speak englinsh i am telling you. :)
Doug Meyer
That's nasty! The Britts eat people for breakfast?
Mike,
My daughters don't live at home and yet they still make attempts on the retirement funds. I tell them that is plane money now and to go see their husbands, poor wretches.
If you have never been to Craster and ate a kipper, then you haven't lived. It's the oil (especially in the head end) that gives you that Special Feeling (but probably also the spots).
Happy New Year to All, even the Scotsmen (but don't touch that sheep, she's mine)!
Lataxe the inebriated
"Fish heads, fish heads. Eat 'em up. Yum!Sunday morning delicacy here is kippers, smoked white fish, lox, cream cheese, onions and bagels, rye bread and pumpernickle.Happy new year everyone!Drive safely. Remember every car you see has a drunk driver behind the wheel.Rich
you forgot "Rolly Polly"
Arbroath Smokey…Mmmmmmm!
Now the funny thing about offal is that it is hard to eat au naturale, as the lumps are slimy and the texture cloying. A slobbery liver or steaming brain is not for me; and “sweet breads” look anything but.
But mince the offensive stuff with some proper muscle-meat, barley, pepper and the like; then you have a delicious faggot or even a haggis, as mentioned by yon Celt. Even now the ladywife is busy in her kitchen making something of this ilk. I have learned not to go in there when the ingredients are raw. (And her a vegetarian)!
American breakfasts did confront me in <!----><!----><!---->Nevada<!----><!---->, once. They are alarming as you cannot see over the top of them. Also there are things in the mound that are strangely coloured; and with puzzling shapes. I also noticed that the average waist size of my fellow diners was circa 52 (inches not centimetres). Lastly, the coffee was hot coca-cola with the taste taken out (indistinguishable from your beer, apart from the temperature).
Nevertheless, the ladywife did bring back the recipe for them pancake things you eat “stacks” of. Once and again I am given a small stack (ie you can still see out the dining room windows) along with her goosegog conserve, crème fraiche and even maple syrup. I have special trousers to wear afterwards, for the day.
As to bubble and squeak – I prefer mine made with yesterday’s brussel sprouts and cauliflower, although spring cabbage riddled into the mashed tattie is also good. At this time of year, Bub&Squ is a regular breakfast, along with thick-sliced bacon from pigs that root happily next-the-wood just a mile or so away.
And someone said leave Galgate for The USA! I couldn’t afford all the new trousers and your pigs do not root happily.
Biscuits? Best used to hold joints in wood together and should not be spoilt with “gravy” (which, in the <!----><!---->US<!----><!---->, is coca-cola with the taste taken).
Lataxe, having a day off from the shed, gym and everything except eating.
Not My fault you don't know a good breakfast when you eat it.
Well I would say more but I am off to get my Bacon, Waffles (with fruit and whipped cream) and a stack of pancakes with sausage. Just a small breakfast today as I have thing I need to be doing and can't spend the whole morning eating.
You know I want to get over to England soon but everyone tells me I better take food with me as you guys don't eat anything over their that I would feed to my dog (if I had one) and I was thinking they were nuts but now....... I am beginning to think maybe they had a point. Heck you guys probably don't even have good french fries for lunch. :)
Well off to breakfast
Doug Meyer
Doug,
Should you come to England I will ensure the ladywife stuffs you with her delicious viands, just to prove a point. You will need temporary trousers, unless you burst first. (What a way to go - with a tremendouss burp and a smug smile of repletion).
As to chips (as "french fries" are properly called) I avoid them because of that trouser problem. I only have so much money you know; and there are apparently many more types of plane to buy than I at first realised, so I must make do with existing trousers.
Lataxe Thinseat
Ah, but you forget that we are a large country with many varied regional delicacies. For example, here in sunny Southern California breakfast is a coffee beverage that must be described in 10 words or more (Venti half-caf, half-decaf percent sugar-free hazelnut no-foam latte) and on rare occasion something from the pastry display chest, such as a non-fat blueberry/sour cream muffin."Light the lamp, not the rat! Light the lamp, not the rat!!"
Rizzo the Rat, A Muppet Christmas Carol
Oops. "Fish heads, fish heads, rolly polly fish heads. Fish heads, fish heads, eat 'em up, yum!"
Oh Mike. Get with it, man. ;-) Kippers are truly nasty food, er, delicacies. Some folks like Lataxe enjoy them. He probably enjoys those disgusting Arbroath Smokies too.
However, to set against his peculiar tastes in food, I'm very fond of haggis, black pudding, and the traditional Brindian Saturday night curry along with copious quantities of warm, brown beer, as strong as possible-- 5% to a rare 8% will do..
Here's a definition that'll suffice.
Kipper: fish cured by splitting, salting, and drying or smoking. A breakfast food in England, kippered herring is poached, grilled or baked.
It's from, http://www.cooksrecipes.com/cooking-dictionary/K-search-results.html
Here's another definition from Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipper
A kipper is a fish which has been split from tail to head, eviscerated, salted, and smoked. Typically the species is a herring or salmon but traditionally it would be any fish found in great numbers caught during its spawning period. Spawning fish are not good to eat fresh, and usually arrive in great abundance, thus they are salted and smoked to improve flavour and preservation.
Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Man what is next? Blood Tongue? Ewh!
Doug Meyer.
"Also, once you've had expired biscuits in your posession, they set up a field which destroys any new biscuits you get. So it is worthless to buy any new ones."Bahahahahhahahahahaaaaaaa...that made me LOL
Very funny Rich!
I especially like the part about "they set up a field which destroys any new biscuits you get."
I should add that there are many woodworkers that think biscuits have their place in the modern woodshop: On the shelf!
Hal
http://www.rivercitywoodworks.com
Sounds like a bunch of bull to me
Have a nice day Lee
All issues of the merits of biscuit joinery aside (disclaimer: I use 'em -- sometimes), biscuits do not "expire". They may swell and become too tight if moisture gets to 'em, but otherwise, they are just wood and wood does not deteriorate with age if properly stored. Is your glue as old as your biscuits? If so, you may have a glue problem, not a biscuit problem. You might want to be more specific in describing the problems you are haveing. "won't hold correctly" is a bit vague.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
P,
Firstly, you must ignore the mad ramblings of Rich, who has been eating funny mushrooms again. He was once frightened by a biscuit and believes one shall someday do away with him, in the night. (He's right, one will; I am training it up now). :-)
You may find the info in thread/posts: 31220.17 & 19 of interest to your problem.
If the biscuits are slack, even after glueing and wetting, the likely culprit is the biscuit jointer (or your technique in making the slots). For example, if the cutter is slightly loose on its arbour, you will get a too-wide slot. A sloppy fence might also have the same result. Even excessive vibration might do it.
If you can, measure the slot width, as well as a dry and wetted biscuit, with an accurate vernier; then compare your measurements with the measurements quoted in the aforementioned thread.
Lataxe
Edited 12/29/2006 1:29 pm ET by Lataxe
Peltrie,
No, no. You must not listen to Lataxe. Even as we speak, he is perfecting his technique with (shudder) chisels. He is learning to make accurate, rectangular holes in wood with these chisels, called mortises. Into these mortises, he will, no doubt fit accurately-sized tenons to make the dreaded Mortise & Tenon joint, the mortal enemy of the biscuit.
Oh, the horror! The shame!
How can you trust the advice of a man like that!? Why, he even makes his own, magnificent mallets with which to drive his chisels. Does he use biscuits to attach the mallet's handle to the head? No!
A real biscuiteer would never associate with such a, um, er, . . . woodworker!
Rich
Edited 12/29/2006 2:01 pm ET by Rich14
Rich,
I have a plan to integrate a biscuit joint with an M&T.
I will make the mortises for a loose tenon then put biscuit slots across them both at right angles to the direction of the mortise slots. Then I will make a loose tenon with a slot in which the biscuit may be inserted, to match.
I will use handtools to make the biscuit slot and the tenons, just to be different. It will be good chisel practice. Perhaps I will even hew the biscuits from scraps, using my carving axe. Neanderthals will then find it harder to criticise my Wonderful Innovation.
Voila! The Mortbisc joint, a super-strong product of the dialectic and the joint of choice for all Excellent Furniture of the Future. Of course, Festool will then make a machine to do the whole thing with one push and a brrpping noise (only $1678 before sales tax - tooling and tenobiscs extra).
Hang on! I haven't patented this design and now you will all copy me, thus doing me great harm in ways I have not yet worked out!! I must get me one of those American lawyers........
Lataxe, New Model Joint Designer.
Of course, this will be a pinned M&T joint, yes? With the pin simultaneously engaging the tenon and the biscuit?
There's a thought - a double pinned mortenbic joint!
Whilst we're at it: perhaps it is possible to split the biscuit and include wedges, so that when assembled, the wedges are pushed home and the biscuits open internally.....? The biscuit slot would need to be a kind of dovetail-dado shape.
Lataxe, having a topological nightmare.
PS It would be interesting to know if the original poster has solved his biscuit problem....(No more "cute", I promise).
Lataxe,
Now you're talkin'
If you are going to split your biscuits, I recommend the insertion of Virginia ham. If left whole, smothering them with sausage gravy is best.
Gustatorily yours,
Ray
I have joined panels with biscuits and then pinned the underside of the panel with brads so I could remove the clamps. Never failed.pins (no pun intended)
Pins,
Your cunning technique with the biccies & brads has been entered in my Little Book of WW Lore. :-)
Strangely enough, I have dowelled through the large S6 biscuits (as I think they are designated - it might be S9 but one is huge whilst the other is tidgy, which is very confusing labelling by Lamello; but I digress) when using them in pairs as substitutes for loose tenons between table aprons and legs. (Small tables only of course). I used those sticks you get for barbecues to make the dowels. There are some good quality hardwood ones of about 3mm / 1/8th inch diameter that work well.
Does it make a difference? I've no idea; but why not, eh?
Lataxe
Lataxe,You are a very bright fellow, indeed. Your charm and personality are only exceeded by, probably, Lady wife's roast beef!I don't think pinning the biscuits makes a whole lot of difference after the joint is dry, but certainly helps if you need to use the clamps for something else, or the space that the glue-up is taking. And I think your idea of using those 1/8" skewers is a very good idea.pins
Hang on! I haven't patented this design and now you will all copy me, thus doing me great harm in ways I have not yet worked out!! I must get me one of those American lawyers........
Do it quick! Now that you've disclosed it, you have one year to file for a U.S. Patent. You've thrown away your chance to get a patent in other countries, though. 'hate to break it to ya. ;)
Anybody knows that biscuits are for breakfast.
PTU, Ray and other biscuit-eaters,
In Britain we are civilised in our eating habits and eschew biscuits for breakfast in favour of kipper, porridge and muesli with plenty of aggragate in it. This is why we are all slim, lovely, intelligent and nice-smelling, whilst our former colonials are ..... as you are. :-)
Biscuits-instead-of-kipper is also the reason why you use dangerous tablesaws and are obsessed with old chisels and similar. Why not turn over a new leaf and eat a kipper (or two!) for breakfast tomorrow? Your IQ will increase immediately, those pains in the region of your glutes will disappear and you will be ordering a proper TS from Germany, as well as a Lamello from Switzerland, within the hour.
You know it makes sense.
Lataxe, rehearsing a jingoist meme for no good reason at all.
Lataxe, old bean,
"This is why we are all slim, lovely, intelligent and nice-smelling, whilst our..."
You left out "modest", my lad.
Kippers, eh? Wots next, lutefisk? Hows about some nice Virginia ham, fried up till the fat turns brown, and a stack of griddlecakes to sop up the red-eye gravy; if you eschew biscuits, won't you chew the fat with a Yank?
Time for brekkies,
Ray
Ray, the estemed Latax forgets that they also invented "bubble and squeek" where you save all the cabbage, carrots and spuds left over from a corned beef dinner the previous day, dice it up coarse and fry it in bacon fat . Then there is the mixed grill breakfast that would kill two men a small boy and a horse. To wit; Irish blood puddin sausage, rashers of bacon, bangers, rashers of smoked pork loin, hash browned spuds and eggs. Oh and a dainty cup of ASAM BREAKFAST TEA.
My parting meal as I headed north was biscuits and sausage gravy where I get gas on 11w. Happy New Year, Paddy
Man if I could have understood what you said I would be appalled.
Doug Meyer
Paddy me lad,
Bubble and squeak, oh yes, and moreover, where is Lataxe but with his face in the trencher, when they are handing out the toad in the hole? Turns up his nose, he does, at our biscuits and gravy, but I'll warrant he's not hidin' behind the door when bangers and mash are on the table. Pro'ly stuffs 'is face wi' taties and neeps as well, when he thinks we're not looking. Kippers, is it?
How did we get here, all the poor fellow wanted was to know if he had a bad bunch of compressed wood wafers...
Hijackingly yours,
Ray
I'd rather eat a biskit than a kipper, we use that stuff for trap lure.
aside from all the hoo-haa, is the problem solved or not?
P, (on the serious side)I have used them for case work and face frames, to a fault, and I can only see that your slots were too big or as Dr. Hennessey says your glue was too old.
The glue thing is something that we never focus on and I never buy more than an 8 oz. , or so, unless I know that I have a larger requirement in hand. All of the adhesives have a date code just like food but just like food some ya can read and some are encrypted. A ww mag published all the codes some years back and I saved the issue instead of nailing the page on the shop wall so now I have no clue where it is. FWW should do an article and let us know the codes that are now used.
On the non serious side, thanks to Sir Lataxe the clever, we can now skewer our biscuits instead of the 8 to the pound shrimp or the sea scallops wrapped on bacon after all kippers fur breakfast E' says , a right guvnur E'is . I promise him an unlimited breakfast at the Waffel House of his choice if he gets to East Tn. with biscuits and sausage gravy that is not brown Mr. axe it is a creamed style gravy (white) and to die for when properly done--and I'm a Yankee.
All the best Mr.P. ,Paddy
Paddy, me lad,
No need to apologise for being born in the North. You're doing the best you can, under the circumstances--moving south, and appreciating gravy. That's a pretty good start. Not sure you'll ever l'arn to talk right, though.
Take care,
Ray
Move south, like gravy? What are you suggesting sir? Is someone here a Johnny Reb? :) Thems fighting words up here. OF course I think about half the population of Detroit started off south of the Mason Dixon line, so that may explain the fights.
Doug Meyer
A northern boy until I can figure out how to make a living in West Virginia, at least.
Doug,
Johnny Reb? Ah thought th' late unpleasantness was ovah. Now y'all are startin' with th' name- callin' ag'in.
Ah reckon that th' numbahs of exports ta Deetroyt , is about half t' the numbah of Yank impoats t' Florida, don't y'all?
Simmah down, boy. No need to get all het up, talkin' 'bout fightin'. He'p youahse'f to a glass of bourbon and branch; it'll be al' 'ight, by'n'by.
Cheers,
Ray
Well I think the big issues up here is that a lot of people came from the south to work in the factories (back when that was a good idea in the 50s and 60s) so we have a LOT of southern types running around up here. To here them talk you would think that the south one the Civil war (er excuse me I mean war of northern aggression for you that speak southern American english vs northern American english) Not bad but a few of them that I know like to drink that funny jet fuel/paint stripper that comes in those funny jugs, and after a few of those they get a bit um, well lets just say they get a bit and leave it go at that. A friend of the family use to call himself a hightech red neck because he could program his VCR (this was a while ago)
And as for the people moving to Florida, well it is gods waiting room so.... That being said I have a LOT of relatives that are down their from a number of aunts/uncles a few cousins and a brother.
Personally I would be happy in W.V. I think that is one of the prettiest states around. Funny thing is my grand father came from their when he was a teenager (back in the 19 teens). But I don't have any close family (that would be Kin to you southern types I think)
Of course if I did move south I would have to learn a second language! (and I don't mean Spanish) I used to have a book that was a guide to translate southern to English. It said that the first thing you need to know is that damnyankee is in fact one word. :)
Doug Meyer
A damnyankee with southern dreams.
Doug,
<<It said that the first thing you need to know is that damnyankee is in fact one word. :)>>
Question: What's the difference between a "Yankee" and a "Damn Yankee"?
Answer: Damn Yankee stayed....
(I have this on good authority: my Texas-born Southern-Belle wife.)
;-)Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
LMAO
Ok that was good. I liked that one. I used to work for a company that was HQed in Plano TX. I had an admin Assistant that worked down their, Never did meet her but she was so funny because she kept trying not to say Ya'll to me (her words not my complaint) and in the couple years we talked she never did manage it. I have to say I have a bit of a thing for those southern drawls one a girl. Maybe it is just because we don't have that up here and it is the grass on the other side of the fence bit but I really don't know.
Doug Meyer
Doug,
Oh yes, that Southern way of talkin' just lights my <censored by the Taunton Anti-Adult Topic Police> !!!
Another thing you need to know about talkin' Southern:
"Y'all" is singular.
"All Y'all" is plural.
[And in Boston, a "Y'all" is a boat.....]
;-)Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
James, according to my middle daughter all Y'all's is plural possesive. This was her attempt to educate the "the old man" as she worked for Habitat in Americus Ga. for years. Paddy the damyankee.
Wouldn't " Y'alls' " be plural possesive not " Y'all's " ? :)
Have fun working wood, Paul
Paul, ya forgot that all Y'all is the proper plural so all Y'all's becomes plural possive by default.
Now I am sure that there may be local varients in the South Carolina woods and in La. with the Cajuns.
All the best Y'all, Paddy
Hi Paddydahat,
I stand corrected :)
Paul
I thought in the South that was always one word not two.
I do believe you're right.Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
I love biscuits and use them all the time. Biscuits are made from a type of wood that will easily absorb moisture so they will swell in the biscuit slot and give the joint strength. It is best to keep your biscuits in a sealed container. I've never put biscuits in a micro-wave, but this process will dry out old crackers and will probably work on biscuits.
To All,
Bought a biscuit jointer for my cabinet shop about 15 years ago......... It's still in the box
Paul
Cole,
I tried to find a site that exlains how to open boxes but there don't appear to be any. :-)
Or is it that the biscuit machine is just too frightening a thang? As with many modern thangs, try giving it to a teenager, who will show y'all how to use it in 5 minutes.
On the other hand, if it is a Lamello send it to:
Lataxe of Galgate.
Edited 1/13/2007 1:36 pm ET by Lataxe
What type of Biscuit Joiner do you have and how much do you want for it?
Biscuits don't really hold much. They mostly help align your parts for glue up. If you are doing end grain to long grain, then you have a small spline, to help you have a real glue joint, but it is not as strong as other methods.
Biscuits are like every thing else, good for some stuff, and not so good for others.
K,
You say: "Biscuits don't really hold much. They mostly help align your parts for glue up".
On what evidence do you say this? Have you a piece made with biscuits that has fallen, or been pulled, apart?
I have used biscuits a lot, as M&T substitutes and otherwise; every piece remains intact and strong. Are you just repeating some myth you read or have you evidence?
Lataxe
As a matter of fact I did have an event with a biscuit joint falling apart. It was a triple biscuit joint on a porch glider. My nephew perked up when he heard of my glider.
"What is the wing span?" I have done very few joints, so little experience, the glue might have been too old or ????? I wound up putting in a couple large SS screws. Haven't given up with the biscuit yet and can't wait to get back in the shop to try some more.
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