Just tried out my new Porter Cable Biscuit Joiner. Way cool! Never used one before. I checked out the FWW video clip and the recent article before firing it up. Rather than using a holdfast to secure the work piece I used a bench hook. It worked well but I had to make sure I pushed the piece against the back of the bench hook to secure it. The piece would move a tiny (very tiny) bit to the right if I didn’t. Is this crazy dangerous ? It works great and is fast as hell. I wasn’t sure if this tool is capable of flinging the work piece across the room if I didn’t apply adequate pressure. It doesn’t seem so but better to check with those who know. Unless I figure out or find out this is stupid I’m going to build a wider bench hook to hold longer work pieces. Would appreciate some feedback from those with experience using this type of tool.
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How do you get rid of those stupid thumbs-up! I get them every time I post.
i'm new to this, and i just posted for the first time. my post has that, i thought that maybe all new posts had that. is that supposed to reflect people's interest in your topic, or what?
peace
The thumbs up appears in every thread you post a reply on. It indicates you have "high interest" in that thread, because if you weren't interested, you wouldn't have posted. Click on that thread, and down at he lower right, below everyone's ramblings/rantings, you'll see an option to reset the interest level.If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.
Yep a buddy of mine tried out my new PC BJ and tore his hand all up. I dont use it unless I can secure the material now after seeing that. I hate the site of bloodd especially my own
Darkworks: Underground, In the Peoples Republic of California
Thanks for the info. I'll clamp it down. No desire to biscuit join my hand.
Mikev,
One of the things to be leary of is going too fast. A few months ago someone posted a note about an incident where they did not let the blade come up to full speed with each cut...you can get into a bad habit of pulling the trigger and pushing at the same time...it's best to wait a bit before pushing.
I just got a DeWalt which is the same machine as several other brands. I got some issues with it. First, the trigger on the handle is ridiculous -- I'm constantly activating it inadvertantly. Second, the carriage return spring is far too weak, When using it in the vertical position it is much too easy to inadvertantly push it down and I've wrecked several pieces because of this. Third, the horizontal fence should be a solid plate, not an open frame. This makes it very hard to use on narrow pieces.
It should be a no-brainer that you gotta clamp the workpiece down.
It's been a while since I've seen a dewalt biscuit joiner (I have a PC). Are there holes in the fence which one could use to attach a piece of ply. That would stabilize your machine on narrow workpieces. Just a thought...I am not a liberal.
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Yes, it can fling the work. The biggest gotcha I've heard of is when someone gets really lazy and tries to hold the work and push the tool into it. The wood gets flung and the operator pushes the tool into their own hand or limb.
One of the mfg's puts the handle on the stationary fence ####'y rather than on the motor ####'y. Seems like a better design, but whaddaiknow?
Edited 8/26/2003 10:39:17 PM ET by Jim
I cut a biscuit slot in the knuckle of my left thumb by holding the workpiece instead of clamping it. As soon as the blade was fully engaged the workpiece shot out and my thumb was in the way. It seemed like a much better idea before that happened than after. By the way, I have this funny nerve damage that makes it difficult to tell where on my thumb something is touching.
I mentioned that embarrassing episode in the hopes you'll remember to use clamps when appropriate. I have a buddy who uses a plywood jig with a couple toggle clamps for edge and end joining. works good and it's still pretty fast.
Chad
I am not a liberal.
Edited 8/27/2003 9:01:22 PM ET by Chad
It's funny you should mention the toggle clamps. That's exactly what I was thinking once I started reading the responses I was getting in this thread. I have one kicking around in my junk pile. I'll have to order another.
The method I initially described did not actually involve me holding the piece in my hand. I used the tool to press the piece against the back of the bench hook. I'm sure I'd be asking for trouble if I continue heading down that road though. I've done a few stupid things with power tools in the past and been lucky to date. Slowing down is something I need to work on. Bouncing things off others helps tremendously.
Slowing down is a very good point Mike. I made a few cuts on the table saw last night in a real hurry. No problems but thought after I was finished that was "Not as Smart" as I could have been. Doh!
I biscuit cut against a wood fence clamped to the table or a Quick Grip Tool and Edge Guide. The workpiece is not clamped but there is a solid edge behind and sometimes add an end fence. Works good for me and most important I'm comfortable with it. Never really totally free handed it.
Enjoy, Roy
It seems reasonable to not clamp some items. I hold long, wide boards and anything which will adequately support the stock while keeping my hands away from the blade. I hope it's not blasphemy, but needless clamping can be tedious.
Chad I am not a liberal.
Although I generally enjoy Norm's show, it drives me nuts most of the time he uses a BJ, because of the lack of safety. Couldn't swear to it, but I think sometimes he'll take a small board, prop it on his knee and zap it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Congratulations on purchasing your new biscuit joiner. I owned a DeWalt biscuit joiner for about 2 years and used it a lot. It is a good tool, and can come in handly for several types of joints. A lot of classic woodworkers love to hate the biscuit joiner, but several new furniture books and plans I have seen lately have started to use biscuits in several types of joints. I've noticed that many of the good woodworking magazines, including Fine Woodworking, have incorporated biscuits in their plans.
The most common "new" use for biscuit joints that I am seeing is to use them instead of dadoes in bookcases or other kinds of casework. This is one of the ways I always used my biscuit joiner, and it does produce solid shelves. With good reinforcement from the back of the shelf, it is a good method.
I got rid of my biscuit joiner because I was getting sick of inferior biscuits. You should keep in mind that biscuits must to be stored in a VERY DRY environment. You should make sure not to use biscuits that are too loose or too tight in the joint. Also, make sure to dry fit ALL YOUR BISCUITS before glue up. Finally, try to determine the exact amount of glue you need in your biscuit slots, or you will produce gross amounts of squeeze out.
Good luck, and report back on your success!
Edited 8/28/2003 9:16:41 PM ET by Matthew Schenker
Either FWW or AWW mags did a review in last couple of years and rated some of the machines poorly because of the various systems they used to grab the work. The DW pins system works well. I normally push the work piece against a couple of bench dogs. Someone mentioned difficulty with coordinating the trigger and plunging in rapid succession. The DW has a trigger lock that eliminates that issue. I've found that moving too quickly leads to misaligned slots though. Leaving the motor on keeps it up to speed which leaves a cleaner slot, especially with regard to that little annoying chip that clings where the blade exits the wood. When doing hardwood the dust port/bag combo usuually plugs up, but most of time I have it hooked to the vac. I too have had problems with inferior biscuits, now I only use Lamellos. A big Orville Redenbacher popcorn jug is my storage vessel of choice, keeps 'em dry and I live just a couple of miles from the beach. I'd like to have the Lamello metered glue bottle that Norm uses, but can't justify $65 for a gadget. John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
If your biscuits have swollen you can beat them with a hammer to squash them thinner. In the middle of a glue up, it's faster than going to the store.
I heard about using the microwave to dry the biscuit if they are swollen. haven't tried it my self though.
Ole.... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....
My main work table is set up specificaly for my biscut joiner. (I do a lot of case work.)
The table is 3 1/2 feet wide and six feet long. on the main work side I have a sets of holes for each cabinet width I commonly work with. The holes allow me to take a quick grip clamp and use it as a bench hold down (see attachment)
With this set up it's very easy to clamp down one or stack multiple pieces and cut slots in the faces, or wherever.
Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
Haven't tried the microwave thing myself (still saving up for that PC557), but I have heard of people just sticking an obstinate biscuit in a shop vise and really cranking on it to get it down to size just enough to fit in the slot.
HTH,
Monte
Like I said just buy Lammello biscuits and keep them dry. Biscuits are like glue, even the best are so cheap there's no reason to skrimp.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
i'm guessing you have a new 557? the newer ones (for several years now) are "type 2" due to a patent infringement dispute with dewalt. this means that when you fold the fence up parallel with the cutter face (0 deg or 90?) they aren't flush. you'll notice the fence is still about 0.010-0.015 proud of the adjacent surface. so when you try to cut slots in the face of a board or panel (which is a very common situation) the cutter face- with its sandpaper gripper- is not firmly against the material. this causes a few problems- first, you won't have good traction when you hit the gas; it's easy to get off square to the surface; and the depth of the cut is not the same as when the face is pressed completely the stock.
however, there is company that sells an aluminum shim with a new abrasive face to cure this problem (in other words, bring your new toy back into full patent infringement! which is legally ok for you to do on your own, btw) as i remember, it's about $10 incl postage. it comes with very good instructions, but i would recommend pealing off the double stick tape and using 5 minute epoxy instead. when i used the tape it slipped over time (probably due to pressure against it in the case) and i had to redo it.
if you're interested, let me know and i'll dig out their name and info.
oh, and i use one of those sticky rubber mesh mats on my bench for most of my biscuit cutting. with good downforce on the fence it holds everything fine. also, nothing is cleaner than a biscuit joiner with a vac attached- you could run one in an operating room. the chips just have nowhere else to go.
have fun!
m
Interesting, I hadn't noticed. Shame on me. I would love to have the info on the shim.
Mike
No shame on you, shame on PC for putting out a defective tool by design. I hope the guy that slammed Jet for derrivitive machine design (Unisaw cloning) in another thread reads this. If Jet can't design original machinery at least they have better lawyers :).John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
The Fly-By-Night Copper Co., 408 S. Howard, Newberg, OR 97132
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
don't know if they're still in business, it's been a couple years since i dealt with them. but with a name like that, it makes a body wonder...
m
Maybe they specialized in overnight deliveries. Ooooooo.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Ah, you haven't lived until you try freehanding a BJ on a router table in end grain. Just put up a target on the wall to the left and keep score!!
I checked out the website. They say the new "Type 3" plate joiner doesn't require the shim. So I snuck into the shop after tucking in the little one and sure enough it's a "type 3" tool. I suppose this is the third iteration of this model?I took a closer look at the fence and noted that it is flat and has a sandpaper type grippy thing near around the cutter head opening. Guess I'm good to go in that dept. Thanks for the heads up though.
i hadn't heard porter cable had brought out a new model. i wonder how they managed to deal with the patent infringement issue? clever engineers or lawyers?
i just read an article on biscuit joiners and it recommends using the bottom of the machine (instead of the fence) to register your cuts whenever possible. the units are typically designed to center a cut in .75" thick stock from the bottom of the frame. it seems to make a lot of sense and in many cases should actually simplify the set-up. i'll be trying that more in the future.
thanks for letting me know.
m
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