I brought up Black Locust in a pretty random thread on Woodworker’s Cafe:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages/?msg=14390.23
Jon Arno agrees that “black locust is one of our most underutilized domestic timbers…and yet, functionally, it’s as good as many of the tropical species we are importing for use in exterior projects such as decking.” We don’t agree very often, so I’ll take this as a good sign.
Anyway, I’ve worked on and off with a guy who’s growing and promoting black locust (http://blacklocust.org , but the site’s out of date). He has some, but it’s early yet in his project, so I’ve kept looking for suppliers of black locust in forms other than fenceposts. It makes for a really nice deck, since the stuff is pretty much impervious to the elements. It doesn’t need pressure treating, and doesn’t shed arsenic, copper, chromium, etc.
Black locust grows like a weed – it’s considered a weed in some places – and offers the weird combination of fast growth, hard weatherproof lumber, and soil renewal (since it nitrogenates the ground.) There are some varieties of locust (‘shipmast’) that grow straight for excellent lumber, though straight locust generally also requires that it grow in a forest, where the light comes from more or less straight up. It grows across a large chunk of North America.
It’s tough to work – planing and jointing seem okay, though the grain can be strange, and you definitely want to drill pilot holes for screws. I’m hoping to work with Dave on putting together a site that explores how to work black locust, and I think that would help, but there’s not a lot of the stuff commercially available anyway.
Apparently, it used to be a popular wood up through about the 1800s, used most for outdoor projects like fences, sheds, masts, and outdoor furniture. Somewhere along the line it disappeared, except as a household tree or weed.
Seems like a pretty cool tree to me, and I’m planning to replace my front steps and back deck with it, but it’s odd to me that it’s generally unavailable. Pressure-treated’s had problems and is changing, imports of tropical wood for decking in particular seem to be increasing, and here’s a tree that has their qualities and grows here and fast, but doesn’t get much use.
Odd.
Replies
Hey,
I am in the middle of a project using BL right now; I'm making a toy box for a 4 year old that I want to last forever, no matter what he does to it. I've tossed resaw scraps, some like 1/8" thick, outside and left them there in the rain and snow for months. All that's happened is they've turned a gorgeous red color. It's hard as nails, too. Trying to plane it by hand felt like trying to plane concrete. The plane just skidded over the surface. Now, I'll admit my planing skills are rudimentary, but I've never failed to even take a shaving before. This stuff is outrageous. It's awfully heavy, though. It might seriously outlast cedar or redwood outside, but I wouldn't want to try and drag around an Adirondack chair made of BL, for example. And it seems more prone to tear and chip out that other hardwoods, to me. It burn marks pretty easiy, too, although not as easily as something like cherry.
Another overlooked wood is Russian Olive. Basically a weed where I live (Colorado Front Range), but absolutely stunning when finished. I just turned a piece of RO firewood that I inherited with a house I bought into a spindle; looks tropical. Stinks to work it, though.
There's a small business in my area where I can get stuff like this, wierd local woods; it's an arborist that got sick of throwing away good local wood and bought a sawmill. He sells BL for $4/BF. RO is $5, elm and boxwood and such are $3. It's all roughsawn 5/4, which works for me, and all airdried to 10%. It's harder to make something from wood like this, but far more satisfying for me, anyway. He has a website, http://www.tcwoods.com; maybe he has connections with somebody near you doing the same thing.
Charlie
Charlie, your comment that the scraps you left outside 'turned red" puzzles me...and I'm wondering if the locust you're using might be honeylocust, as opposed to black locust.
Honeylocust has a richer, reddish brown color, while black locust has a yellowish gray cast. Both are very durable woods (black locust has the better decay resistance), but honeylocust is slightly more ring-porous, has a more showy figure and is a little softer and easier to work with. Like black locust, honeylocast is another of our underutilized hardwoods...and personally, from the cabinetmaking perspective, I think it's the prettier of the two. It's more like its close cousin Kentucky coffeetree, which is an exceptionally nice cabinetwood.
I sure do agree with you on Russian olive. It has a beautiful, cinnamon brown color and a very nice figure. Its only drawback (aside from being a small tree) is that the wood is extremely brittle and it checks easily.
Jon,
Well, the arborist told me it was BL, and it doesn't look like the honey locust I've sliced up pieces of (we've got one in the front yard. They produce scads of small dead branches, for some reason.) I agree it's not red initailly and I didn't expect it to turn red, but it did. Now, I don't want to be misleading, it's not red like the HL, but it's acquired a brick red color outside. Go figure. And, I agree whole heartedly that HL is the more attractive of the two.
CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I, too, have black locust that turns red. I have finished it with linseed oil and left it raw outside, although the oiled stuff seems to be more red. I know the wood is BL as I cut it myself and honey locust does not grow wild here in VT.
I do notice that sunlight seems to affect the color. I built my truck bed of the stuff and it is a nice red/brown. The spring wagon that I redid with BL is not so red, but it lives in the barn alot. Could be a reaction to UV? Also the redder pieces came from very different soils than the pieces used in the spring wagon. Could soil pH and nutrients play a role?
B Locust is a great wood. I use it often for outdoor projects and will bring some indoors the next time I get a chance. My sawer cuts, buys and mills the stuff regularly. He showed me the 8x8 beams for a Boston area timber frame that he was milling! (Someone is a glutton for punishment.) I even saw some of his lumber milled for flooring at the local hardwood dealer. I have a display of different local species that I bring when I display furniture. More and more people can identify the B Locust and are using it for counter tops, outdoor things, even freestanding fine furniture.
Jason
Jon,
Where does Black Locust grow? any chance there might be some around here in Minnesota?
Frenchy, as is pretty much the case with every living think that has any common sense whatsoever, you're located well north of black locust's native range. I think in a pinch it will survive up there and you may have the occasional cultivar planted for either landscaping purposes or by farmers for fence post stock...But you're right on the edge of Honeylocust's range...so your chances of running into honeylocast at your local mills is certainly the more likely prospect.
Black locust has a rather sporatic distribution, it's not particularly plentiful even here in southeastern Michigan, but it's very plentiful in the central Appalachians and it's also pretty common down in Missouri and Arkansas.
thanxs
Charlie,
Tell me more about your Colorado Front Range source. That's my area and I can't get the link to the website to work.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim,
Guy's name is Dan; he's got over 15,000 BF of local hardwoods. He'll also saw your logs for a fee. He wan't quartersaw 'em though, and has a minimum length. Try just writing the URL into the browser, or copy & paste; I couldn't get the link to work either, but the address is good. I'll try the link again. http://www.tcwoods.com. You can also just look up T C Woods in the Boulder/Lafayette/Louisville phonebook.
You're in the Front Range? Fun. Where 'bouts?
Charlie
I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Charlie,
Thanks, the cut and paste thing worked. I didn't have a clue there was anybody around this area that did that sort of thing. I'll certainly take a run up there and look around. I live in Arvada, but worked in Boulder at one time and it figures something like recycling urban wood would happen there first.
Nice to know there is someone else on this forum from the area.
Jim
And there's Osage Orange. Very, very rot resistant, stump wood is an orange color even after 15-20 yrs outside, no decay, no fungus, and no insects. I think this would be good wood for decking, outdoor furniture, window/door sills usw. I would not use it for bowls or forks/spoons, just because it naturally has anti-fungal properties doesn't mean it can't kill you. This jobless recovery has done more to promote the consumption of exquisite chocolate than the finest chocolatier. Cost be damned.
Have you ever seen osage orange available in an affordable price range to be used for decking??
Inquiring minds want to know...
"There are no rocks in Fannin County."
That was the reply I got from a lady when I asked her where the old cemetary records were for Fannin County TX.
Makes perfect sense when you realize that no rocks means no old tombstones, hence no old cemetary records!
Seems that instead of rocks for tombstones they carved grave markers using Black Locust which would last 60 to 70 years before returing to dust.
Some time later I drove through Fannin Co. and there weren't no rocks nowhere!
ps - I got a whole passel of standing Black Locust up in OK. Pretty big stuff too. Any buyers??
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
There's at least three of us. I'm in Longmont. --and I'm thrilled to learn about TC Woods!
Thanks for the link.
-M.
I agree on the utility of Black Locust - - I do use them for fence posts and even porch posts for my house - I think it is underappreciated, but also it is important to recognize the negatives - it tends to be a small to medium tree and often crooked - Deam: "The locust has the habit of having the branch end in a fork, this giving rise to one or more very large side branches" - the 'shipmast' accension you mention sounds intreging - do you have more information on it?
also from Deam: "...reports from all parts of the state show that locust groves wherever planted are being killed by the locust body borer. ...also been attacked by the twig borer, bag worm, and the leaf miner. ...until they can be controlled, the planting of locust for commercial purposes may not prove profitable." (1932 - Indiana)
the wood is also hard on edge tools, but modern equipment should be able to handle it....
Simon, In these parts, the Blue Ridge Mtns, Black Locust grows to be a full sized tree, anywhere from 24" to 36" in diameter. But there has become a blight of sorts that affects the tree. It has become more and more common to find rotten segments in the sawn lumber. The local word for this is pronounced "dough-tee". And this is in addition to damage that is done to the tree while standing by carpenter ants. It is still the tree of choice for fence posts and the like and I have used it for deck floor joists and decking, after sorting out the "bad". It is a conundrum how it grows so fast, is so dense and has such preservative qualities. One of it's best features, as far as I'm concerned, are the gorgeous blossoms in springtime. It makes the most beautiful translucent amber colored and absolute best tasting honey known to humankind.
Bill
http://www.sawmill-exchange.com/index.htm
http://www.mobilemfg.com/
http://www.baileys-online.com/
http://www.woodmizer.com/welcome.html
Check the phonebook and the mill manufacturers/sellers for portable sawmillers locally. Local tree service guys will know of them, too. Few advertise but lots of them out there.
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