Hello ou there……
I am close to finishing a big heavy black walnut dining table that I have been working on and am starting to think about how to finish it. I want a clear finish, to show the natural beauty and color of the wood. Other than that I am open to suggestions. You have a complete novice in finishing on your hands here but I follow directions well and am detail oriented.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks Gary
Replies
Who is going to use the table (children)? Everyday use or formal dining only?
I made an elliptical coffee/end table consisting of an oak top and walnut base. I expected my children to do everything to it, including stand and jump off it (and they have). I finished it with about five coats of tung oil (real tung oil, 50% diluted with turpentine) to bring out the figure in the top and then three coats of low gloss water-based poly. I gave the tung oil a week before applying poly to fully cure and outgas without being sealed in. The finish has held up very well.
I would suggest using Waterlox. I have had great results with it on Walnut. I like Waterlox original finish, about 6-7 thin coats applied with a rag and wipe off the excess and sand between each coat. In my opinion it gives good protection and looks great. I have also use Solar Lux NGR dye stain (med walnut diluted about 2x with Behlen's reducer) to give the walnut a little warmer color. Looks great, but it is always a personal choice.
Another is Behlen's Rockhard table top varnish. I haven't had as good of luck with this as I have with Waterlox and tend to lean towards the waterlox for appearance.
Good luck. Try several samples to see which looks best to you.
BLO for several days, let it sit and cure for a month. Shoot it with gloss nitrocellulose and rub it out.
Thats my vote anyway. Beautiful, durable.
one part each of tung oil, boiled linseed oil, and polyurethane makes a beautiful easy finish.
Is this combination wiped on or brushed on? Also.. how many coats of it do you recommend.. and is there sanding inbetween? Thanks..
bill
bill, i prefer to wipe it on, two to ten coats, depending on the thickness and look you want, with a light scuffing with 400 between. sometimes i like to just put three coats on and 0000 steel wool the surface for the right sheen. thanks for asking.
Thanks very much. I plan to try this combo and looking forward to the results.
bill
Gary,
"Ricky is that you?",
I back your approach for the transparency and top finish. I use the Watco in place of the boiled linseed (I think it may be the same stuff). Just make sure the "wetting " material (watco or boiled Linseed) is cured. Depending on the temperature I let it sit a minimum of 3 days in a warm place, wiping the surface daily with a soft cloth. A week is better.
Polyurethane finish, yes, any old phlegm in a can, no. I use the Flecto Varathane as it is thinner than most and you can multi-coat it lightly wetsanding between coats to get a flat surface and a smooth finish. I one-coat the verticals and only multi-coat the top. That way you preserve the wood feel of the verticals and the top comes out as flat and durable as formica. Yea it is a quirk but it really looks finished when this is the finishing method.
PS on the Flecto Varathane. there is a "Professional " version as well. it is more $ and harder to find but it floats on and levels better than anything I've ever used.
Sorry on the I Love Lucy Pun. Too much coffee this AM.
Last thought. Leave the stain in the can. Heart wood and sap wood are the same wood and they are points of interest that draw your eye. Any stain looks like stain. I can spot it as can everyone on this board. I made one piece of furniture (loveseat) with a stain in the final formula and I keep it in the basement. You have to be a chemist to make it unrecognizable. If you feel compelled then mix a couple of stains before you use it. 3 is the artists minimum! Test it with topcoat before you do the table. The problem is pores fill with color and growth vs annual rings accept the color differently. Natural is best in my opinion.
Now have fun doing it.
Edited 12/10/2002 9:32:09 AM ET by Booch
Gary,
Aaah walnut, my favorite wood. But when finishing this species first you need to decide whether you insist on #1: the walnut retaining its current "Hershey's chocolate syrup" color or if you #2: are ok with the wood over time changing color to a warm golden brown (especially if the piece gets any sun). If #1 is chosen then perhaps a stain and UV resistant poly are the choice of products. If #2 then Minwax wipe on poly is pretty user friendly preceding with sanding sealer of course.
Post again about your decisions then we'll take it from there. Other forum members have written good advice as well.
sawick
Gary and All others
I am in the process of finishing a walnut china cabinet and have used Minwax Special Walnut stain #224 to darken the color. Right or wrong that is where I am at this time. My plan was to apply several coats of wipe on poly, after reading these comments I would like to know if better options are still available.
Bo
I love Walnut.
I use a wiping varnish cut 50-50. About 8 coats.
Do you folks stain walnut? It is such a wonderful color and texture that I let it go au naturual, sapwood and all.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
I use lots of local black walnut (california black walnut) from old stump sprouts in the area (an old english walnut orchard). I use watco clear first, one coat after sanding, raising the grain with water, and sanding to 220. The watco develops the color much better than just plain clear poly.
Then, I put on coat after coat of wipe on poly up (satin) to about 8 coats for a table. Sand between coats with a firm block and 220, then 320 for the last coats. Before the last coat, I use 0000 steel wool.
About two to three coats a day will work, if its warm. Then, I wait a few days and steel wool to a matte finish. Last, I buff it up with a polishing compound, then a terry rag to get an "oiled" look. No difficult high tech stuff here - just lots of coats with a bit of effort between.
I've not been very happy with water based finishes compared with the wipe on polys. Water based doesn't repair well at all, whereas the wipe on does.
Watch out for the walnut dust. It is acrid and very irritating to the lungs - it gets my asthma going.
I know this a little of topic but does anybody have any comments/experience about/with shellac on walnut?? Probably definitely not suitable for a dining table but what about other pieces of furniture?
Brill-
There was a long thread a couple months ago about just that. It has persuaded me to use garnet shellac on a walnut bookcase I'm (slowly) working on. Many people here have commented on the "grey/greenish" tint of kiln dried walnut, and how orange and garnet shellacs add back some depth to the wood color without obscuring grain. I'm a convert already, although this will be my first time with shellac and I haven't started finishing yet...
Kevin, I am one of those who likes to use orange or garnet shellac on walnut to warm up the tones. On my last walnut piece, I used two coats BLO, one coat garnet shellac, and then 3 coats of super-blond. I think more coats of garnet or orange would be too dark, unless that's what you wanted. Maybe its just me, but it seems like the depth of tone of shellac can be deceiving when you first put it on.
Yes, I use orange shellac on black walnut. It brings out some of the golden color without making it a lot darker. If you use dewaxed, you can use a wash coat or two as a sealer, then top-coat it with a more durable finish of your choice.
do you think that orange shellac would be good on mahogany, also???? thanks
Made a tall Shaker style clock while in MI this summer. Used (2) coats of clear watco, sanded, then about (6) coats of dewaxed blonde shellac flakes, thinned pretty good. I don't measure too good, just guess. Sanded with 320 between coats, then (2) coats of Fiddes Jacobean wax. Can't tell it from a Howard Miller or a Sligh clock!!
Jim
Brill: Also making daughter/grand-daughter jewelry boxes out of "figured" walnut (has a tiger like stripe in it) and am using the same finishes except, put a coupla coats of dewaxed garnet shellac before the blonde & wax. I guess I'm hooked on shellac.
Jim
Don't know if you've ever seen Sam Maloof's work, but he is "the" American woodworking artist, and he works almost exclusively in walnut. He finishes his work with a combination of linseed oil/turpentine/varnish. There is a packaged finish bearing his name that, I think, Rockler carries. It's what he has used for many years and means he doesn't have to mix up his own finish.
Rockler carries the finish and also carries an overcoating that Sam uses on lots of pieces. That overcoating has wax in it, and he doesn't use it for tables because the water can cause rings. So, if you use this finish I'd use only the first one, not both.
John
PS - I was lucky enough to sign up for a class given through UC Riverside which is a full day at Sam's shop. I'll get to spend a day with the master and see where his does his magic and get him to sign my two Sam Maloof books. Quite a treat for me.
I have read all the great information provided and realized that there is more than one way to do this. Making a table does require a hard finish but I am at the stage of applying a finish to a walnut king sized bed. I thought about staining to try and make the color uniform but after reading I have decided against this option. Thanks for the advice. I would rather enjoy the true texture and variation of the wood rather than trying to creat what may just look artificial. I believe that I will use Tung oil finish and apply 5-7 coats. Will hold on the poly since this is not a piece that will take the abuse of table top etc.
John I was reading through the Walnut finishing info and noticed several different thoughts regarding Walnut finishing. I'm building a Walnut Entry Foyer table and the individual wants it natural. I noticed someone advised to use sanding sealer before a natural finish. I planned on just wiping on several coats of Watco satin poly. There is some white wood showing, couldn't cut it all out. Thanks, agriffee
One thing you could do is make some sample pieces and finish those. I'm not a finishing expert, by any means. For instance, does the piece need to be protected from water (glasses may find there way here?)? Sam doesn't use (I think he doesn't anyway) a sealer for his walnut pieces. The Maloof finish is available from Rockler. It's probably not as "protective" as poly, but it's also more beautiful.
By the way, I have some walnut pieces and most of them have sapwood. Done right, it actually adds character. What Maloof does with sapwood is to abut pieces so that the sapwood has a mating piece and looks "natural".
John
Thanks for the info John. agriffee
I have recently used both Minwax wipe on Poly and a jell varnish on wood projects. I was extremely pleased with the wipe on poly even though I used six coats. It was the most professional looking surface I have been able to achieve.
The varnish was a flop as far as I was concerned as it was more difficult to use than expected and took a very long time to dry. I was not pleased with the look either.
I will next use a blend (varnish, tung oil, linseed oil) which apparently will provide the look and durability you're after. Everyone of these things takes days--maybe weeks to do right. With my stuff, humidity was a problem, so it took longer.
Whatever you choose, be sure to finish the bottom.
Gary,
All the good advice you've gotten! I'm surprised there is no mention of filler.
As for a finish for a dining table: The most important thing for you is absolute water proof finish. Shellac is not your best bet. Varnish is. My favorite look is flat alkyd varnish for the final coat. Clearly some people like polyurethane. I prefer alkyd varnish. And I prefer flat over satin or gloss. Number of coats? As many as your energy will allow for. On the top, no less than four. The leveling properties of your finish are important. Thin this varnish to maximize leveling so that brush strokes are not visible. Brush strokes will show themselves more later after some inconsiderate person drags something abrasive across your finish. I always start with a first coat of sanding sealer suitable for alkyd varnish. It drys quickly and makes it so much easier to sand.
But most importantly for a smooth finish on any open grain wood, you'll need to use a paste wood filler to fill the pores, or the open grain will hender your finishing efforts and final finish quality. Famowood is the brand I'm familiar with (available at your neighborhood home center). There's a walnut color. Get the thinner too. This stuff is a pain in the you know what, but it does the trick. Thin the paste so it's easier to handle. Use only in a well ventilated area as the fumes can be overwhelming and detrimental to your future responsiveness. Wipe on and press into the grain with a narrow putty knife (1 1/2"). It drys quick (like in seconds) but that turns out to be no problem. And it's opaque and ugly going on but not to worry - you sand that off. What you want to do is work it into the pores and scrape of the excess to minimize the sanding effort after. Then when dry - sand, but don't sand through the filler. That is, definitely sand down to the wood, but don't sand away the filler that's in the pores of the open grain. In any area where you have sanded through those pores and their filler, be sure to reapply, as those areas will stand out as soon as you have applied your first layer of finish. It's good to inspect edges, etc. with a magnifying glass prior to calling it done.
Of course, apply filler after all prepatory sanding and before any staining of sanding sealer.
Anyone who knows of another paste wood filler that is suitable for this purpose, I'd like to know about it. I have not experimented with other fillers available in the stores. I'd also like to know of any other process that produces the same end result - filled pores.
John Gaiennie
Baton Rouge, La.
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