Replies

1. 
   Bonka | Dec 09, 2003 04:51am | #1

   aj;

   Try this URL    http://www.newwoodworker.com/clnblades.html

2. 
   jhausch | Dec 09, 2003 04:58am | #2

   Oven cleaner and a scotchbrite pad works really well. (wear gloves)

   Steelkilt Lives!
3. 
   RW | Dec 09, 2003 05:21am | #3

   I'll second the merits of ten seconds of EZOff. I like the lemon scent myself. This is something of a debate around here - whether or not it will damage the brazing on the carbide tips and send them flying into your unsuspecting eyeball when you kick the saw on again. My opinion, and that's all it is, don't leave the stuff sit there overnight. It really works almost as soon as you put it on. I've got blades that I've cleaned in this manner a dozen times and no eyeball losses . . . yet. Clean away, clean away. If you're superstitious, step aside when you kick the saw on again.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

4. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 09, 2003 05:32am | #4

   aj

      According the Charles Mac at Freud, they found that oven cleaner has a chemical that deteriates the carbide on blades. Take it for what it's worth. They are a manufacturer and I give their testing some merit. It's probably better than the testing I can afford at home. ha..ha...

      I clan mine with simple green and a medium stiff nylon brush. Works for me..

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   numbfinger | Dec 09, 2003 05:42am | #5

   I just picked up some citrus / orange stuff at the local woodworking shop. When I say that my blades were dirty...

   There was probably 3,000 bf of pine and hemlock all over my Tenryu. Everything it touched burned instantly! I sprayed this stuff on... let it set for 10minutes or so,and wiped off. Good as new!

   (now if only i hadn't used my Woodworkers II to cut that vinyl siding)

1. 
   Biscardi | Dec 09, 2003 07:00am | #6

   I bought some spray stuf out of one of the catalogues. I was displeased to shell out $5 for  little bottle. However, there probably is 5 years worth of stuff in there.

   I think it made a big difference. My blades had gotten pretty pitched up. I don't think ovencleaner is such a good idea.

   Edited 12/8/2003 11:11:24 PM ET by BISCARDI

2. 
   desertrat | Dec 10, 2003 03:53am | #19

   Had the same experience with my Tenyru.  Orange Blaster, soak, scotchbrite and it was as good as new.

6. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 09, 2003 07:18am | #7

   Here is the answer from Freud when asked on another forum.

   >>>> QUOTE <<<<<<

   Definitely avoid oven cleaner and other caustics. They attack the cobalt binder in the carbide and can lead to carbide failure (translates to tiny missiles of carbide at 100+ mph). Also, Freud and some other brands of blades have a tri-metal brazing foil that uses copper alloy for a cushioning layer. The copper can also be affected by these cleaners (translates to larger missiles of carbide). We recommend soaking overnight in kerosene in a vented container and using a stiff nylon bristle brush to clean. Teflon coated plates will clean up with a soapy cloth (except for the teeth as mentioned earlier). There are commercial blade cleaning products that are not caustic but we don't officially sanction them. I've personally used Simple Green concentrate with good results.

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc

   >>>> END QUOTE <<<<

7. 
   Dale | Dec 09, 2003 07:35am | #8

   Most saw sharpening shops clean the blades prior to sharpening them, so why should you clean them.  But, to answer your question I've use EZOFF-OC, green stuff, TSP.  I noticed a few issues back FWW had a blurb from Forrest and they said the over cleaner did not harm carbide saw blades. The last thing I heard that the sodium hydroxide (?) degraded the carbide so you would need to resharpen them more often?? I personally would not be afraid to use EZOC myself.  I've got a large plastic Tupperware thingy with tsp mix.  When I change blades to to a special cut I'll soak the removed blade in the tsp mix for a few hours, scrub off with a tooth brush and rinse off with water.  Once again if........I was in a hurry I'd grad the yellow can of EZOC....Dale

   P.S. EZOC will burn you, so be careful

8. 
   forestgirl | Dec 09, 2003 10:05am | #9

   I used to use oven cleaner until Charles M. from Freud posted his recommendation not to.  I have switched to Simple Green (found in grocery and hardware stores in the cleaning section).  It's sooooooo much easier because I don't worry about wearing gloves or leaving splatters of it around.  It works great, every bit as well as the lye did.  I have the BBQ formula, which clings as it's rather foamy.

   forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

9. 
   GT | Dec 09, 2003 04:25pm | #10

   First off,the blade sharpening guys will clean before they sharpen.But during regular use L I use fantastic.Works like a charm.

1. 
   jako17 | Dec 09, 2003 04:45pm | #11

   Has anyone tried just hot water? I have found that 160 F water works surprisingly well, especially on  pine resin

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 09, 2003 06:49pm | #13

   jako

      If you clean it as soon as you have finshed cutting, I find warm water will work. Once that pitch dries, it takes a different character. You can wipe egg of a plate with water after you eat. Let it sit and dry and then pull out the chisels. ha..ha...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   IanC | Dec 09, 2003 08:21pm | #15

   Oven cleaner, Simple Green, denatured alcohol, they all work well.  So well that I can't see buying the specialty cleaners sold at ww stores.  Years ago I confiscated a 12" pizza baking pan from the kitchen. The sides are only about 1/4" high and it's just right for soaking a 10" blade without wasting a lot of cleaner.  My personal preference is to lay the pan on some newspaper, spray both sides with E-Z Off, let sit about 2 minutes and hose off with some pressure.  Toss the wet paper and you're done and you hardly touch the blade. If any pitch is left, it'll be in the gullets and can be popped off with a knife.

2. 
   jako17 | Dec 11, 2003 03:53pm | #33

   160 * F   is a bit more than warm! It gives serious burns in 3 secs

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 11, 2003 07:24pm | #34

   jako

      What kind of hot-water heater do you have? My wife wants one to use cleaning teen-agers rooms.  ha.. ha...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

10. 
    VeniciaL | Dec 09, 2003 06:23pm | #12

    Denatured alcohol.

    I hold a damp rag over as many teeth at a time as my hand will cover. 5-10 seconds per section and the gum is gone. Little or no brushing or scrubbing action is needed. The gum just wipes right off after a few seconds.

    VL

11. 
    charlesm | Dec 09, 2003 08:17pm | #14

    Kerosene is what I recommend as any caustics such as oven cleaner will attack the cobalt binder in the carbide and the copper in tri-metal brazing. I have used Simple Green with success but you should read the following which was copied from the Ridgid Forum before using it:

    *Quote*

    "Simple Green has been successfully used by many woodworkers over many years as a good spray-wipe-and rinse cleaner for saw blades. When pitch is fairly fresh (within a 12 hour period of deposit,) it is fairly easily removed by Simple Green. Older, dried out pitch is much more difficult to remove. What we do not recommend is long-term soaking of cobalt/carbide blades in Simple Green. Long exposure like this can possibly cause cobalt leaching that will, in turn, effect the integrity of the carbide. Shorter term "spray/wipe/rinse" applications do not pose that kind of problem. We would recommend dwell times of full-strength Simple Green upon cobalt/carbide steel to be no more than about 15 minutes.

    As mentioned in my earlier email, if you have a blade that has an older, tougher buildup of pitch, try soaking the blade in strong coffee overnight. Several folks have told us that this does work.

    I hope that this information is helpful to you. I apologize for confusing the issue previously. I made an erroneous assumption that the blade would be soaked for extended periods of time.

    If you have any additional questions or concerns, please let me know.

    Sincerely,

    Carol Chapin

    Environmental & Regulatory Coordinator

    SIMPLE GREEN

    (800) 228-0709

    [email protected]"

    *End Quote*

    Charles M

    Freud, Inc.

1. 
   IMERC | Dec 09, 2003 08:22pm | #16

   Ough oh... 

   Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....

2. 
   forestgirl | Dec 09, 2003 08:24pm | #17

   "We would recommend dwell times of full-strength Simple Green upon cobalt/carbide steel to be no more than about 15 minutes."  I guess I'm not letting my blades get dirty enough, LOL!  5 minutes works for me.forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

12. 
    DaveMartins | Dec 09, 2003 10:24pm | #18

    Yep "Simple Green"  Spray on both sides and lay on table of saw.  Realize you forgot the paper towel, walk to other side of shop to pickup (1-2 minutes) and wipe blade clean.  Wipe off table of saw now because its wet anyway. Oh ya wipe safty glass' and realize why you couldn't get that spot off the saw table....

    Dave

13. 
    ron61 | Dec 10, 2003 03:59am | #20

    If you are sending them to be sharpened why clean them first they will do it before sharpening.

    I know every one will get all over me but soak them in gasoline over night.
1. 
   ajm | Dec 10, 2003 04:26am | #21

   the main reason i was going to clean them before sending them is that most of the blades really havent been used that much so they shouldnt be dull yet. alot of these blades have cut construction grade lumber (while i built my house) and even some of these have cut...(god forbid)... pressure treated lumber. that stuff is so wet and gummy it coats a blade real quick. I think i may try the orange blast stuff i already have it around here to clean up after the 2year old. if that doesnt work i will probably try diesel fuel soak. thanks for all your help.

14. 
    leehold | Dec 10, 2003 04:32am | #22

    aj:  I'll add my 2 cents worth. Try household amomia available any grocery store for about a buck a bottle. Let blade soak a few minutes and wipe off or use steel wool. Works great and you can reuse the amonia. 

1. 
   Dale | Dec 10, 2003 06:32am | #23

   I just remember I've got a 1/2 gal of ammonia in shop for something, wonder if I bought it for blade cleaning, is this the first sign of .....Dale

1. 
   VeniciaL | Dec 10, 2003 08:01am | #24

   Dale,

   Memory is the second thing to go. I forget what the first thing is.

   VL

   Edited 12/10/2003 2:53:57 AM ET by Venicia L

1. 
   Dale | Dec 11, 2003 02:52am | #28

   Now I remember what I got the ammonia for: brush cleaning, I think.  Then I learned to use a rag and wiping varnish and shellac, works great and cheap and easy clean-up.   I wonder if they have a GREEN pill for memory, the BLUE pill works great for the first thing that goes, : ' >.......Happy Holidays to all........Dale

2. 
   PATHFNDR | Dec 11, 2003 01:49am | #26

   LEE,

   I too, have been using ammonia for years. It's stinky, but works fast, really fast. I use it straight out of the bottle and it only takes seconds to work, using a rag to wipe off the residue. You certainly can't beat the price.

   Ken

15. 
    bsutton12 | Dec 11, 2003 01:06am | #25

    I have been using Arm & Hammer laundry detergent which we use anyway.  A couple of tablespoons in a couple inches of hot water in the sink.   15 - 30 min later the build up brushes off easily with a toothbrush.

16. 
    stevemorris | Dec 11, 2003 02:36am | #27

    soak in oven cleaner overnight an wash in warm water

    caulking is not a piece of trim

1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 11, 2003 04:17am | #29

   Steve, how much do you let the pitch build up that you need to soak the blades in lye overnight?  Wow.  Not real good for the carbide, from what the Knots Freud rep reports.  (Hi Charles, how are ya?).forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

1. 
   stevemorris | Dec 11, 2003 07:51am | #30

   i cut a huge amount of particle board and mdf, and that stuff gums the blades up really quickly, they need cleaning long before sharpening

   btw all, i have recently retired my oldest freud 86 atb blade after 12 years of use and weekly soakings in oven cleaner

   there is not enough carbide left for another sharpening!!!!!caulking is not a piece of trim

17. 
    hammer1 | Dec 11, 2003 08:44am | #31

    From the various responses to your question I wonder if the MSDS warnings are read and understood by those that recommend harsh and dangerous chemicals. We suck in enough nasty stuff just making saw dust why add amonia, oven cleaner, monoethanolamine, petrolium distillates, etc. Even if you don't care about your respiratory system you should care about the environment. If a handfull of Dentists can poison a whole watershed with mercury, imagine what thousands of woodworkers must contribute. I clean my blades, cutters and bits regularly between sharpenings with hot soapy water and a fingernail brush. Keeping things clean will make them last longer between sharpenings and improve the quality of the cut.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Dec 11, 2003 10:40am | #32

   Is it still OK to use ammonia for fertilizer? How about washing windows? Fuming oak for Arts and Crafts furniture? So how did it suddenly become an environmental offense to clean saw blades with it?

   Is it still OK to use oven cleaner for cleaning ovens? Well, I won't debate oven cleaner with you, since the blade makers are now telling us not to use it.

   My car engine emits unburned hydrocarbons and everybody seems to accept that as a cost of doing business. Why should cleaning saw blades with petroleum distillates be any different?

   If you're that concerned about the environment, why are you using power tools, anyway? Don't you know all forms of electricity generation harm the environment one way or another? Of course, using hand tools won't get you off the hook, either. Making cast iron, for instance, is a notoriously dirty process. Maybe you should start chipping chisels out of flint.

   Tell you what. All the global warming people say carbon dioxide is a pollutant. You stop exhaling carbon dioxide and I'll start scrubbing my saw blades with hot, soapy water.

   Edited 12/11/2003 3:18:59 AM ET by Uncle Dunc

1. 
   hammer1 | Dec 12, 2003 10:41pm | #35

   Geez Uncle Dunc did I hit a nerve or just catch you on a bad night? I hope you don't really want me to stop breathing just yet. Amonia is a naturally ocurring substance that we all make everyday. Not an environmental threat but it is caustic meaning that it will burn your skin, eyes and mucus membranes. Something to keep away from children. I didn't die from cleaning the hen house but it wasn't my favorite chore. Awhile ago I got organized with my MSDS and actually read them. There are a number of chemicals that woodworkers use, are exposed to and then dispose of. Some chemicals like Amonia just dissapate into the environment but others build up and can impact large areas. Call me wacky but I think if you are using something that could harm you or others you should know about it. As far as human activity impacting the old globe that is inevitable. I think most are aware of limited resources and efforts are in the direction of improving consumption. If you and I and a hundred thousand other woodworkers routinely dump a quart of laquer thinner down the drain every year and all of a sudden we stopped, would that be good or have no impact at all. I do like your idea of going back to stone though, nothing lasts quite like it and you don't have to clean any blades.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Dec 13, 2003 05:00am | #37

   >> I hope you don't really want me to stop breathing just yet.

   I hope you don't really want me to stop cleaning saw blades with ammonia or lacquer thinner just yet.

   It's way too easy to steeply discount the valuation another person places on a particular good. You value very highly the use of the atmosphere to dilute and dissipate your CO2 output. You are (quite justifiably) distressed to think that I might seriously see no value at all in your use of that resource, and casually suggest that you stop using it.

   Since you get along just fine with hot soapy water, ammonia and lacquer thinner have no value to you as blade cleaners. You apparently feel that since you see no value in them, we, your fellow woodworkers who do value them are simply wrong. And because we are wrong, you apparently feel that your bare assertion of environmental harm in using and disposing of them, unquantified and unsupported, should be reason enough for us to stop using them. I won't speak for the rest of the woodworkers, but I was distressed that you would discount my valuation down to nothing, without even knowing how I arrived at that valuation.

   Of course, the parallel isn't complete. I did know how you arrived at your valuation of the atmosphere when I suggested you stop using it, and if I accept your advice and stop cleaning my blades with ammonia, I'm not going to die of it.

   >> If ... all of a sudden we stopped [pouring lacquer thinner down the drain], would that be good

   >> or have no impact at all.

   You missed one possibility. It might actually be bad. What if evaporating it is worse than pouring it down the drain? What if the people who quit using it chose a even less eco-friendly substitute? What if people neglected blade cleaning and sticky blades caused more injury accidents? What if the extra power it takes to saw with a sticky blade resulted in coal and oil fired power plants generating more and/or worse pollutants than the flushed lacquer thinner? At the margin, how many woodworkers would decide it's too much hassle, give up, and start buying plastic covered particle board furniture? What would that do to the environment?

   >> ... others build up and can impact large areas.

   Both your messages caution against toxins that accumulate in the environment, which is a valid concern. But as far as I know, none of the blade cleaners we've mentioned fall in that category. If they do, let us know. Otherwise, using the accumulation issue to demonize the use of substances that don't accumulate is dirty pool.

   It's one thing to get on the forum and suggest that there are personal and environmental costs to using ammonia or lacquer thinner that might be cause for reconsideration. It's quite another to say that we "should care about the environment" enough not to use them, without any evidence that they are environmentally harmful, without placing woodworkers' use of them in any quantitative context, and without any evidence that the likely substitutes are any less harmful.

   Edited 12/13/2003 12:07:49 AM ET by Uncle Dunc

1. 
   hammer1 | Dec 14, 2003 08:05am | #38

   Uncle Dunc on the back of many of our cans and bottles are one of three words mandated by Federal law. They are Caution, Warning, Danger. These mean the following:

   Caution: one ounce to one pint may be fatal or harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin by an adult 180 pound man.

   Warning: one teaspoon to one ounce may be fatal or harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin by an adult 180 pound man.

   Danger: a taste to a teaspoon may be fatal or harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin of an adult 180 pound man.

   Don't ask me how they came up with this criteria but there it is. Many of the products woodworkers use are petro-chemicals which to some degree or other emit VOC's. These are the greenhouse bad guys. Of some 70,000 synthetic chemicals that we find in our homes and work places only about 600 have been tested for carcinogins etc. These facts and many others concerning hazardous materials, including Amonia, can be viewed at the following website.

   http://www.cleaningpro.com/toxic.cfm

2. 
   leehold | Dec 13, 2003 04:30am | #36

   Uncle Dunc:  Right on! What a pleasure to read some common sense once in a while. PS. I'm 80 and sawdust hasn't killed me yet.  Lee

18. 
    Midnight | Dec 15, 2003 12:47am | #39

    Reading this thread last night musta got to me... spent an hour this morning cleaning my blades and router bits. I use a solvent based on orange oil; light spray, leave 10 mins to soak then apply elbow grease to suit. A light buff with some steel wool took care of a few rust spots.... Came up like new.

    Mike Wallace

    Stay safe....Have fun